Scaleybark Station Area Projects

[kermit 3671]

Since the original Scaleybark thread is locked its time for a new one:

Demo has begun on the South 21 site. The "Available' signs are still up so I suspect this is just the standard, end of year property tax devaluation demolition.

I was most excited about the Grocery store anchored Crossland project where the library currently sits -- unfortunately there are no visible signs of movement there (and it appears they are still leasing the commercial space in the old strip center).

grodney had a great suggestion (and renderings!) for the new Knights ballpark on the West side of the street

[HopHead 1121]

I like Grodney's suggestion for the new ballpark near the Scaleybark station. This actually uses what I was hoping for in the LYNX extension up to University City. I've fallen off the bandwagon for the Knights building the stadium uptown and think it would be better served in a location near a light rail stop south or north of uptown. The park and ride parking spaces at Scaleybark would probably need to double up, to handle the stadium (I'm assuming there has to be some kind of minimum on parking spaces?).

[Urbanity 307]

I'm a huge fan of the Scalebark stadium idea. Near 77 and LRT and just south of all the Southend developments and like Grodney shows - one helluva view of the city skyline.

[Sabaidee 6]

I forgot what the original stadium called that burnt down in South End before the Charlotte Knights moved to Fort Mill, but I think somewhere else besides Uptown would be better. The Uptown proposal does not allow room for future expansions.

[southslider 588]

At the rate the Knights are moving, I'd rather see the stadium along the BLE on the Intermodal Yards property. This would also help catalyze development between Uptown and Noda. And with the precedent of Amelie's and nearby Noda nightlife, I think this area would make for a great 24/7 "Wrigleyville."

[aceboogie 2]

That would be neat to see a ballpark in the area. I live on Scaleybark so that would make it more interesting.

[dubone 1008]

The intermodal yards property has plans, and is not big enough for a stadium. It is planned to be part of the BLE for storing LRV's near uptown and as a light maintenance facility.

http://charmeck.org/city/charlotte/cats/planning/BLE/involvement/meetings/Documents/2010-09-Meeting/BLE_Sept10_CB_1.pdf

[southslider 588]

^The light-maintenance/storage facility may be on the chopping block of cost-cutting items for BLE. As for the Yards' size, how cool would it be to have the Stadium partially bridge over the actual railroad yards (not just built on the future City-owned trucking yards). A higher elevation would maximize views of the Uptown skyline, plus bridge the physical and psychological gap between NoDa/Optimist Park and North Tryon.

Edited December 6, 2010 by southslider

[kermit 3671]

^The light-maintenance/storage facility may be on the chopping block of cost-cutting items for BLE. As for the Yards' size, how cool would it be to have the Stadium partially bridge over the actual railroad yards (not just built on the future City-owned trucking yards). A higher elevation would maximize views of the Uptown skyline, plus bridge the physical and psychological gap between NoDa/Optimist Park and North Tryon.

The downside of this location for a ball park is the sun would be in the batter's eyes if the field was oriented towards the skyline.

[dubone 1008]

The Knights refused plenty of alternate locations that were better than the ones being discussed. And now they have a lease for the land they want. We will have to wait and see whether they'll be willing to even bother relocating when the economy perks up. But in the meantime, I'm guessing the only place reasonable to expect the Knights is Fort Mill.

[hambone931 181]

It looks like Pappas Properties has delayed the start of their project again.

http://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/blog/queen_city_agenda/2011/01/more-delays-for-scaleybark-road.html

[kermit 3671]

It looks like Pappas Properties has delayed the start of their project again.

http://www.bizjourna...ybark-road.html

although Crossland is still talking about theirs on the other side of the street. It is just talk though....

http://www.charlotte...l#ixzz1BLl1rRQe

They say they are working on a 36 acre parcel they are calling Crosland Greens

Crosland is building homes suitable for a variety of incomes and has commitments for at least 20,000 square feet in a proposed 60,000-square- foot office building. The retail plan calls for a grocery store, restaurants and other services that support a neighborhood's everyday needs.

A full line grocery store would really make a difference in this neighborhood.

