Panel recommends CATS tax

[itsjustme3]

Public education is failing in Baton Rouge, just like CATS, I don't see the difference. I know that's one reason why we moved to Prairieville. It's not laughable, its an effective comparison, unless you can tell me the difference in two failing public services that are subsidized by tax payers.

Schools fall under the management of elected officials. Want a better education then you pay for it.

Does CATS fall under the management of elected officials? No. Want a better form of transportation then let the riders pay for it.

[bigbuildings]

Great debate! Here are my thoughts...

@itsjustme2 - You are on point in that this proposed tax increase is outrageous. It is insulting that they would ask for our money to cover this shortfall. CATS needs to prove they can provide services that consumers want - and do it efficiently. Then, if they needed money for one reason or another, maybe then I would consider investing in CATS.

@Antrell - The least oppressive and the most moral form of taxation is a user fee. The people who use the service are the people that pay for the service. This makes the most sense to me. However, when done on a local level - as is the case here - I am not opposed to the majority of voters in a community voting and approving a tax on all of its residents to fund a service that the majority deems to be in the community's best interest. I derived from your comments that you think a public transit system is in our community's best interest. You could be right. I think CATS - as it is currently operating - gives public transit systems a bad name. Proponents of public transit for BR should be against more public (non-user fee) funding to CATS just as much as opponents of public transit. My "No" vote will not be a vote against public transit, it will be a vote against inefficiency, and poor service.

[cajun]

Government waste like this makes me really wonder why I don't cheat on my taxes.

CATS is the most poorly run public transit system I've seen in a long time. I'm indifferent towards public transit, but I'm completely against a bus system with such crappy service.

CATS lost the LSU contract because the students complained for years about them being behind schedule, driving too dangerously, using unfriendly/rude drivers, and the lack of cleanliness of their buses. Now that they've pissed away that source of revenue, they want the taxpayers to allow them to continue wasting money.

Their ridership is low (for a reason!). Their routes are terrible. They can't maintain a schedule. No way I'd support this if I still lived there. Baton Rouge deserves better.

This is not the same as supporting public schools. You actually have the occasional decently performing public school in Baton Rouge.

CATS is widespread failure. The absurdity of the notion that urban problems to this scale could be fixed with higher taxes without any innovative though or effort is why I no longer consider myself "liberal". I'd be open to higher taxes to support programs that I don't use if I had any confidence that my tax dollars wouldn't be wasted like they are with CATS.

[Antrell Williams]

Schools fall under the management of elected officials. Want a better education then you pay for it.

Does CATS fall under the management of elected officials? No. Want a better form of transportation then let the riders pay for it.

That won't generate enough money. It's not like the buses are packed.

Great debate! Here are my thoughts...

@itsjustme2 - You are on point in that this proposed tax increase is outrageous. It is insulting that they would ask for our money to cover this shortfall. CATS needs to prove they can provide services that consumers want - and do it efficiently. Then, if they needed money for one reason or another, maybe then I would consider investing in CATS.

@Antrell - The least oppressive and the most moral form of taxation is a user fee. The people who use the service are the people that pay for the service. This makes the most sense to me. However, when done on a local level - as is the case here - I am not opposed to the majority of voters in a community voting and approving a tax on all of its residents to fund a service that the majority deems to be in the community's best interest. I derived from your comments that you think a public transit system is in our community's best interest. You could be right. I think CATS - as it is currently operating - gives public transit systems a bad name. Proponents of public transit for BR should be against more public (non-user fee) funding to CATS just as much as opponents of public transit. My "No" vote will not be a vote against public transit, it will be a vote against inefficiency, and poor service.

Neither am I, although I'm not a tax payer for Baton Rouge. I'm not saying CATS is necessarily a good investment itself but a good public transit system is and it starts somewhere. They are seriously mismanaged but improvements could be made, I don't see anyone privatizing the system anytime soon.

[itsjustme3]

Hopefully CATS goes bankrupt and that way a new company can come in and try running things a new, different and more efficient way. No more wasting money on CATS.

[itsjustme3]

That won't generate enough money. It's not like the buses are packed.

So property owners have to foot the bill because CATS doesn't have enough riders?

That's like raising sales taxes because not enough people are shopping.

[cajun]

That won't generate enough money. It's not like the buses are packed.

Neither am I, although I'm not a tax payer for Baton Rouge. I'm not saying CATS is necessarily a good investment itself but a good public transit system is and it starts somewhere. They are seriously mismanaged but improvements could be made, I don't see anyone privatizing the system anytime soon.

You seriously want to give them more money even after you admitted to CATS being mismanaged?

