Downtown South (Sunrail/Amtrak, SODO, Orlando Health, Lymmo, Orange/Michigan Avenues)

[orlandoguy]

Is it possible this could still be planned to be a Foxtail? It’s not super close to the Orange/Michigan-ish location ...

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, orlandoguy said:

Is it possible this could still be planned to be a Foxtail? It’s not super close to the Orange/Michigan-ish location ...

Possible, but I don't think that is the plan.

Two weeks ago I jokingly told my girlfriend that I thought it would be a med pot dispensary and now I think I may have been right. It may be a JV with Foxtail, but it certainly does not have the rough in plumbing to do food service. I drove by this eve and checked it out- nothing in the permit box (they're all electronic nowadays). 

[popsiclebrandon]

Foxtail new owners are developers so I think we see most new Foxtails go into plazas they are developing to entice tenants.

[aent]

11 hours ago, AmIReal said:

nothing in the permit box (they're all electronic nowadays). 

They're definitely not all electronic... but they're mostly empty except when an inspection is scheduled because so many people steal them these days, and it takes a bit of time to prepare a new one.

[smileguy]

10 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Foxtail new owners are developers so I think we see most new Foxtails go into plazas they are developing to entice tenants.

New owners?  There are rumors of a Foxtail going into a building owned by some of the Graffiti folks.  Did they buy (or buy into) Foxtail?

[popsiclebrandon]

34 minutes ago, smileguy said:

New owners?  There are rumors of a Foxtail going into a building owned by some of the Graffiti folks.  Did they buy (or buy into) Foxtail?

Bought by these guys. Not sure what % but they proudly say they are the owners now on social media.

http://www.centralparcgroup.com/

[smileguy]

3 hours ago, popsiclebrandon said:

Bought by these guys. Not sure what % but they proudly say they are the owners now on social media.

http://www.centralparcgroup.com/

Thanks!

[otowntiger]

On 5/14/2020 at 4:33 PM, jack said:

Nice to see the continuous upgrade down orange ave. It is very much needed. 

Agreed, but it needs to be done right.  I live in the neighborhood behind (east of) this site.  We are a quiet hidden little suburban community with well maintained homes on tree lined streets, some really nice homes on Lake Jennie Jewel.  This development would be a welcome improvement over the crappy retail and apartments and other less than nice rentals in these blocks.  However I think they are being a little too aggressive with the number of residential units that are shooting for in 5 story buildings.  We have enough problems as it is now getting onto and off of Orange at this location - it will be exponentially bad with that many more cars added to the mix.  I know it looks like they want to tie a new entry into the light at Drennen which is certainly helpful but it will still be a huge bottle neck in both directions with this proposal.  Also the obtrusive and imposing 5 story garage and apartment buildings jammed right up next to the aforementioned nice sf homes is not going to be very compatible without at least some step back, transition.  

On 5/14/2020 at 10:02 PM, JFW657 said:

I took a Google Street View tour of the streets involved off of Orange Ave.

Even though the existing structures back there are nothing special, it's gonna be a shame to see that shady oasis get mowed down and turned into a barren dirt field, then replaced with the typically ugly, repetitive generic crapitecture these things always turn out to be.

I hate to keep harping on the same subject, but if they at least keep some of the really big old oaks back in there, I wouldn't dislike it so much.

Agreed.   As mentioned in the post just above I live in this neighborhood and I very much want to see them try to save some of those huge beautiful, likely historic live oaks.  Of course one plan I saw doesn't do that.    Some of the homes in this area are also historic.  a half dozen or more are over 100 years old.   And yes, we don't need any more crapitecture around here. 

[Jernigan]

I’m on board with these comments.   BluRock frustrates me - having developed Lucky’s Corner, the Wawa and car wash across the street, Waters Edge at Holden and Gatlin and how this they really have been inconsistent.  At some point you’d think they’d be interested in a good approach just for their own legacy.  
 

For this area a simple Main Street design with up to 3 stories or so should suffice - easily stepping down into townhomes and then the existing residences.  That’s the transect in SoDo which is much more urban.

