GRDadof3

1415 Lake Drive - Kingsley Bldg - Redevelopment

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tSlater    114

I think I remember hearing that Sheldon selling their land is like Azzar selling a property.

...He did finally sell the Kendall building *shrug*

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x99    365

I think I remember hearing that Sheldon selling their land is like Azzar selling a property.

...He did finally sell the Kendall building *shrug*

 

I think that's about right.  The only solution I could see would be paying Sheldon money for the building, then basically giving them an equivalent amount of space for dirt cheap rent.

 

This is a good project to see.  So far as parking, the more the merrier.  It is an absolute necessity here, and I hope there is at least 1.5 spaces per residential unit with adequate for commercial.  I would not be opposed to another layer of deck, or even a Parkmatic carousel stacker (lower cost, and stupid cool).  Neighborhood streets are already at capacity.  I'll have to withhold judgment on the design until I see the balcony and window details. How well this works from an aesthetic perspective will depend hugely on that.  It would be amazing to see balcony designs that fit the art deco design of the building.  Fortunately, this is not in a historic district, and Bazzani has always been concerned about making things look good, so I think there is real potential here to make this project look cohesive and really tie it together well so that the building looks like it was always intended to be like this.

 

The added market rate density should continue to do good things for Eastown, and I think it will help to cement Eastown's reputation as quite possibly the best neighborhood in GR. 

Edited by x99

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EastownLeo    140

Currently the parking ramp is being asked for other consideration by the surrounding neighbors.  The current design directs residents into the parking structure from Robinson road, and consumer parking on Genesee.   Neighbors already have to deal with increased traffic expecting to be able to go around the block but finding Hampton a one way road.  Daily 10 - 30 people go the wrong way on Hampton Ave.(one way)

 

The Increase of traffic because of the commercial parking should be shifted to Robinson road, and better traffic and speed control created on that road to deal with it.  Also the amount of spaces required for that many residential spaces in the building is not supported by the proposed parking structure.  There is already issues of street parking because all of the Postal workers park on the streets during the day.  Residents are considering street parking permits to help with this issue.

 

Residents would like to see increased parking spaces and also a better solution to focus in and out traffic to the roads that can handle it.

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x99    365

Residents would like to see increased parking spaces and also a better solution to focus in and out traffic to the roads that can handle it.

 

The Increase of traffic because of the commercial parking should be shifted to Robinson road, and better traffic and speed control created on that road to deal with it.  Also the amount of spaces required for that many residential spaces in the building is not supported by the proposed parking structure.  There is already issues of street parking because all of the Postal workers park on the streets during the day.  Residents are considering street parking permits to help with this issue.

 

All very valid concerns, and they should be enormous developer concerns as well.  People who live/work/shop in that building won't be able to use the surrounding streets if they go to a permit system, and I foresee substantial chunks of Eastown moving to a permit system very soon.  I don't see how all of the streets near those two Orion projects don't go permit as well. 

 

You won't see me shedding any tears if these developers eventually find themselves in a tight spot because they underplanned parking based on transit fantasies.  Almost all of the existing two units in Eastown have at least two cars per unit.  These developers are putting in one space per unit, or less.  It's absurd. 

 

Bazzani and Orion better get in queue to shell out for one of these babies:  recent_Doha.jpg

Edited by x99

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GRDadof3    1830

All very valid concerns, and they should be enormous developer concerns as well.  People who live/work/shop in that building won't be able to use the surrounding streets if they go to a permit system, and I foresee substantial chunks of Eastown moving to a permit system very soon.  I don't see how all of the streets near those two Orion projects don't go permit as well. 

 

You won't see me shedding any tears if these developers eventually find themselves in a tight spot because they underplanned parking based on transit fantasies.  Almost all of the existing two units in Eastown have at least two cars per unit.  These developers are putting in one space per unit, or less.  It's absurd. 

 

Bazzani and Orion better get in queue to shell out for one of these babies:  recent_Doha.jpg

 

Wow, you guys are so anti-urban.  :P  Is this car parking planet now? 

 

(Told ya so)

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EastownLeo    140

The biggest issue I see is that they often forget the true situation of Parking and Houses in Eastown.   Most houses have one stall garages, with 2-5 cars per household because of college houses and 2 car families.  Meaning that half, if not all cars are parked on the street,  Not to mention that many houses in the surrounding areas do not have garages for parking because they have half lots.  Many houses on the west side of Hampton do not have a garage or even a driveway.  When you have a large business like the Post office that creates workday parking shortages, how can you solve that problem?  Its one thing to create parking in the destinations of work like downtown, but when creating residential situations there needs to be room for those residents to park.

