Panel recommends CATS tax

[cajun]

We'll see what happens.

I am hearing from some that CATS had no legal authority to have a municipal tax.

Don't know if that is true or not, but this is probably going to court.

[Antrell Williams]

I am hearing from some that CATS had no legal authority to have a municipal tax.

Don't know if that is true or not, but this is probably going to court.

Why not?

[cajun]

Why not?

I don't know if I agree with it, but the argument is that it isn't a municipal entity, and is a state agency created by the legislature....so they can't call on a municipal election but can call on a parish wide election or multiple-parish election- usually held in November.

Baton Rouge's government setup is certainly complicating things. People don't typical vote for city wide issues. Many were not even sure if they were in the city or not. The city limits are weird.

I think it may go to court.

Either way, transit requires regional cooperation. I would be crying foul if I lived in the city limits now just out of fairness- with my tax dollars supporting a system that other areas use without contributing.

Not related, but First Transit has shown interest in competing for a management contract to service Baton Rouge. They currently service LSU, and reportedly look for new markets. They already have a record of outperforming CATS on the streets of Baton Rouge.

[pm_arch]

Cajun, do you have knowledge of this actually being disputed? This has been brought up by "phil" on the comments section of the Advocate on numerous occasions but I do not know of anyone else actually disputing the legality of the tax. Unfairness, yeah. Timing, purpose, agenda... of course. But I haven't heard of anyone saying this was illegal.

Didn't know if you had some other knowledge or going off of what he (or someone else) has been claiming?

It would appear that the people who were being taxed had the opportunity to vote, which was advertised well in advance. And with the new voting portal via the Secretary of State's website (http://www.sos.la.gov), which was also included in almost every article of the paper that dealt with CATS leading up to the vote, it would seem that no voter had any reason not to vote other than the overwhelming prevalence of voter-laziness we have in this country.

[cajun]

It's an argument being made by friends of mine who I'm still in touch with.....which I'm sure mirrors the political leaders they support. They are complaining that CATS isn't a municipal entity and can't override homestead exemption nor pass a municipal tax on its own.

At least one elected official has voiced his opinion of this that I know of....and at least one Baton Rouge attorney has been complaining about it. One is a democrat, one is a republican.

I don't think the issue is dead judging by how angry people are. I don't know if I agree with them, but I understand their outrage.

Either way, I encourage them to vote with their feet.

[itsjustme3]

I may be wrong but I think the tax busters group said they would look into the legality of the tax if it were to pass. Hopefully someone does plan a lawsuit.

[Antrell Williams]

I don't know if I agree with it, but the argument is that it isn't a municipal entity, and is a state agency created by the legislature....so they can't call on a municipal election but can call on a parish wide election or multiple-parish election- usually held in November.

Baton Rouge's government setup is certainly complicating things. People don't typical vote for city wide issues. Many were not even sure if they were in the city or not. The city limits are weird.

I think it may go to court.

Either way, transit requires regional cooperation. I would be crying foul if I lived in the city limits now just out of fairness- with my tax dollars supporting a system that other areas use without contributing.

Not related, but First Transit has shown interest in competing for a management contract to service Baton Rouge. They currently service LSU, and reportedly look for new markets. They already have a record of outperforming CATS on the streets of Baton Rouge.

I'm convinced a smarter plan would have prevented this.

[buckett5425]

Either way, I encourage them to vote with their feet.

Why walk when you can take the newly funded bus system instead? Just kidding...

[cajun]

Why walk when you can take the newly funded bus system instead? Just kidding...

I'm more in the public transit supporter's camp now more than ever after discussing it with a friend of mine....just not in this debate framed around CATS.

I don't think the bus system will be the last straw...more of a death by 1,000 cuts.

Every populist program around is going to try to follow this municipal only model regardless if they are associated with the city now. Higher relative taxes do drive people away.

Really wish this was a regional initiative.

[itsjustme3]

Looks like the lawsuit is right around the corner:

http://theadvocate.com/home/2654878-125/cats-tax-votes-follow-regional

Meanwhile CATS has just signed a contract with a GPS company to install GPS tracking on all CATS buses. Now bus riders, all 4 of them, can track a bus on their smart phone.