Edited June 30, 2020 by Jernigan

[codypet]

On 6/23/2020 at 7:32 AM, aent said:

They're definitely not all electronic... but they're mostly empty except when an inspection is scheduled because so many people steal them these days, and it takes a bit of time to prepare a new one.

Steal what?  The permits?  Why?

[JFW657]

4 hours ago, otowntiger said:

Agreed, but it needs to be done right.  I live in the neighborhood behind (east of) this site.  We are a quiet hidden little suburban community with well maintained homes on tree lined streets, some really nice homes on Lake Jennie Jewel.  This development would be a welcome improvement over the crappy retail and apartments and other less than nice rentals in these blocks.  However I think they are being a little too aggressive with the number of residential units that are shooting for in 5 story buildings.  We have enough problems as it is now getting onto and off of Orange at this location - it will be exponentially bad with that many more cars added to the mix.  I know it looks like they want to tie a new entry into the light at Drennen which is certainly helpful but it will still be a huge bottle neck in both directions with this proposal.  Also the obtrusive and imposing 5 story garage and apartment buildings jammed right up next to the aforementioned nice sf homes is not going to be very compatible without at least some step back, transition.  

Agreed.   As mentioned in the post just above I live in this neighborhood and I very much want to see them try to save some of those huge beautiful, likely historic live oaks.  Of course one plan I saw doesn't do that.    Some of the homes in this area are also historic.  a half dozen or more are over 100 years old.   And yes, we don't need any more crapitecture around here. 

Personally, I hope it never happens. 

3 hours ago, Jernigan said:

I’m on board with these comments.   BluRock frustrates me - having developed Lucky’s Corner, the Wawa and car wash across the street, Waters Edge at Holden and Gatlin and how this they really have been inconsistent.  At some point you’d think they’d be interested in a good approach just for their own legacy.  

For this area a simple Main Street design with up to 3 stories or so should suffice - easily stepping down into townhomes and then the existing residences.  That’s the transect in SoDo which is much more urban.

 Good one!!!!! 

My guess is, the only legacy companies like that are interested in is raking in as many $$$$$$$ as they possible can.  

 

2 hours ago, codypet said:

Steal what?  The permits?  Why?

Could be any number of reasons from punk kids doing it just to be destructive or out of boredom, to people doing small residential jobs they didn't permit but want to make it look like they have one so their neighbors won't report them. 

[AndyPok1]

So I've been going for walks lately.  Almost entire north, simply because... well, walking south sucks.  Gotta cross Michigan, cross Pineloch, and then you're basically forced to make a giant loop because of the lakes.  The other day I went south.  I had no idea Southern Oaks was so.... suburban.  It depressed me.  We're 2.5 miles from the city center and there's an HOA suburban community.

The thing that made me the most mad, is one of those mediocre "ORANGE IT GREAT TO LIVE IN SODO" signs were in some yards.  Screw off.  The SoDo Main Street has literally the worst marketing and social media I haven't seen (to their credit, they haven't banned me yet unlike Bungalower and Wadeview Park when I tell them they are bad and need to do better to serve the community).  Moreover, when you're in a car-centric suburban neighborhood, you don't get to claim any part of a main street district.

Edited June 30, 2020 by AndyPok1

[codypet]

14 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

So I've been going for walks lately.  Almost entire north, simply because... well, walking south sucks.  Gotta cross Michigan, cross Pineloch, and then you're basically forced to make a giant loop because of the lakes.  The other day I went south.  I had no idea Southern Oaks was so.... suburban.  It depressed me.  We're 2.5 miles from the city center and there's an HOA suburban community.

The thing that made me the most mad, is one of those mediocre "ORANGE IT GREAT TO LIVE IN SODO" signs were in some yards.  Screw off.  The SoDo Main Street has literally the worst marketing and social media I haven't seen (to their credit, they haven't banned me yet unlike Bungalower and Wadeview Park when I tell them they are bad and need to do better to serve the community).  Moreover, when you're in a car-centric suburban neighborhood, you don't get to claim any part of a main street district.

