Downtown South (Sunrail/Amtrak, SODO, Orlando Health, Lymmo, Orange/Michigan Avenues)

[JFW657]

I have my doubts as to the popularity of the whole Greenwise concept.

I think the whole "going green" thing might work in the areas of construction and technology, but I also think that people just want to be able to grocery shop for what they're used to. If they want something organic or non-GMO or whatever the term "green" implies re: food (the natural color of most vegetables notwithstanding), I think they'd prefer to be able to just grab it off the shelf where they normally  shop and not have to go to a separate store to buy it.

If it's true that Publix is letting the Greenwise stores "die on the vine" as was suggested, then it's probably indicative of them coming to the realization that it was a miscalculation on their part to begin with.  

[nite owℓ]

On 1/29/2021 at 12:22 PM, JFW657 said:

I have my doubts as to the popularity of the whole Greenwise concept.

I think the whole "going green" thing might work in the areas of construction and technology, but I also think that people just want to be able to grocery shop for what they're used to. If they want something organic or non-GMO or whatever the term "green" implies re: food (the natural color of most vegetables notwithstanding), I think they'd prefer to be able to just grab it off the shelf where they normally  shop and not have to go to a separate store to buy it.

If it's true that Publix is letting the Greenwise stores "die on the vine" as was suggested, then it's probably indicative of them coming to the realization that it was a miscalculation on their part to begin with.  

It pretty much comes down to avoiding conventional items entirely (depending on how rigid your standards are). I wouldn't shop in a regular Publix if I had the option of going to a Greenwise Publix across the street - but we make these concessions due to the lack of availability/convenience. Having a dedicated natural grocery store takes away temptation and minimizes errors in purchases. If I want to buy organic or all-natural, I don't want to constantly examine the ingredient list of every single product (which is what I have to do in regular stores).

It's not just limited to food, it's also body products, detergents, cleaning products, air fresheners, clothing, bedding, furniture, etc. Some conventional products claim to have "whole" or "natural" ingredients to get away with advertising that on the label, but still contain other no-no ingredients. Also, natural items in regular stores are limited while entire aisles are dedicated to conventional products with questionable preservatives, artificial flavors/colors, GMO ingredients, etc. This is why places like Earth Fare are nice because whatever items you threw into your cart would not contain ingredients on their "Boot List". Whole Foods also has an ingredient ban list as well but I'm talking about stores near downtown. Due to a lack of convenient access and laziness, I'm not as strict with my grocery shopping as I used to be but I still manage to eke out whatever limited selections exist in Walmart & Target. I'm definitely not 100% where I'd like to be, but it doesn't hurt to try to make conscious purchases.

Some of us were raised to eat healthy (organic preferred) and monitor ingredient lists - it's not a fad for some people. For example, growing up we were eating things like Kashi cereals back when they had pictures of old people on the box before they reinvented their image lol. Had to explain to friends that we didn't have things like Lucky Charms in the house...

As I mentioned before, it's Publix's MO to have 2 regular stores next to each other but that never stopped me from holding out hope for a Greenwise instead (especially considering it was a Lucky's Market).

Edited January 30, 2021 by nite owℓ

[Jernigan]

It still doesn’t make a lot of sense.  What’s the square foot difference in the two stores?   It’s not like they’ll be clones.  

[JFW657]

7 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

It pretty much comes down to avoiding conventional items entirely (depending on how rigid your standards are). I wouldn't shop in a regular Publix if I had the option of going to a Greenwise Publix across the street - but we make these concessions due to the lack of availability/convenience. Having a dedicated natural grocery store takes away temptation and minimizes errors in purchases. If I want to buy organic or all-natural, I don't want to constantly examine the ingredient list of every single product (which is what I have to do in regular stores).

It's not just limited to food, it's also body products, detergents, cleaning products, air fresheners, clothing, bedding, furniture, etc. Some conventional products claim to have "whole" or "natural" ingredients to get away with advertising that on the label, but still contain other no-no ingredients. Also, natural items in regular stores are limited while entire aisles are dedicated to conventional products with questionable preservatives, artificial flavors/colors, GMO ingredients, etc. This is why places like Earth Fare are nice because whatever items you threw into your cart would not contain ingredients on their "Boot List". Whole Foods also has an ingredient ban list as well but I'm talking about stores near downtown. Due to a lack of convenient access and laziness, I'm not as strict with my grocery shopping as I used to be but I still manage to eke out whatever limited selections exist in Walmart & Target. I'm definitely not 100% where I'd like to be, but it doesn't hurt to try to make conscious purchases.