At some point, you have to consider that allowing failed programs to go belly up is a better service to your fellow taxpayers than continuing to allow them to be a drain. It allows for the possibility of renewal and replacement.

[bigbuildings]

If CATS does not have enough riders... Why do they need buses? They could use smaller, cheaper, and more fuel efficient vehicles. Then, when a route's ridership grows enough to justify a bus, they could buy a bus.

[Antrell Williams]

You seriously want to give them more money even after you admitted to CATS being mismanaged?

At some point, you have to consider that allowing failed programs to go belly up is a better service to your fellow taxpayers than continuing to allow them to be a drain. It allows for the possibility of renewal and replacement.

They need money to improve or let them fold.

So property owners have to foot the bill because CATS doesn't have enough riders?

That's like raising sales taxes because not enough people are shopping.

That concept happens all the time. Why did they raise the fare last time? Because they don't have enough funds/riders.

[richyb83]

Vote NO on CATS tax

While I understand the purpose, necessity and importance of mass transit in a growing city, this CATS tax plan should be euthanized. Below is my list of issues, questions and objections to the CATS tax and why I will vote no. But let me first say that, on a larger scale, I am disappointed in the lack of leadership on this major proposal and the abandonment of the proper way to handle it. The mayor, Metro Council, Baton Rouge Transit Coalition and CATS board are all responsible.

http://www.businessr...T0201/304029980

[itsjustme3]

No new taxes. Let CATS die. If it really is important then let a private company come in and attempt to make a profit. Dumping more and more of taxpayers money will not change anything. EBR public schools are proof of that.

[Ronald120]

You really think allowing a private company apply a "for-profit" model is really going to improve things?? Ask bus riders on the Westbank in Jefferson Parish if there's been any drastic improvements in service since being taken over by a private company (Veolia Transportation)?

It's bad enough that as the most populous parish in the state and the seat of state government that public transportation is so poorly represented as it is in Baton Rouge, but at least the public has that option. I would hate to see a city with no public transportation option at all. That would really be sad.

[Antrell Williams]

It's bad enough that as the most populous parish in the state and the seat of state government that public transportation is so poorly represented as it is in Baton Rouge, but at least the public has that option. I would hate to see a city with no public transportation option at all. That would really be sad.

People don't like progress. Stagnation at it's finest.

[itsjustme3]

You really think allowing a private company apply a "for-profit" model is really going to improve things?? Ask bus riders on the Westbank in Jefferson Parish if there's been any drastic improvements in service since being taken over by a private company (Veolia Transportation)?

So you actually think that because something doesn't work in Jefferson Parish that it's doomed to fail in Baton Rouge? What if it works in another part of the country???? Oh I guess that wouldn't count because it didn't work in Jefferson Parish and that trumps every other parish or county in the United States. Right?

It's bad enough that as the most populous parish in the state and the seat of state government that public transportation is so poorly represented as it is in Baton Rouge, but at least the public has that option. I would hate to see a city with no public transportation option at all. That would really be sad.

If the CATS tax dies then I'm pretty sure the sun will rise the next day. But if it does pass it will just give residents yet another reason to flee to parishes that don't waste the voters money by throwing money at a failed business.

[itsjustme3]

People don't like progress. Stagnation at it's finest.

And some people think that if CATS needs money they should make the USERS pay. Throwing money at a problem again and again does not work. It's the definition of insanity.

[Antrell Williams]

So you actually think that because something doesn't work in Jefferson Parish that it's doomed to fail in Baton Rouge? What if it works in another part of the country???? Oh I guess that wouldn't count because it didn't work in Jefferson Parish and that trumps every other parish or county in the United States. Right?

You contradict yourself because whenever I bring up New Orleans or Houston the first thing you say is "This isn't Houston/New Orleans" and dismiss my comment. If a government run system can work in Houston so well, it can work in BR too.

And some people think that if CATS needs money they should make the USERS pay. Throwing money at a problem again and again does not work. It's the definition of insanity.

The riders have paid increases. Majority of them can't afford the fare now, can't double it. Not saying to vote for the tax, because they are horribly managed but I'd be shame to know if CATS is extinct in the next 5 years and we are left with nothing. A metro area nearing a million people, two large state universities, state government, and a changing city should definitley have a metro-wide bus system.

[itsjustme3]

You contradict yourself because whenever I bring up New Orleans or Houston the first thing you say is "This isn't Houston/New Orleans" and dismiss my comment. If a government run system can work in Houston so well, it can work in BR too.

So it's ok for you to use that ridiculous excuse but when I turn it on you, you somehow feel as if you're still right?