How long was that walk?  Did you end up walking along Fern Creek and the tornado alley?  I agree with you on the Southern Oaks thing.   The Curry Ford Main St District has a similar problem with suburban neighborhoods being just south of Curry Ford and a more organically grown grid system to the north.   But devils advocate neighborhoods like Belair which is what?  a mile from downtown is also a car centric suburb.  Even Lake Davis, Cherokee, Como, DSW, Colonialtown and Audubon are car centric.  They're in close proximity and walkable, but you'll find missing sidewalks, bad crosswalk locations.  Things you'd find in a HOA style neighborhood, just without the Cul-de Sacs. 

[spenser1058]

4 hours ago, codypet said:

How long was that walk?  Did you end up walking along Fern Creek and the tornado alley?  I agree with you on the Southern Oaks thing.   The Curry Ford Main St District has a similar problem with suburban neighborhoods being just south of Curry Ford and a more organically grown grid system to the north.   But devils advocate neighborhoods like Belair which is what?  a mile from downtown is also a car centric suburb.  Even Lake Davis, Cherokee, Como, DSW, Colonialtown and Audubon are car centric.  They're in close proximity and walkable, but you'll find missing sidewalks, bad crosswalk locations.  Things you'd find in a HOA style neighborhood, just without the Cul-de Sacs. 

Keep in mind Southern Oaks was started in the ‘70’s when the whole concept of “urban” was barely a glimmer in anyone’s eye in Orlando. It was also developed by the Carusos, who tend to be conservative on development in any case.

Edited July 1, 2020 by spenser1058

[aent]

18 hours ago, JFW657 said:

Could be any number of reasons from punk kids doing it just to be destructive or out of boredom, to people doing small residential jobs they didn't permit but want to make it look like they have one so their neighbors won't report them. 

I didn't even think of the last one, but other reasons I've seen/heard are people curious to what is being done, but don't want to sit there looking through it and risking getting in trouble, subcontractors losing/forgetting their copy of the plans and see it as harmless to "borrow" the set in the permit, espionage from competitors, etc...

[jack]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:19 PM, AndyPok1 said:

So I've been going for walks lately.  Almost entire north, simply because... well, walking south sucks.  Gotta cross Michigan, cross Pineloch, and then you're basically forced to make a giant loop because of the lakes.  The other day I went south.  I had no idea Southern Oaks was so.... suburban.  It depressed me.  We're 2.5 miles from the city center and there's an HOA suburban community.

The thing that made me the most mad, is one of those mediocre "ORANGE IT GREAT TO LIVE IN SODO" signs were in some yards.  Screw off.  The SoDo Main Street has literally the worst marketing and social media I haven't seen (to their credit, they haven't banned me yet unlike Bungalower and Wadeview Park when I tell them they are bad and need to do better to serve the community).  Moreover, when you're in a car-centric suburban neighborhood, you don't get to claim any part of a main street district.

That is a long walk. I know a few folks in Southern Oaks. They like being close to the city and still have a decent sized house. Now, they all send their kids to private school so there is a downside. 

On 6/30/2020 at 3:55 PM, JFW657 said:

My guess is, the only legacy companies like that are interested in is raking in as many $$$$$$$ as they possible can.  

Could be any number of reasons from punk kids doing it just to be destructive or out of boredom, to people doing small residential jobs they didn't permit but want to make it look like they have one so their neighbors won't report them. 

Nothing wrong with making money. Besides, some People like these designs. 

The permits are placed on site for the unscheduled code enforcement etc. that shows up unannounced. 

[JFW657]

18 minutes ago, jack said:

Nothing wrong with making money. Besides, some People like these designs. 

The permits are placed on site for the unscheduled code enforcement etc. that shows up unannounced. 

Nobody said there was anything wrong with making money.

But making money is no justification when they fail to keep in mind that they have some responsibility to the community to build developments that are not generic crap surrounded by asphalt parking deserts which necessitate the mowing down of decades old trees and totally destroy the feel of the old neighborhoods they encroach on.

And honestly, I don't think I've ever met people who "like" bland, generic commercial developments. 