Some of us were raised to eat healthy (organic preferred) and monitor ingredient lists - it's not a fad for some people. For example, growing up we were eating things like Kashi cereals back when they had pictures of old people on the box before they reinvented their image lol. Had to explain to friends that we didn't have things like Lucky Charms in the house...

As I mentioned before, it's Publix's MO to have 2 regular stores next to each other but that never stopped me from holding out hope for a Greenwise instead (especially considering it was a Lucky's Market).

No reason to have to examine the ingredient list if they had the word  GREENWISE  right on the label in big, bold green letters.

And why not have all their "green" or organic products together in one well marked section of the store?

I have the feeling most people just aren't as much into the whole "green" concept as you and some others might be when it comes to their groceries and household items. At least not enough to make these markets profitable everywhere. 

 

[AmIReal]

7 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

No reason to have to examine the ingredient list if they had the word  GREENWISE  right on the label in big, bold green letters.

And why not have all their "green" or organic products together in one well marked section of the store?

I have the feeling most people just aren't as much into the whole "green" concept as you and some others might be when it comes to their groceries and household items. At least not enough to make these markets profitable everywhere. 

 

I don't know... Wholefoods, Spouts, the resurgence of the original Earth Fare... I think there is a pretty sizable market- I just think Publix is a grocery store and only a grocery store and doesn't know how to (or doesn't care to) cater to sub-markets (Which is fine btw, others will). My SO has been the primary shopper in the family for 20 years and she hasn't been in a Publix or any of their primary competitors since I've known her. Like @nite owℓ it is not just about the food items, but everything that comes into the house. While you are right this is not a large part of the consumer market, it does seem to be a large enough segment to generate $billions on the edges.

17 minutes ago, JFW657 said:

No reason to have to examine the ingredient list if they had the word  GREENWISE  right on the label in big, bold green letters.

Btw, she chuckled at that comment... 

[nite owℓ]

13 hours ago, JFW657 said:

No reason to have to examine the ingredient list if they had the word  GREENWISE  right on the label in big, bold green letters.

No, that's how they trick you. You're missing my point:

20 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

Also, natural items in regular stores are limited while entire aisles are dedicated to conventional products...

The selections are limited. You might not be picky, but I'm sure you still have your preferences & not just throw any old brand into your cart. Next time you're in Publix, check out their GreenWise line. Also, it's not that simple because Greenwise can vary from 70% to 95% organic and not 100% (among other things) so it depends on how stringent you want to be with certain items and your personal preference about how they taste:

1) Greenwise meats are fed 100% vegetarian diet, but if they're fed GMO grains then it kinda defeats the purpose, so it's easier to go with a brand that is 100% organic. So just because something is "green" doesn't mean they went the extra mile to take advantage of what consumers are looking for - some companies just want to slap on a green label to cash in on the movement.

2) Based on the recipe, Greenwise peanut butter (which might be labeled as organic, but most likely not 100% organic) might not taste as good as the organic Maranatha brand peanut butter (made is with 100% organic ingredients). Certain food items make more sense to go the extra mile to avoid contaminants - and because the recipe is better.

[JFW657]

10 minutes ago, nite owℓ said:

No, that's how they trick you. You're missing my point:

The selections are limited. You might not be picky, but I'm sure you still have your preferences & not just throw any old brand into your cart. Next time you're in Publix, check out their GreenWise line. Also, it's not that simple because Greenwise can vary from 70% to 95% organic and not 100% (among other things) so it depends on how stringent you want to be with certain items and your personal preference about how they taste:

1) Greenwise meats are fed 100% vegetarian diet, but if they're fed GMO grains then it kinda defeats the purpose, so it's easier to go with a brand that is 100% organic. So just because something is "green" doesn't mean they went the extra mile to take advantage of what consumers are looking for - some companies just want to slap on a green label to cash in on the movement.

