A Regional Opportunity Oversight Between Ford Airport and GVSU-Allendale

[Allison Slater]

I don't see how it would. It'd still be a flashing red when no train is present and people could still make the U-turn normally as long as traffic is clear.

[Raildudes dad]

How much of the $3000 was for the rental car for 7 days? Would it have been useful for you if there was a train to the beach? Or even one in the town you were in that could take you to and from the beach and your hotel. I don't know where you went, and maybe a train might not make any sense there, but I'm not sure how you can spend 70+ dollars and parking and several hundred on a rental car and still claim there is "no demand" for public transportation to the airport.

As for you specifically, obviously you probably wouldn't use the train to get to the airport, because you do not live along the corridor where it would run. Using yourself as an example is like saying because people from Naperville don't use the El to get to O'Hare that there is no demand for public transportation to the airport in Chicago. When I lived in Grand Rapids, I did live along the corridor MetroGRKid proposed, and I would use it to get to the airport if his fantasy became reality. I also used to live in Philadelphia, where I walked six blocks to the train every single time I flew somewhere. It was a cheaper and easier alternative to a cab or driving.

And accidents happen even when only cars and other cars mix on roads. Hell, accidents happen when cars are alone on roads. I'm glad you agree that light rail on the Beltline would be awkward, but my point was much more nuanced than that.

Rental car in FL was $198 for 8 days incl all taxes and fees. The condo was in Indian Shores, on the beach 100 footsteps from the water , about 25 miles from Tampa International(1 hour travel time by car, incl 13 miles of freeway) and we think we have congestion here ).

I do live 3 blocks from a Rapid line, I could take the bus to the train in GR to the airport. If the train depends on folks within walking distance, I can guarantee there's not enough demand to warrant it. When you took the train to the airport in Philly , I bet you didn't travel with a family and the required amount of "family" luggage.

Furthermore, your $2 train fare, even $5 fare is heavily subsidized by non-users. There's not $1 of taxpayer money in the airport parking ramp, all paid for by users parking fees (as are the roads by the cars & trucks using it - look for a general fund appropriation for roads in the MI budget, there isn't one).

[Khorasaurus1]

Rental car in FL was $198 for 8 days incl all taxes and fees. The condo was in Indian Shores, on the beach 100 footsteps from the water , about 25 miles from Tampa International(1 hour travel time by car, incl 13 miles of freeway) and we think we have congestion here ).

I do live 3 blocks from a Rapid line, I could take the bus to the train in GR to the airport. If the train depends on folks within walking distance, I can guarantee there's not enough demand to warrant it. When you took the train to the airport in Philly , I bet you didn't travel with a family and the required amount of "family" luggage.

Furthermore, your $2 train fare, even $5 fare is heavily subsidized by non-users. There's not $1 of taxpayer money in the airport parking ramp, all paid for by users parking fees (as are the roads by the cars & trucks using it - look for a general fund appropriation for roads in the MI budget, there isn't one).

Sounds like a fun trip. You're right about families with luggage. With a family, you have different concerns (and luggage) than a student or business traveller or even a couple. That seems like a cheap rental car to me, but I just turned 25 so I'm used to having to pay 20-30 bucks a day just in age penalty fees.

I also think that taking a bus to the train, while possible and likely useful for some trips, is impractical for an airport trip for almost anyone. Someone with more time on their hands would have to do the analysis, but I disagree that there's no demand along the corridor from just people in walking distance. With all the institutions, employers, and dense neighborhoods along the route, there would be plenty of demand. The majority of airport-specific demand would likely come from visitors, rather than Grand Rapidians travelling (although there would be some of them as well). The airport will not be the focus of this service...as I said before, it's just a natural terminus.

I'm with you on cost. The problem with this proposal isn't that no one would ride it. It's that it's way too expensive for the number of riders. GR isn't that big of a city. It needs an expansive and efficient bus system and light rail in some areas, which are more appropriate for a metro this size than a heavy rail subway/el.