My guess is that most people don't even think about them one way or the other because of the unremarkable way they look and how they blend in with all the rest of the boring crap that gets slapped up nowadays. The only people who think about them at all are probably be the people who have to work or do business in them. 

[AndyPok1]

On 7/1/2020 at 8:00 AM, codypet said:

How long was that walk?  Did you end up walking along Fern Creek and the tornado alley?  I agree with you on the Southern Oaks thing.   The Curry Ford Main St District has a similar problem with suburban neighborhoods being just south of Curry Ford and a more organically grown grid system to the north.   But devils advocate neighborhoods like Belair which is what?  a mile from downtown is also a car centric suburb.  Even Lake Davis, Cherokee, Como, DSW, Colonialtown and Audubon are car centric.  They're in close proximity and walkable, but you'll find missing sidewalks, bad crosswalk locations.  Things you'd find in a HOA style neighborhood, just without the Cul-de Sacs. 

Yeah, went down Delaney which changes to Osceola and then into Southern Oaks to Gatlin to Fern Creek and back.  Agreed about BelAir.  But that's like 2 streets.  

It was largely the biggest problem trying to find a house.  Realtors base things on zip codes by and large, and while Delaney/Lake Davis is more desirable/closer to downtown/part of 32806, it isn't walkable.  I'd argue its still urban though.  There's just something about... I dunno.  I can't put my finger on it what feels different besides the Cul-de Sacs, but there's something.

[Jernigan]

Still amazed that this didn’t have to be brought up to the street.

It sure does look like a Foxtail but I can’t imagine them having 2 that close on the same side of the street. 

[Gtothree2748]

On 6/30/2020 at 5:19 PM, AndyPok1 said:

So I've been going for walks lately.  Almost entire north, simply because... well, walking south sucks.  Gotta cross Michigan, cross Pineloch, and then you're basically forced to make a giant loop because of the lakes.  The other day I went south.  I had no idea Southern Oaks was so.... suburban.  It depressed me.  We're 2.5 miles from the city center and there's an HOA suburban community.

The thing that made me the most mad, is one of those mediocre "ORANGE IT GREAT TO LIVE IN SODO" signs were in some yards.  Screw off.  The SoDo Main Street has literally the worst marketing and social media I haven't seen (to their credit, they haven't banned me yet unlike Bungalower and Wadeview Park when I tell them they are bad and need to do better to serve the community).  Moreover, when you're in a car-centric suburban neighborhood, you don't get to claim any part of a main street district.

Although not urban, Southern oaks is still in the Sodo “area” - so that’s basically downtown living for Orlando’s standards.

Regardless, it’s still refreshing to see people support their nearest Main Street district. The real problem is when people move into an area and ignore their neighbors/community, just to commute to Disney springs or the mall to spend their money.

As members of the SoDo community, we should welcome our neighbors who are realistically, biking distance to a lot of SoDos most popular establishments. The “screw off” mentality seems counter productive when trying to build a marketable Main Street community. The more support the better, even if the support is coming from a traditionally un urban area. 

 

[Jernigan]

All that means is that when the Downtown South Main Street Program was smaller they were eager to collect $25 residential memberships from as many people as possible and/or socialites from Southern Oaks wanted to be on the Board of Directors but didn’t qualify otherwise.

[nite owℓ]

TD Bank construction update:

 

On 6/2/2019 at 10:37 PM, Jernigan said:

Big upgrade on the horizon for Orange Ave at Page.

[spenser1058]

The Canadians are coming! The Canadians are coming! Hopefully, Justin Trudeau will stop in *swoons*.

[jgardnerucf]

11 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Still amazed that this didn’t have to be brought up to the street.

It sure does look like a Foxtail but I can’t imagine them having 2 that close on the same side of the street. 

No way in heck without a drivethru.  It'd make a heck of cash only sub shop though.

[spenser1058]

11 hours ago, Jernigan said:

All that means is that when the Downtown South Main Street Program was smaller they were eager to collect $25 residential memberships from as many people as possible and/or socialites from Southern Oaks wanted to be on the Board of Directors but didn’t qualify otherwise.

Given the number of FFO’s in Southern Oaks, I can’t imagine they’d be left out.