 

I hope this gets resolved, because I feel this is not that last residential development to be created in the area and will only show the future of problems unless they are addressed.

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x99    365

Wow, you guys are so anti-urban. 

:P

 Is this car parking planet now? 

 

(Told ya so)

 

Heh.  Eastown Leo is dead on.  What our planning betters too easily forget is that these are not and were never intended to be "urban" areas in the traditional sense.  To their half-acre-lot modern suburban brains they might look like it, but they aren't.  These areas were platted and developed as mixed-use suburbs, they continue to function as such, and currently have no mass-parking solutions more common to true "urban" areas.  It's like calling EGR "urban".  It isn't.  It is suburban by any realistic measure. 

To elaborate on my prior comment, I am sure these developers have their own parking studies and such, but I've got what I'll call my "look out the window" study.  When living in Eastown, I had six duplexes whose backyards I could see on a daily basis.  Each duplex had three to four cars in the back (if they would fit), and typically one or two more on the street.  Since the street is already rammed full, Bazzani realistically needs a bare minimum of two spaces per residential unit, plus commercial parking if this isn't going to be a complete mess.  If these are going to be college student rentals with occupancy of more than two people per unit, they need to provide about 1.25-1.5 spaces per bedroom, plus commercial.  Heresy though it may be, the zoned minimum parking requirements aren't adequate for much other than low income housing (and even that is questionable).  So if you provide only that level of parking, and angry residents take away all of your "free" street parking with permit systems, guess what you just built yourself...

This could be a fantastic project for Eastown, and given Bazzani's track record, I am confident he will respond to the parking concerns out of concern for his neighbors, if not his own bottom line.

Edited by x99

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joeDowntown    664

I don't think I'd go as far as calling Eastown "suburban" (EGR, I'd agree is a suburb). Most of the houses were built in the early 1900's, right at the start of automobile transportation. Sure, they were never built for 4 cars (nor were the houses built to have 3-4 apartments). Not disagreeing with a potential parking problem, but I'd say Eastown was built around streetcars, not automobiles.

I still think we're starting to face pretty "normal" parking situations that other cities have had for years. We just want our 2.5 parking spots with our 2.5 kids. :)

Joe

 

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jas49503    62

I don't want to burst anyone's pro parking rhetoric, but when I lived in Chicago, we didn't have a garage or any off street parking. Pretty much nobody did, or it was very limited ( similar to eastown). I don't know how wide the lots were, I'm guessing 35-40 feet. mixed in with this was the occasional business(bar, convienience store, etc). Parking really wasn't an issue. Every available parking spot on the street was taken, and sometimes you had to walk a bit to your parking spot but it didn't impede development at all. The neighborhood is almost Unrecognizable now compared to when I lived there (in a good way). If the developers create a mess, well, they did it to themselves and there the ones that are going to lose.  The single family homes will be ok. They may have to walk a couple of hundred feet but that never killed anyone. 

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GRDadof3    1830

I don't want to burst anyone's pro parking rhetoric, but when I lived in Chicago, we didn't have a garage or any off street parking. Pretty much nobody did, or it was very limited ( similar to eastown). I don't know how wide the lots were, I'm guessing 35-40 feet. mixed in with this was the occasional business(bar, convienience store, etc). Parking really wasn't an issue. Every available parking spot on the street was taken, and sometimes you had to walk a bit to your parking spot but it didn't impede development at all. The neighborhood is almost Unrecognizable now compared to when I lived there (in a good way). If the developers create a mess, well, they did it to themselves and there the ones that are going to lose.  The single family homes will be ok. They may have to walk a couple of hundred feet but that never killed anyone. 

 

I don't know if you've heard, but this ain't Chicago. Sheesh. You can actually live in Chicago without a car. 

 

Edited by GRDadof3

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EastownLeo    140

Like I said,  The major issue is the traffic patterns of the Future residents and commercial parking.  The neighborhood group wants to see the Parking garage flipped, so that residents enter and leave on Genesee.  We would like to see commercial traffic enter and leave from the Robinson road entrance.  Because of the angle of lake drive, there would be a large amount of quick cut across traffic, across Genesee that would threaten pedestrians and on coming traffic.