Finally, given salt/plow shortages, potholes, F-rated bridges, and complete lack of funds for improvements other than maintenance, I don't think the gas tax is as effective at funding the roads as you do. The idea that roads will pay for themselves through the gas tax forever is outdated.

[Raildudes dad]

Sounds like a fun trip. You're right about families with luggage. With a family, you have different concerns (and luggage) than a student or business traveller or even a couple. That seems like a cheap rental car to me, but I just turned 25 so I'm used to having to pay 20-30 bucks a day just in age penalty fees.

I also think that taking a bus to the train, while possible and likely useful for some trips, is impractical for an airport trip for almost anyone. Someone with more time on their hands would have to do the analysis, but I disagree that there's no demand along the corridor from just people in walking distance. With all the institutions, employers, and dense neighborhoods along the route, there would be plenty of demand. The majority of airport-specific demand would likely come from visitors, rather than Grand Rapidians travelling (although there would be some of them as well). The airport will not be the focus of this service...as I said before, it's just a natural terminus.

I'm with you on cost. The problem with this proposal isn't that no one would ride it. It's that it's way too expensive for the number of riders. GR isn't that big of a city. It needs an expansive and efficient bus system and light rail in some areas, which are more appropriate for a metro this size than a heavy rail subway/el.

Finally, given salt/plow shortages, potholes, F-rated bridges, and complete lack of funds for improvements other than maintenance, I don't think the gas tax is as effective at funding the roads as you do. The idea that roads will pay for themselves through the gas tax forever is outdated.

It was a great vacation, hi temps of 76-85 the last week of February, sunny every day, all day but one morning:thumbsup: Never touched a snow shovel when I got back :thumbsup:

It was a good rate courtesy of "Jen's Cheap Tours", (my daughter who finds the cheapest rates available )- I haven't had to worry about the "youth surcharge" in about 30 years.

Our gas tax situation would be much better if Engler hadn't done the Build MI I, II, III bond programs and Grandholm hadn't done the Jobs Today bond program. They both tried to borrow to prosperity and it didn't work due to the 10 year recession which still isn't over. The first bond payments are coming due and the gas tax isn't enough to pay the bonds and do the road and bridge work required. PA tried borrowing to prosperity it in the 70's when the steel industry left PA, with the same results, a broke highway funding system. It took them many years to get out of that hole (it will take a tax increase in spite of what our legislators say). The gas tax has been fixed at 19 cent per gallon since 1997.

[Khorasaurus1]

It was a great vacation, hi temps of 76-85 the last week of February, sunny every day, all day but one morning:thumbsup: Never touched a snow shovel when I got back :thumbsup:

It was a good rate courtesy of "Jen's Cheap Tours", (my daughter who finds the cheapest rates available )- I haven't had to worry about the "youth surcharge" in about 30 years.

Our gas tax situation would be much better if Engler hadn't done the Build MI I, II, III bond programs and Grandholm hadn't done the Jobs Today bond program. They both tried to borrow to prosperity and it didn't work due to the 10 year recession which still isn't over. The first bond payments are coming due and the gas tax isn't enough to pay the bonds and do the road and bridge work required. PA tried borrowing to prosperity it in the 70's when the steel industry left PA, with the same results, a broke highway funding system. It took them many years to get out of that hole (it will take a tax increase in spite of what our legislators say). The gas tax has been fixed at 19 cent per gallon since 1997.

I think your daughter needs to turn travel planning into a career, if she hasn't already...

Your last paragraph is really interesting and something I hadn't heard about in detail. It also explains the awful conditions of the roads in PA, which feature fewer potholes than ours, but clearly haven't been updated since the 70s. I'm surprised I-76 in Philadelphia still has its interstate designation. (although the fact that it is functionally unusable due to traffic volumes creates demand for their thorough commuter rail system...and now we're back to trains vs. cars again )