Greenville Annexations

[distortedlogic]

^^

Good points on Cola city limits. Even if you subtract Fort Jackson, it would still be about 52 sq mi, Gville is only 30. Cola is also aided by USC, maybe 25-30K in high density. Gville has no college that is within the city limits, unless BJU is, that would only be about 3-4k I think. Do Fort Jackson soldiers get counted in Cola city numbers? How many are there?

[GvilleSC]

9 hours ago, distortedlogic said:

^^

Good points on Cola city limits. Even if you subtract Fort Jackson, it would still be about 52 sq mi, Gville is only 30. Cola is also aided by USC, maybe 25-30K in high density. Gville has no college that is within the city limits, unless BJU is, that would only be about 3-4k I think. Do Fort Jackson soldiers get counted in Cola city numbers? How many are there?

Yes- soldiers stationed at Fort Jackson would be counted. Here’s why I found online about their numbers: 

More than 3,500 active duty Soldiers and their 12,000 Family members are assigned to the installation and make this area their home. About one third of those live in on-post housing.

[vicupstate]

11 hours ago, distortedlogic said:

^^

Good points on Cola city limits. Even if you subtract Fort Jackson, it would still be about 52 sq mi, Gville is only 30. Cola is also aided by USC, maybe 25-30K in high density. Gville has no college that is within the city limits, unless BJU is, that would only be about 3-4k I think. Do Fort Jackson soldiers get counted in Cola city numbers? How many are there?

The SCDC/Harbison Forest properties are probably another 8-12 sq miles as well.  Soldiers on base on April 1 of the census year would be included in Columbia's count. The 1970 census number was significantly higher due to the high number of soldiers on base during the Vietnam War.  

[vicupstate]

From 1849 until 1960 the Charleston city limits had not changed. The city was 8 sq miles and did not extend off of the peninsula. J. Palmer Gaillard was elected Mayor in late 1959 on a platform to grow the city's boundaries.  The city had been hemorrhaging population in a big way as development was largely in the city's suburbs.  In May and again in November of 1960, a series of annexation elections resulted in the city more than doubling in size as a huge swath of West Ashley was annexed. A large doughnut hole that bordered the Ashley River remained outside the city and as part of the St. Andrews PSD.  Today that area is a swiss-cheese patchwork of dozens of small doughnut holes.  The city was able to offer sewer services to homes that were on septic tanks.  St. Andrews provided Fire Service and garbage pickup and recreation but not sewer.  More recently, by annexing newer development west of the PSD, they city has effectively boxed in the PSD to a confined area and slowly chips away at that via piecemeal annexations.  

In July 1973 the city made its first annexation on James Island. The James Island PSD provided sewer service and garbage pickup and fire services.  Most residential areas on James Island stayed outside the city but the city did annex much of the island.  In 1983 the first annexation was made on John's Island. 

In 1990, Charleston County passed the Local Option Sales Tax , which lowered property taxes for all county residents but more so for those living in cities. This made property taxes lower in the city that in the PSDs in most cases.  This brought a wave of new annexations including virtually every apartment complex not already in the city. At the time using street ROW could be used for contiguity. This has since been removed as an option.  Initially Charleston was the only large county with the tax and this advantage for annexation.  Later Florence, Sumter and Richland counties enacted the tax and have also seen more annexations from it.  

Under Charleston mayors Palmer Gaillard (1959-1975) and Joe Riley (1975-2015), annexation has been a priority and pursued by any means available. In 1991 Daniel Island was annexed it what could only be called unusual circumstances. That opened the way for a major expansion in the Cainhoy, area as well.  

In summary, like Greenville, Charleston has had to contend with PSDs.  But by being aggressive and proactive, they have largely overcome that  obstacle. Greenville was unique in that it was all but forbidden to annex the mill villages that ran along the city's western edge, but that didn't and doesn't apply to the rest of the city (ie the Eastside).   Of course, the mills are mostly gone now and all of them have sold off the housing stock.  Therefore, those areas are options for annexation now. However, many of those same areas are of lower value and it would not always make financial sense for the city to annex them.   

So while Charleston may have had an easier environment to start with, the lion share of their success with annexation has just been their own doing. 

[Horatio Nelson]

34 minutes ago, vicupstate said:

From 1849 until 1960 the Charleston city limits had not changed. The city was 8 sq miles and did not extend off of the peninsula. J. Palmer Gaillard was elected Mayor in late 1959 on a platform to grow the city's boundaries.  The city had been hemorrhaging population in a big way as development was largely in the city's suburbs.  In May and again in November of 1960, a series of annexation elections resulted in the city more than doubling in size as a huge swath of West Ashley was annexed. A large doughnut hole that bordered the Ashley River remained outside the city and as part of the St. Andrews PSD.  Today that area is a swiss-cheese patchwork of dozens of small doughnut holes.  The city was able to offer sewer services to homes that were on septic tanks.  St. Andrews provided Fire Service and garbage pickup and recreation but not sewer.  More recently, by annexing newer development west of the PSD, they city has effectively boxed in the PSD to a confined area and slowly chips away at that via piecemeal annexations.  

In July 1973 the city made its first annexation on James Island. The James Island PSD provided sewer service and garbage pickup and fire services.  Most residential areas on James Island stayed outside the city but the city did annex much of the island.  In 1983 the first annexation was made on John's Island. 

