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137 Year Old Historic Saint Andrew's School Slated to be Demolished


GRDadof3

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I have a long history at St. Andrew's -- both my children went there until it closed and I was on the school board for the last five years of the school's existence, including serving as its President for the last 2.5 years there was a school board (a "governance board" was used the last six months).

When Bishop Hurley came to Grand Rapids, one of the first things he did was draw up the plans for Cathedral Square. As a board member, I saw them five years ago, and they absolutely called for the demolition of the school. Whether those were made public or not, I do not know. But removing the school has always been part of the private plan, at the very least. Those plans also called, however, for the building of a new St. Andrew's school on the parking lot just to the northeast of the school's current location. It would be an understatement to say that the Bishop received a cool reception to his plan, at least at the meeting I attended (which included the school board, the foundation board, and other parties connected to the school).

Bishop Hurley indicated that it would take approximately $5 million to build a new school. He proceeded with the first part of his Cathedral Square plans, using the initial money he raised to renovate the southwest corner of Cathedral Square. During this time, pretty much all Catholic elementary schools were struggling, St. Andrew's included. Despite indicating publicly several times that he was committed to having K-12 schools on Cathedral Square (he called it a "Catholic Campus"), and despite the fact that St. Andrew's was unique among the Catholic elementary schools insofar as it was attached to the Cathedral parish, Bishop Hurley did nothing to assist the school. I believe this was a very deliberate move on his part, as allowing the school to fail was much cheaper than either supporting the school in its existing location or, certainly, building a new school across the street.

The Cathedral parish was (and is) in no shape financially to support the school. Despite technically being attached to the Cathedral parish, the parish provided less than 5% of the school's funding on an annual basis. In truth, St. Andrew's was not a parish school -- it was a county school, drawing students from all over Kent County. That is certainly part of what made it unique.

Now that St. Andrew's has closed, the Bishop can proceed with his plan. I have no doubt that the current Rector of the Cathedral parish is not speaking on his behalf, but rather on behalf of the Bishop, when he is making the case to tear down the building. The $3,000 per month cost is a canard. The fact that Seyferth is involved is strong evidence that this is being driven by the Bishop rather than by the Parish.

Now, none of this may have anything to do with the propriety of tearing down St. Andrew's at this time. But we got here through a deliberate plan that was orchestrated over five years.

I will say this: if the Bishop was being truthful -- and there is plenty of evidence that he was not, is not, and will not -- then there will be a K-8 school on Cathedral square in the future. If that is the case, then this building deserves historic status, as it should be allowed to return to its rightful historical place as the Catholic elementary school in downtown Grand Rapids.

It also struck me that in hiring Seyferth, they were girding themselves for battle. Why else would you hire a PR firm for a demolition request?

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Let's see if I can scoop the Press and other media...

City Commission voted to not establish a historic study committee. (Along gender lines, FWIW)

Probably 50 comments from the public, extensive use of the 2-minute timer. The room was packed with folks connected to the parish, and several times they broke into applause and/or cheers.

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... and now to the wrecking ball it goes:

http://www.mlive.com/news/grand-rapids/index.ssf/2011/03/with_little_drama_city_planner.html

Let's see if I can scoop the Press and other media...

City Commission voted to not establish a historic study committee. (Along gender lines, FWIW)

Probably 50 comments from the public, extensive use of the 2-minute timer. The room was packed with folks connected to the parish, and several times they broke into applause and/or cheers.

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And the prairie of pavement and pavers continues its growth... ;)

I really do hope that building this plaza surrounded by parking lots brings the Catholic Church back from its downward spiral, and makes that area a hot destination for urban dwellers and hospital visitors.

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I really do hope that building this plaza surrounded by parking lots brings the Catholic Church back from its downward spiral, and makes that area a hot destination for urban dwellers and hospital visitors.

Indeed.

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  • 1 month later...