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jas49503    62

I don't want to burst anyone's pro parking rhetoric, but when I lived in Chicago, we didn't have a garage or any off street parking. Pretty much nobody did, or it was very limited ( similar to eastown). I don't know how wide the lots were, I'm guessing 35-40 feet. mixed in with this was the occasional business(bar, convienience store, etc). Parking really wasn't an issue. Every available parking spot on the street was taken, and sometimes you had to walk a bit to your parking spot but it didn't impede development at all. The neighborhood is almost Unrecognizable now compared to when I lived there (in a good way). If the developers create a mess, well, they did it to themselves and there the ones that are going to lose.  The single family homes will be ok. They may have to walk a couple of hundred feet but that never killed anyone. 

 

I don't know if you've heard, but this ain't Chicago. Sheesh. You can actually live in Chicago without a car. 

 

that is one very superficial interpretation. Except that we lived 10 blocks from the nearest L, so most transportation needs were met via bus ornperr personal auto. While it is possible to live in Chicago without a car, you could say the same things out Grand Rapids if you are willing to utilize the bus. Everyone I know or have met in Chicago actually drives a car that they own ( this is a lot as i grew up in the city and still have immediate family that live in the city. )

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EastownLeo    140

There is a dumpster in the Kingsley parking lot and It looks like they may have started initial interior demo. Or at least cleaning out the old Kent Records stuff.

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EastownLeo    140

Im still not happy about the parking garage and the poor consideration for traffic flow.  Seeing as I live half a block away, many of us in the neighborhood are very worried about the lack of parking for the density they are looking to fill into this building. It has started the talk of permit parking in the area, and a renewed discussion on the traffic speed an volumes on Robinson Road and neighboring side streets.  There has been a progression toward rental homes being bought by homeowners, so some density has been reduced, but this could create a bigger issue that none are fully aware of yet.  This block specifically gets all of the employees of the post office and other local lake dr. businesses utilizing the side streets for free parking.  Pushing out many residents who often don't have driveways, off street parking, or limited personal parking of their own.  While we are happy to get a larger residential density there are some things that we won't know the impact of until they start moving in.

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thebeerqueer    200
3 hours ago, EastownLeo said:

Im still not happy about the parking garage and the poor consideration for traffic flow.  Seeing as I live half a block away, many of us in the neighborhood are very worried about the lack of parking for the density they are looking to fill into this building. It has started the talk of permit parking in the area, and a renewed discussion on the traffic speed an volumes on Robinson Road and neighboring side streets.  There has been a progression toward rental homes being bought by homeowners, so some density has been reduced, but this could create a bigger issue that none are fully aware of yet.  This block specifically gets all of the employees of the post office and other local lake dr. businesses utilizing the side streets for free parking.  Pushing out many residents who often don't have driveways, off street parking, or limited personal parking of their own.  While we are happy to get a larger residential density there are some things that we won't know the impact of until they start moving in.

These are very similar to the complaints we field from our John Ball Area Neighbors, that live around Bridge St. and Fulton St. Its a very complicated situation. Josh Naramore from the Mobility and Parking Services department has been very helpful with navigating some of these challenges. 

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Morris    3

This is what Mr Ruis, planning commission chairperson, states his position about onsite parking at the December 8 Planning commission meeting...

"Mr. Ruis stated for the record that his preference is to eliminate parking minimums everywhere."

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x99    365
On 12/3/2016 at 10:22 PM, Morris said:

This is what Mr Ruis, planning commission chairperson, states his position about onsite parking at the December 8 Planning commission meeting...

"Mr. Ruis stated for the record that his preference is to eliminate parking minimums everywhere."

.. and I'm completely fine with that as long as they also pass a companion ordinance along the following lines: 

"The occupants of any residential development constructed after the date of this amendatory ordinance for which fewer than 1.5 parking spaces per unit are provided shall be prohibited from utilizing street parking for parking of vehicles from 6PM until 6AM unless such parking consists of specifically designated and developed spaces immediately adjacent to the residential development project.  Any such spaces shall be developed by the developer at the expense of the developer, and shall be protected from traffic by means of a bulb-out.  Any violation of this subsection by an occupant of the residential dwelling shall result in a civil infraction resulting in fine of $25 against the vehicle owner AND the developer."

That would completely solve the "parking problem" as far as I'm concerned.  Build it with no spaces--fine-- just know that it will cost you a pretty penny if you think you're going to siphon off parking from surrounding neighborhoods.  10 "rogue cars" would be about a $7500 a month fine.  

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