2) Based on the recipe, Greenwise peanut butter (which might be labeled as organic, but most likely not 100% organic) might not taste as good as the organic Maranatha brand peanut butter (made is with 100% organic ingredients). Certain food items make more sense to go the extra mile to avoid contaminants - and because the recipe is better.

What I don't follow you on is this....

If a product in a regular Publix says Greenwise on the label, isn't it the exact same product they would sell in a Greenwise Publix store?

If you trust the Greenwise sign on the front of the building, why can't or don't you trust the product label that says the same thing just because it's in a regular Publix?

Wouldn't they be the exact same product?

[jgardnerucf]

Good grief, just drive to hyde park or dumpy part of lakeland and first hand it.  ...or take the $10 Amtrak and uber it.

[nite owℓ]

23 hours ago, JFW657 said:

What I don't follow you on is this....

If a product in a regular Publix says Greenwise on the label, isn't it the exact same product they would sell in a Greenwise Publix store?

If you trust the Greenwise sign on the front of the building, why can't or don't you trust the product label that says the same thing just because it's in a regular Publix?

Wouldn't they be the exact same product?

While regular Publix's carry an assortment of Greenwise items, Greenwise Markets DO NOT ONLY sell Greenwise items - they also sell other natural/organic brands too. Regular Publix's have LIMITED natural/organic/Greenwise options dedicated to one measly shelf vs entire aisles of conventional products for the rest of folks who don't care about that stuff. In a Greenwise Market, the entire store is my oyster vs one shelf in a regular Publix.

Basically Greenwise Market is kind of like the Publix spinoff of a Lucky's Market, Fresh Market, etc. Again, some of us prefer to avoid conventional grocery stores if given the option so that's why I'd rather not go into a regular Publix if there is a Greenwise Market right across the street. https://www.supermarketnews.com/store-design-construction/5-things-know-about-publixs-new-greenwise-market

You're making my head hurt lol. I think you're thinking about this from the "majority" perspective rather than putting yourself in the shoes of the "minority". As a gay person, yes I can go to a straight bar/club and meet another gay person, but if I don't want to pick through every dude to find out which team they play for I'd rather just go to a LGBTQ+ bar/club and meet someone who I find attractive AND share things in common with. Alternatively, you can go to a gay bar/club and meet straight women but you're probably better off going to a straight bar/club to find what you're looking for. Please, just let me have my gay grocery store lol.

Edited January 31, 2021 by nite owℓ

[spenser1058]

This isn’t the first time Publix has gone all in on a concept and then chickened out. They did the same with Pix.

They were also early in on delivery and then dropped out. When they realized they had to do it, they turned it over to Instacart. When customer service is your big deal, turning that over to a third party is questionable.

They also dropped the ball on Crispers.

The irony is Mr. George built Publix on innovation (first a/c grocery, first automatic doors, etc.) They were also early in on bar code technology and ATM’s in stores, etc.

They also did pioneering work on private label and then dropped the ball to rivals like Kroger and now Target which is hitting a home run with Good & Gather.

For the last 15 years or so, they’ve gotten somewhat stodgy on innovation. One bright spot has been their digital technology on Publix.com and social media. They were late to the party but have been making up time.

 

[AmIReal]

Blurock has submitted the master plan for the 6 acre assemblage a little south of Pineloch. The plan is in 4 phases and calls for 143 units residential in phase 1. Next phase includes 82,000 feet of medical office fronting Orange is next and future land use of low intensity residential on the back of the property.

https://www.growthspotter.com/news/gs-news-southern-oaks-20210131-npsxatnoo5fhvjbnp7l4mulcsu-story.html

[Jernigan]

Not sure how I feel about that rendering.  Is it not brought to the street on Orange?

[Gtothree2748]

8 hours ago, Jernigan said:

Not sure how I feel about that rendering.  Is it not brought to the street on Orange?

It implies that the commercial/office buildings will front orange while the residential buildings will front magnolia in the next block in. 

[AmIReal]

1 hour ago, Gtothree2748 said:

It implies that the commercial/office buildings will front orange while the residential buildings will front magnolia in the next block in. 