Here's a thought and I know this is thinking way outside the box but how about waiting for this project to be completed before passing judgement? And why is it that St. Mary's and the Catholic Diocese seem to get slammed on a regular basis on this site while Spectrum is given a pass? If there were a crimes against good architecture court, Spectrum should have been convicted long ago. Excluding the VanAndel Institute, there's not a single building on the Spectrum Downtown campus that doesn't make me cringe when I go by. And all this righteous indignation about St. Andrew's being torn down; where was it when the Hilltop Party Store had its date with the wrecking ball?

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Here's a thought and I know this is thinking way outside the box but how about waiting for this project to be completed before passing judgement? And why is it that St. Mary's and the Catholic Diocese seem to get slammed on a regular basis on this site while Spectrum is given a pass? If there were a crimes against good architecture court, Spectrum should have been convicted long ago. Excluding the VanAndel Institute, there's not a single building on the Spectrum Downtown campus that doesn't make me cringe when I go by. And all this righteous indignation about St. Andrew's being torn down; where was it when the Hilltop Party Store had its date with the wrecking ball?

I agree that a lot of Spectrum's architecture barely deserves the term "architecture." But where the heck was the Hilltop Party Store?

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. . . But where the heck was the Hilltop Party Store?

So soon the sacred places of my youth are forgotten. If it is the place I'm thinking of it was on Michigan Street hill at Bostwick or maybe it was Barclay. In 1969 I'd walk there from my girlfriend's apartment on Crescent in order to purchase a bottle or two of the fine Cask brand wine (bottled Paw Paw Michigan - buy local) with the screw on top, 89 cents a bottle.

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And all this righteous indignation about St. Andrew's being torn down; where was it when the Hilltop Party Store had its date with the wrecking ball?

Well that depends - what's at the party store's location now? Did a new building go up, or is it a surface parking lot and/or plaza? Architecture ain't what got our goats about St. Andrew's; it's that it's not being replaced by anything of use, beautiful or cringey.

It was easier to be righteously indignant when we thought we could stop it, but I guess you're right; at this point we may as well make the best of it.

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Here's a thought and I know this is thinking way outside the box but how about waiting for this project to be completed before passing judgement? And why is it that St. Mary's and the Catholic Diocese seem to get slammed on a regular basis on this site while Spectrum is given a pass? If there were a crimes against good architecture court, Spectrum should have been convicted long ago. Excluding the VanAndel Institute, there's not a single building on the Spectrum Downtown campus that doesn't make me cringe when I go by. And all this righteous indignation about St. Andrew's being torn down; where was it when the Hilltop Party Store had its date with the wrecking ball?

The reason why they get slammed is because neither seems capable of much more than demolishing buildings, spinning tons of BS about their development plans, and turning almost every square inch of land they can get their hands on into parking lots or flat expanses of concrete.

This cartoonish representation of an old world plaza is as bad as the one in front of city hall. And I can assure you this one will be as little used as that one has been the past 40 years. It's going to be bordered by parking lots and little else, because almost all of the useful land around it is owned by these two entities which again have no real idea how to build in an urban area other than to make places to park the cars of their 9 to 5 staff.

Spectrum Health, for whatever opinion of their architecture you can come up with, is actually filling out the land that they use with actual development. They do have very few surface lots, but the momentum is definitely in the direction of filling in those spaces, and it seem like they do it far faster. They have also spawned other projects that are also filling in other parcels close by.

The lose of a forgettable liquor store, and the 5&10 store that I loved as a kid, was a trivial price to pay for moving things forward today.

In 10 years they have rebuilt an entire part of the city and gained national recognition. St. Mary's and the church have demolished much of what was around them and now look like a joke.

What could these two groups, which are slow and seem always short on cash, possible do to rebuild all that they have clear away in a time frame that is not measured in decades?

I'm expecting E. Beltline architecture, parking lots, and "plazas" that are off-limits to the public. so far they have not disappointed.

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So soon the sacred places of my youth are forgotten. If it is the place I'm thinking of it was on Michigan Street hill at Bostwick or maybe it was Barclay. In 1969 I'd walk there from my girlfriend's apartment on Crescent in order to purchase a bottle or two of the fine Cask brand wine (bottled Paw Paw Michigan - buy local) with the screw on top, 89 cents a bottle.