If a bus rider can afford a IPhone, why can't they afford a rate increase????

[cajun]

Looks like the lawsuit is right around the corner:

http://theadvocate.com/home/2654878-125/cats-tax-votes-follow-regional

Meanwhile CATS has just signed a contract with a GPS company to install GPS tracking on all CATS buses. Now bus riders, all 4 of them, can track a bus on their smart phone.

If a bus rider can afford a IPhone, why can't they afford a rate increase????

Cell phones are cheaper than a car....to some, they are free.

Given the stupidity and foolishness of the tax setup, I could understand advocates of public transit being against this regardless of how promising the new routes are. The proposal is just a bus system. No rail. No trolley. No park and ride. Privitization was not even considered. Combined that with the unfairness and the questions of legality....and I think the parish (not CATS) should try again.

I'd like a tailored tax district with homestead exemptions...and I'd like a downtown trolley included in the proposal, even if it is just up and down third street. It could be something added onto later. I'd like to open up transit in Baton Rouge to competitive bidding.

It may need to come in the form of a parish wide proposal that includes street improvements and public safety infrastructure to gain support in unincorporated areas. That combined with some park and ride setups to and from downtown and LSU would probably be more popular.

[Antrell Williams]

Should be a metro wide transit system and taxing district. Include Nicholson light-rail too.

Although, since we pay for the use of interstates and don't pay a direct fee to access them, theoretically, we shouldn't be taxed for a service we will pay to use again.

[buckett5425]

Should be a metro wide transit system and taxing district. Include Nicholson light-rail too. Although, since we pay for the use of interstates and don't pay a direct fee to access them, theoretically, we shouldn't be taxed for a service we will pay to use again.

Yea, I would have liked the tax more if it was a bond issue regarding mass transit, including light rail, and not to simply sustain CATS. The bond issue could have also dictated that all development built within a 1/4 mile of a station should be walkable, close to the street, and contribute to the streetscape. Stations or bus stops that drop you off on the side of a highway are pointless.

[Antrell Williams]

Yea, I would have liked the tax more if it was a bond issue regarding mass transit, including light rail, and not to simply sustain CATS. The bond issue could have also dictated that all development built within a 1/4 mile of a station should be walkable, close to the street, and contribute to the streetscape. Stations or bus stops that drop you off on the side of a highway are pointless.

Thing with that is that I don't think it would pass in this state.

I wonder if it would include street improvements as well if it would pass, marketed as a transportation bond that covers multiple transit options including trails, bike lanes, street grids, and connectivity issues.

I really hate to see what has come of Bluebonnet. That sea of concrete surrounding the mall could have been put into a parking garage and the stores brought up to the street on half of the land. You see the fake new-urban style in the new addition near the food court. How cute, too late for that.

[cajun]

Thing with that is that I don't think it would pass in this state.

I wonder if it would include street improvements as well if it would pass, marketed as a transportation bond that covers multiple transit options including trails, bike lanes, street grids, and connectivity issues.

I really hate to see what has come of Bluebonnet. That sea of concrete surrounding the mall could have been put into a parking garage and the stores brought up to the street on half of the land. You see the fake new-urban style in the new addition near the food court. How cute, too late for that.

I was reading about the new school district in southeast Baton Rouge.

If the taxes go up in that district to support schools, the CATS tax effects that I am concerned with could be undermined if both districts had similar taxes.....as it would at least partially eliminate the lopsided tax rates.

Maybe it wouldn't. My reasoning is that if you have two adjacent districts with the same public services, the incentive would be to live in the one with lower taxes. If the tax rates are both similar, there would be less incentive.

I can't imagine them not raising taxes in se school district. Zachary and Central did after they started.

On the other hand, you'd have a hard time getting voters in those districts to tax themselves any more for public transit if they wanted to opt into more CATS service in the future.

[Antrell Williams]

I was reading about the new school district in southeast Baton Rouge.