[hambone931 181]

I came across these city documents while searching for updates on this topic. They are a few years old but I haven't seen them posted anywhere.

http://www.charmeck.org/city/charlotte/planning/AreaPlanning/TransitStationAreaPlans/SouthCorridor/Documents/Scaleybark_Plan_Adopted.pdf

http://www.fta.dot.gov/documents/Day_1_-_IIc_-_Charlotte_TOD_-_Votaw.pdf

[hambone931 181]

Article in the Charlotte Observer today about this project....

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2011/08/03/2499993/downturn-stalls-scaleybark-project.html

[southslider 588]

I wonder if the City had picked the BofA proposal instead, would the development have already been built by now. The linked slideshow two posts back summarizes the BofA proposal as having an earlier completion date and faster ROI than the Pappas-led Scaleybark Partners proposal. And with BofA as a partner, maybe financing could have been more quickly secured, even now in the post-recession economy.

[kermit 3671]

I'll echo Southslider and say that I think Pappas should have been cut loose (and subsidy recouped) after the second deadline extension request. By stating that the residential that they were contracted to build may be delayed for nearly 10 years they have severely limited chances for spillover commercial development (like the grocery store the area so badly needs) as well as making the area less attractive for the march of apartments south of New Bern.

The Pappas project has gone from an ephemeral showpiece to an albatross for the station -- I want a do over.

[atlrvr 1536]

I'll point out that BofA decided not to close on the purchase of the 2 NoDa mills that it was planning on teaming up to redevelop, so they don't exactly have a perfect track record either. It's hard to use a tax-credit when you lose billions of dollars a year. They always have the option of selling the tax-credits, but the market for the last several years has been really out of whack, where the cash generated from selling these credits hasn't been enough to complete the financing. BofA being involved really wouldn't have changed that aspect to any material degree.

The state awards these credits based on scorecards of every project that applies. Without knowing the exact details of the project, my guess is that they would have to target even lower income folks to significantly improve their projects score/likelihood of winning the tax credits. This of course makes it harder to finance since their revenues are lower.

In short, it is extremely extremely hard to do affordable housing in areas with high land costs such as adjacent to a light rail station. This is because developers don't recieve tax-credits to offset land costs, just building costs. Places around the country where it has been successful, local governments have contributed a lot more (even more discounted land cost, 0% interest loans, etc.)

[Urbanity 307]

Tara Servatius is making the claim (via benign implication) that it was light rail itself that killed Scaleybark development .

I guess she never heard of the recession? I guess the Light rail is what certain people always dreamed of - the ultimate boogeyman!

[kermit 3671]

Tara Servatius is making the claim (via benign implication) that it was light rail itself that killed Scaleybark development .

I guess she never heard of the recession? I guess the Light rail is what certain people always dreamed of - the ultimate boogeyman!

Yes Tara created quite a large libertarian strawman when she discussed the Pappas project. Her insistence that the light rail has failed to create any development (after admitting she rides frequently) is simply laughable. We need to pull together some new property tax revenue figures from the blue line once the new apartments are online.

[kermit 3671]

Interestingly there is major site work and grading underway on the Pappas parcel (the parcel to the north of the park and ride, it runs all the way to Clanton) AND the parcel just to the south of the park and ride (where the strip center was located -- I believe that this is also owned by Pappas).

Whats up? The Observer article from earlier in the month didn't indicate this was likely.

Edited August 26, 2011 by kermit

[hambone931 181]

http://charmeck.org/...nstruction.aspx

The link above has a timeline and info for this project.

"The first phase of the village will be the construction of a new streetscape along the west side of South Boulevard between Clanton Road and Freeland Lane.  The completed streetscape project will include a bicycle lane, on-street parking, new lighting and landscaping, creating a pedestrian friendly environment along this portion of South Boulevard.

Work is scheduled to begin in mid-August and should conclude by late December 2011."

[kermit 3671]

^Thanks!

[rjp212 245]

Came across the brochure for the project at Scaleybark by Pappas Properties. Has a few renderings and site plans. Gotta say though, the buildings are kind of ugly.

http://www.pappasproperties.com/documents/ScaleybarkBrochure.pdf

[kermit 3671]

^ I dunno, I prefer these to the three story fake stucco buildings I originally imagined....

Reminds me a bit of "near Northeast" around union station in DC.

[rjp212 245]

The site plan is great IMO, just the all gray design is rather cold and depressing. I imagine it being steel and cinder-block...