The riders have paid increases. Majority of them can't afford the fare now, can't double it. Not saying to vote for the tax, because they are horribly managed but I'd be shame to know if CATS is extinct in the next 5 years and we are left with nothing. A metro area nearing a million people, two large state universities, state government, and a changing city should definitley have a metro-wide bus system.

Yes, and if a private company wants to cone in and do it then so be it. But leave my money out of the hands of the incompetent people who have run CATS into the ground.

[buckett5425]

Im over my tax dollars being spent to build roads that I don't use. If a private company want to come in and do it, then so be it. But leave my money out of the hands of incompetent people. #sarcasm

But get my point?

[itsjustme3]

Im over my tax dollars being spent to build roads that I don't use. If a private company want to come in and do it, then so be it. But leave my money out of the hands of incompetent people. #sarcasm

But get my point?

lol for comparing wasting money on a failed system & bus riders with tax money going towards a road that anyone with a vehicle (including police, ambulance and fire trucks) are free to use.

[buckett5425]

lol for comparing wasting money on a failed system & bus riders with tax money going towards a road that anyone with a vehicle (including police, ambulance and fire trucks) are free to use.

and people on a public bus.

[itsjustme3]

and people on a public bus.

And when it's all said and done, taxpayers will probably vote no, because they shouldn't have their taxes used for roads for their vehicles AND have to pay for people to ride a bus.

[Antrell Williams]

So it's ok for you to use that ridiculous excuse but when I turn it on you, you somehow feel as if you're still right?

Problem is I'm on the fence with the CATS tax and privitization. So, I'm not right or wrong. But you did contradict yourself.

And when it's all said and done, taxpayers will probably vote no, because they shouldn't have their taxes used for roads for their vehicles AND have to pay for people to ride a bus.

Explain your logic here. Why is it that they "shouldn't" have to subsidie public transit but they should subsidize public roads? You realize letting CATS fold is NOT the right answer either.

Should we stop paying for education too? Heck, they aren't doing any good.

[itsjustme3]

Explain your logic here. Why is it that they "shouldn't" have to subsidie public transit but they should subsidize public roads? You realize letting CATS fold is NOT the right answer either.

Everyone can use a road and everyone pays a tax. Do you really not see the difference between that and people riding a bus, who are not paying their fair share??? Tge riders arent paying for this new funding...PROPERTY owners are.

Listening to people cry about society coming to a halt without CATS is hysterical. I can only assume it's the same as when people were told they couldn't use horse and buggys on roads and highways. If CATS dies people will have to adapt and a new company will come in and attempt to provide a service. The days of wasting taxpayers money is eventually going to come to an end. The sooner the better.

[Antrell Williams]

Everyone can use a road and everyone pays a tax. Do you really not see the difference between that and people riding a bus, who are not paying their fair share??? Tge riders arent paying for this new funding...PROPERTY owners are.

Listening to people cry about society coming to a halt without CATS is hysterical. I can only assume it's the same as when people were told they couldn't use horse and buggys on roads and highways. If CATS dies people will have to adapt and a new company will come in and attempt to provide a service. The days of wasting taxpayers money is eventually going to come to an end. The sooner the better.

Everyone can ride a bus and everyone pays a tax. There is no difference. Roads get a majority of the funding while transit is left to die like it is now. How are they not paying their fair share? They pay a increased fare everytime they get on. Raise it again shall we! Screw the less fortunate!

Yes, property owners would pay for the improved service (not saying a complete turn around but it would improve at least 1%) just like they paid for the Green Light Plan. That's how this country works, you pay for services that are provided to you, you have the right to patronize them or not.

Society coming to a halt is dramatic. Thousands of people being left without a way to get around is more like it. Wasting taxpayer money will never cease to happen as long as people have opinions.

[itsjustme3]

Everyone can ride a bus and everyone pays a tax. There is no difference. Roads get a majority of the funding while transit is left to die like it is now. How are they not paying their fair share? They pay a increased fare everytime they get on. Raise it again shall we! Screw the less fortunate!

Yes, property owners would pay for the improved service (not saying a complete turn around but it would improve at least 1%) just like they paid for the Green Light Plan. That's how this country works, you pay for services that are provided to you, you have the right to patronize them or not.

Society coming to a halt is dramatic. Thousands of people being left without a way to get around is more like it. Wasting taxpayer money will never cease to happen as long as people have opinions.

Yes, let's give and give and give. Broken system? Who cares. Give more. Incompetent CATS planning? Who cares. Give more! Poor service that resulted in CATS losing the LSU contract? WHO CARES. GIVE MORE IF YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY!!

You can turn this into a rich vs poor argument all you want but the facts are CATS is a broken system and the money from my wallet won't make it better.