If the taxes go up in that district to support schools, the CATS tax effects that I am concerned with could be undermined if both districts had similar taxes.....as it would at least partially eliminate the lopsided tax rates.

Maybe it wouldn't. My reasoning is that if you have two adjacent districts with the same public services, the incentive would be to live in the one with lower taxes. If the tax rates are both similar, there would be less incentive.

I can't imagine them not raising taxes in se school district. Zachary and Central did after they started.

On the other hand, you'd have a hard time getting voters in those districts to tax themselves any more for public transit if they wanted to opt into more CATS service in the future.

I'm sure every new school district has an increased tax rate or it couldn't support itself. I don't feel like much of SE BR will be pulling for transit so as long as there's a bus and bus stops, I wouldn't worry about them asking for transit. As long as Jones Creek, Coursey, and O'neal are served everything should be peachy.

[Antrell Williams]

www.TogetherBR.org

http://www.togetherbr.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Transit-Reform_Accountability-Report-Card.pdf

Does anyone know if they have authority to hold CATS accountable for their service?

They also have a petition for governace reform:

Some of us supported the transit tax election. Some of us did not. But ALL OF US support having a strong governance structure for our new transit system, where politics plays no role in decisions about transit.

http://www.change.org/petitions/louisiana-senators-say-yes-to-transit-governance-reform-in-baton-rouge

[cajun]

www.TogetherBR.org

http://www.togetherbr.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/Transit-Reform_Accountability-Report-Card.pdf

Does anyone know if they have authority to hold CATS accountable for their service?

They also have a petition for governace reform:

It appears that this special interest group will control CATS....based on what the legislature is doing. This has to be approved in the state house.

The group may have good intentions now, but the citizens have no recourse if they change.....which disturbs me a little.

Maybe Jindal will veto the bill.

[Antrell Williams]

It appears that this special interest group will control CATS....based on what the legislature is doing. This has to be approved in the state house.

The group may have good intentions now, but the citizens have no recourse if they change.....which disturbs me a little.

Maybe Jindal will veto the bill.

I'm all for it. If it doesn't happen now, I'm afraid it never will.

[cajun]

I'm all for it.

Why?

[Antrell Williams]

Why?

Current administration is no good. I'm all for improvement and progress.

[cajun]

Current administration is no good. I'm all for improvement and progress.

Not arguing with that.

I'm just not comfortable with non-elected officials being responsible for what will be public liabilities. If the taxpayers on on the hook for a public entity, the elected officials should be responsible for nominating board members.

This group's intentions are good now, but things can change...and nothing the council or taxpayers could do to change it.

[Antrell Williams]

Not arguing with that.

I'm just not comfortable with non-elected officials being responsible for what will be public liabilities. If the taxpayers on on the hook for a public entity, the elected officials should be responsible for nominating board members.

This group's intentions are good now, but things can change...and nothing the council or taxpayers could do to change it.

I mean, I guess there's a possibility something covers this is in the legislation.

[itsjustme3]

The CATS tax is being looked at by the LA AG, per businessreport.com:

Official AG opinion sought on constitutionality of CATS tax

Republican Sen. Dan Claitor of Baton Rouge has asked Louisiana Attorney General Buddy Caldwell for his office to issue an official opinion on whether or not the 10.6-mill property tax that Baton Rouge and Baker voters approved in April for CATS funding is legal under Louisiana's constitution. In a five-page letter sent to Caldwell on July 5, Claitor argues that the election was not necessary and is "at odds with earlier, more constitutionally sound proposals for CATS funding." As approved by voters, Claitor says, "the CATS tax forces people owning property within the city limits of Baton Rouge and Baker to pay for services provided to untaxed parties outside the city limits and elsewhere in the parish." Claitor cites a 1974 case argued before the Louisiana Supreme Court as precedent "that a tax of this sort violates the constitutional right to equal protection." Read Claitor's complete five-page request for the opinion here. Caldwell's office has thus far already issued one opinion on the CATS tax, saying in May that the state's homestead exemption should be applied to the property tax.

[Antrell Williams]

Just grow a money tree. Good God.