NE corner of Coit and Michigan IIRC. I rode by there at night on the way home from Chr High on the city bus, couldn't legally buy at that time :whistling: Boone's Farm was cheaper IIRC :D

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The reason why they get slammed is because neither seems capable of much more than demolishing buildings, spinning tons of BS about their development plans, and turning almost every square inch of land they can get their hands on into parking lots or flat expanses of concrete.

This cartoonish representation of an old world plaza is as bad as the one in front of city hall. And I can assure you this one will be as little used as that one has been the past 40 years. It's going to be bordered by parking lots and little else, because almost all of the useful land around it is owned by these two entities which again have no real idea how to build in an urban area other than to make places to park the cars of their 9 to 5 staff.

Spectrum Health, for whatever opinion of their architecture you can come up with, is actually filling out the land that they use with actual development. They do have very few surface lots, but the momentum is definitely in the direction of filling in those spaces, and it seem like they do it far faster. They have also spawned other projects that are also filling in other parcels close by.

The lose of a forgettable liquor store, and the 5&10 store that I loved as a kid, was a trivial price to pay for moving things forward today.

In 10 years they have rebuilt an entire part of the city and gained national recognition. St. Mary's and the church have demolished much of what was around them and now look like a joke.

What could these two groups, which are slow and seem always short on cash, possible do to rebuild all that they have clear away in a time frame that is not measured in decades?

I'm expecting E. Beltline architecture, parking lots, and "plazas" that are off-limits to the public. so far they have not disappointed.

Spectrum Health has much deeper pockets than St. Mary's with a who's who of local benefactors with even deeper pockets - perhaps that's why they get things done faster. And while you've got a bunch of big, shiny new buildings at Spectrum, it's all very insular. My reference to the Hilltop was mostly tongue-in-cheek and while I can appreciate what Spectrum has done for Grand Rapids and realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder, that entire campus, again with the exception of the VanAndel Institute, leaves me cold - HDVCH being a perfect example of a whole bunch of money thrown at a project that could have been the crown jewel in GR's skyline but instead, turned out to be something Donald Trump probably would have found garish. I'm going to put my money on St. Mary's and the Diocese - while it may take them a little longer, I think their vision will be the better of the two when all is said and done.

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Spectrum Health has much deeper pockets than St. Mary's with a who's who of local benefactors with even deeper pockets - perhaps that's why they get things done faster. And while you've got a bunch of big, shiny new buildings at Spectrum, it's all very insular. My reference to the Hilltop was mostly tongue-in-cheek and while I can appreciate what Spectrum has done for Grand Rapids and realize beauty is in the eye of the beholder, that entire campus, again with the exception of the VanAndel Institute, leaves me cold - HDVCH being a perfect example of a whole bunch of money thrown at a project that could have been the crown jewel in GR's skyline but instead, turned out to be something Donald Trump probably would have found garish. I'm going to put my money on St. Mary's and the Diocese - while it may take them a little longer, I think their vision will be the better of the two when all is said and done.

Well said. A great city needs public gathering places. As much as I'm happy that Spectrum is investing in the city, their buildings with walkways in the sky and lack of pedestrian features are not designed to support neighborhood retail growth, pedestrian activity or diverse development.

St. Mary's and the Archdiocese are consistently and successfully promoting an urban neighborhood design near Division and Wealthy. The two organizations have, in fact, been building lately in case you haven't noticed – the Lack's Cancer Center, the Hauenstein Center, the Physician's Building Expansion, the Cathedral Square Building, St. Luke's renovations. In addition, the American Cancer Society Hope Lodge, the new Heartside Health building and a significant renovation at the Iowa apartments are part of a well thought out plan to create a walking, living neighborhood.

From a purely urban planning perspective, the Division, Wealthy, Cherry and State Street neighborhood is striving to be much more of an urban community than closed off glass buildings will ever hope to achieve. And that is o.k., because that is not Spectrum's intention. But it is the stated desire of St. Mary's and the Archdiocese. Those who live in Downtown Grand Rapids appreciate the difference.