Yes, as you can see from the official site plan, apparently rendered by an associates 5 year old, the office building does front Orange Ave.

http://blurockcommercial.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/southern-oaks-sitemap.pdf

[nite owℓ]

Photo Updates: TD Bank & Foxtail (near Lake Copeland) are pretty much complete. I also threw in a few random pics of SODO after-dark.

 

The Delaney:

OH Center for Proton Therapy:

SODO ABC:

Foxtail (S. Orange & Crystal Lake):

 

I wish more businesses fronting S Orange would properly utilize accent lighting - it really improves the ambiance (and security) of the neighborhood.

 

[AmIReal]

 

16 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I wish more businesses fronting S Orange would properly utilize accent lighting

Nice shots. I assume that red glow on Delaney's is from OH across the street and not accent lighting on the hotel.

Both of the Foxtail's look nice. They're not big, notable projects, but they stand out as looking better than everything else around them.

[nite owℓ]

17 hours ago, AmIReal said:

 

Nice shots. I assume that red glow on Delaney's is from OH across the street and not accent lighting on the hotel.

Both of the Foxtail's look nice. They're not big, notable projects, but they stand out as looking better than everything else around them.

Yes, the red glow is from OH and it illuminates the vicinity at night (the solid color varies each night). At least the Delaney Hotel has the green accent lighting at the top - better than nothing.

I was a little worried the new Foxtail location would be a bit underwhelming since it's not pulled up to the street, but the landscaping and building facade kinda gives it a boutique look. Yes, both Foxtails look nicer than the surrounding cookie cutter developments. I wonder if S Orange qualifies for the City's facade improvement grant? If so, the city should promote the program to the eyesore properties.

Honorable mention: the Orlando Credit Union. No glowy accent lighting so I didn't snap a night photo. I remember  @spenser1058 poked fun at the wood paneling a while back, but IMO the building looks a lot better than what it used to:

[AmIReal]

2 hours ago, nite owℓ said:

I remember  @spenser1058 poked fun at the wood paneling a while back, but IMO the building looks a lot better than what it used to

That manufactured wood treatment is being used a lot, both commercially and for residential. It stands up to direct sun pretty well, even here in FL.

[codypet]

8 minutes ago, AmIReal said:

That manufactured wood treatment is being used a lot, both commercially and for residential. It stands up to direct sun pretty well, even here in FL.

I don't know what Lucky's did on their buildings but that wood aged horribly the 7 months they were open.  That includes the E Colonial location that was facing North.  North!  That should have had more staying power.

Edited February 24, 2021 by codypet

[aent]

20 hours ago, AmIReal said:

That manufactured wood treatment is being used a lot, both commercially and for residential. It stands up to direct sun pretty well, even here in FL.

I worked on a project a few years back with it, and it faded pretty badly in the sun. I ran into a manufacturers rep a few years later, told him about it and had pictures on my phone, showed him, he laughed and said "yup, thats our product!"

The manufactured wood treatment is cheap, but a lot of it really doesn't stand up to the sun. And its hard to know which products will with that kind of thing.

[jack]

Non wood products work the best. Fiber Cement comes to mind. 

[Jernigan]

What happened to that mural in the TD bank rendering?

[AmIReal]

10 hours ago, aent said:

I worked on a project a few years back with it, and it faded pretty badly in the sun. I ran into a manufacturers rep a few years later, told him about it and had pictures on my phone, showed him, he laughed and said "yup, thats our product!"

The manufactured wood treatment is cheap, but a lot of it really doesn't stand up to the sun. And its hard to know which products will with that kind of thing.

I used the same product as the bank did on facing some planters on a beach facing property. It has only been about 16 months, but they look the same as the day I put them in. Another example is the Miller's Ale House at Bumby or the Hourglass Community House. These are not fiber cement products, but extruded and pressed composite planks- sort of like the Trex decking systems.

[Jernigan]

Photo of the Grant Street townhomes and 2 photos of the new Venue townhomes on Jersey.  The first one up looks really out of place right now.

Sorry that they posted in this order - the Grant Street one is the photo in the middle...

Edited February 27, 2021 by Jernigan

[IAmFloridaBorn]

Orlando health area is quietly becoming dense.

 

and what is the lot directly north of EarthFare or what was EarthFare going to be ? It’s fenced off in black.