In 1990, Charleston County passed the Local Option Sales Tax , which lowered property taxes for all county residents but more so for those living in cities. This made property taxes lower in the city that in the PSDs in most cases.  This brought a wave of new annexations including virtually every apartment complex not already in the city. At the time using street ROW could be used for contiguity. This has since been removed as an option.  Initially Charleston was the only large county with the tax and this advantage for annexation.  Later Florence, Sumter and Richland counties enacted the tax and have also seen more annexations from it.  

Under Charleston mayors Palmer Gaillard (1959-1975) and Joe Riley (1975-2015), annexation has been a priority and pursued by any means available. In 1991 Daniel Island was annexed it what could only be called unusual circumstances. That opened the way for a major expansion in the Cainhoy, area as well.  

In summary, like Greenville, Charleston has had to contend with PSDs.  But by being aggressive and proactive, they have largely overcome that  obstacle. Greenville was unique in that it was all but forbidden to annex the mill villages that ran along the city's western edge, but that didn't and doesn't apply to the rest of the city (ie the Eastside).   Of course, the mills are mostly gone now and all of them have sold off the housing stock.  Therefore, those areas are options for annexation now. However, many of those same areas are of lower value and it would not always make financial sense for the city to annex them.   

So while Charleston may have had an easier environment to start with, the lion share of their success with annexation has just been their own doing. 

This is a thought I had recently, that the constraint of not being able to expand its borders as much forced the city of Greenville to double down on its downtown. That we would have sprawled out (more).

Does anyone else think if we run the history of the city of Greenville again without the constraint of the ring of mills (Not allowing themselves to be annexed) on its city borders it would not have been as successful?

Edited February 14 by Horatio Nelson

[GvilleSC]

Thanks for the comprehensive look at the topic of annexation in our state peer cities, @vicupstate. Very informative and interesting! 

[vicupstate]

This is a graph from Councilman Russell Stall's paper, which is upthread.

 

[Horatio Nelson]

6 hours ago, vicupstate said:

This is a graph from Councilman Russell Stall's paper, which is upthread.

 

I didn't realize that Columbia and Charleston had 3.8-4.5 times the land area of Greenville but only less than 2 times the population.

[rabbit seisin]

On 2/14/2023 at 1:16 PM, Horatio Nelson said:

Does anyone else think if we run the history of the city of Greenville again without the constraint of the ring of mills (Not allowing themselves to be annexed) on its city borders it would not have been as successful?

 

12 hours ago, Horatio Nelson said:

I didn't realize that Columbia and Charleston had 3.8-4.5 times the land area of Greenville but only less than 2 times the population.

For a small southern city, Greenville is pretty densely populated. All of its charm and accolades come from the scale and density of its downtown and the immediately adjoining neighborhoods. That said, in my view the biggest opportunity areas for growth are still within the city limits.  Hopefully the nodes-and-corridors strategy imagined by the new zoning master plan will bear fruit. A more integrated, urban fabric across the entire municipal footprint would take Greenville to the next level.

Places like Sans Souci, City View, and Judson are natural targets for annexation due to proximity and population density, but I would want a thorough assessment of the costs and benefits first. Unfortunately, infrastructure in many of those neighborhoods is severely decayed and it would require major city resources to bring it into this century. As others have noted upthread, the county has been largely unable to meet the needs of these lower-and-working-class areas for decades. 

[GvilleSC]

3 hours ago, rabbit seisin said:

 

For a small southern city, Greenville is pretty densely populated. All of its charm and accolades come from the scale and density of its downtown and the immediately adjoining neighborhoods. That said, in my view the biggest opportunity areas for growth are still within the city limits.  Hopefully the nodes-and-corridors strategy imagined by the new zoning master plan will bear fruit. A more integrated, urban fabric across the entire municipal footprint would take Greenville to the next level.

Indeed. I think the City will absolutely see benefits from the nodes and corridors strategy. In a way, we are already seeing the benefits, just without an official named policy on the books. The green line of the Swamp Rabbit Trail alone is going to be a big player in adding further density and tax dollars to the City. 

[apaladin]

Greenville is only considered “small” due to the limitations of its city lmits. App. 350,000 live within 6 miles of doewntown. If Greenville was like Charlotte and had city limits extending out 15-20 miles the population would be close to a half million. The county has 530.000 peeps, still the largest by far. 

[vicupstate]

24 Old Augusta Rd.  .07 acres

650 Executive Center Dr.  2.31 acres  

825-827 Congaree Rd.  10.26 acres

[vicupstate]

No links. The first one is Monaghan Mill. The second one is Woodlawn Cemetary. 

[GvilleSC]

Thanks for posting these. It's great to see Monaghan Mill on the docket. From a brief search, it looks like the building has 190 units. 

I wonder what sort of strategic opportunities Woodlawn potentially opens up? 

[vicupstate]

^^ Really glad to see Monaghan Mill being annexed. That would add about 200 residents +/- to the city's population overnight.   

[gman430]

Edit: delete.

Edited April 5 by gman430

[gman430]

Agenda items are now viewable. Click on the blue area on each agenda item to see the pdf file. 

Edited April 5 by gman430

[vicupstate]

Transit Drive 1.39 acres

201 Prosperity Ave. .49 acres

[vicupstate]

Fork Shoals Road Annexation

.18 acres which provides a 'strip' annexation that would bring contiguity to Donaldson Center. The city and county jointly own Donaldson Center. 

Conwell Street Annexation

1.69 acres that gets the city limits very close to an area of new construction (Martin Row, Taylor Street).