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I know that I am late to this party, but I really didn't see the beauty of St. Andrew's school. I frankly like the idea of the east (liturgical west) front of St. Andrew's Cathedral being open to a plaza. The school may have been historic, but years of remodeling ensured that it looked not like an 1870s school but rather one built around 1915. Coit School on Belknap Hill is a much better example of this kind of architecture.

This issue reminds me a little about the controversy surrounding the old Economics Building at the University of Michigan. The core of that building was an 1850s chemistry lab, one of the first research buildings at any American university. A fire around 1980 gutted the building, and there was much sturm und drang about whether it should be torn down. I was convinced that demolition would be a great tragedy until a friend pointed out that the building had been expanded so many times that the original lab was essentially buried. The building was demolished and the resulting open area is quite lovely today, giving a more open expanse as one looks northwest through the West Building arch.

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Well said. A great city needs public gathering places. As much as I'm happy that Spectrum is investing in the city, their buildings with walkways in the sky and lack of pedestrian features are not designed to support neighborhood retail growth, pedestrian activity or diverse development.

St. Mary's and the Archdiocese are consistently and successfully promoting an urban neighborhood design near Division and Wealthy. The two organizations have, in fact, been building lately in case you haven't noticed – the Lack's Cancer Center, the Hauenstein Center, the Physician's Building Expansion, the Cathedral Square Building, St. Luke's renovations. In addition, the American Cancer Society Hope Lodge, the new Heartside Health building and a significant renovation at the Iowa apartments are part of a well thought out plan to create a walking, living neighborhood.

From a purely urban planning perspective, the Division, Wealthy, Cherry and State Street neighborhood is striving to be much more of an urban community than closed off glass buildings will ever hope to achieve. And that is o.k., because that is not Spectrum's intention. But it is the stated desire of St. Mary's and the Archdiocese. Those who live in Downtown Grand Rapids appreciate the difference.

Huh? I must be thinking of a different Saint Mary's area. I'll give you the Hope Lodge and the Diocese renovation of that old warehouse, but not much else is "urban" in scale or scope. Maybe the massive new parking ramp at a very important corner? The Advantage Health addition is being put on in the back in the middle of the parking lot. The new Heart of the City Health Center or whatever it's called is primarily lifted up half a level and surrounded by big block walls. It's alright, I guess. I really don't mean to be a jerk, but I just don't see anything but parking lots.

Is Saint Mary's and/or the Diocese involved in the Iowa Apartments renovation?

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Huh? I must be thinking of a different Saint Mary's area. I'll give you the Hope Lodge and the Diocese renovation of that old warehouse, but not much else is "urban" in scale or scope. Maybe the massive new parking ramp at a very important corner? The Advantage Health addition is being put on in the back in the middle of the parking lot. The new Heart of the City Health Center or whatever it's called is primarily lifted up half a level and surrounded by big block walls. It's alright, I guess. I really don't mean to be a jerk, but I just don't see anything but parking lots.

Is Saint Mary's and/or the Diocese involved in the Iowa Apartments renovation?

I agree entirely... I wanted to find a picture and Photoshop best buy onto one of the huge parking lots and call it urban but, im too lazy (and im thousands of miles away so i cant get the pic..)

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Let's compare the areas in a couple of years. The difference in purpose will be obvious then to those who cannot see the vision now. I, and many who are stakeholders in these neighborhoods, have had extensive discussions with the forces driving these changes. I'm confident that anyone interested in a lively urban neighborhood would rather live near St. Mary's than Spectrum in five years from now. Time will be the judge.

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Let's compare the areas in a couple of years. The difference in purpose will be obvious then to those who cannot see the vision now. I, and many who are stakeholders in these neighborhoods, have had extensive discussions with the forces driving these changes. I'm confident that anyone interested in a lively urban neighborhood would rather live near St. Mary's than Spectrum in five years from now. Time will be the judge.

You win MiGuyz. It's a fabulous area bursting with life. It's a model neighborhood for the Midwest. Moving on.

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