Panel recommends CATS tax

[itsjustme3]

Bus riders would do the exact same thing.

LOL!!! Whatever you say! LOL

[Antrell Williams]

LOL!!! Whatever you say! LOL

Nice to see you in a good mood this Sunday.

[itsjustme3]

I always enjoy a good laugh

[cajun]

Nice to see you in a good mood this Sunday.

Bus riders using CATS are likely not to have another choice. It's that bad.

I'm concerned that no one will listen to the riders because of their social standing.....much like public school parents or Joe commuter using an antiquated road network.

[cajun]

The idea and support for public transit is most definitely flawed, you know this, Cajun.

It has a major brand equity problem....one that is well deserved in Baton Rouge after decades of poor service followed by a controversial (at best) demand for more funding from taxpayers.

I'm personallt not against public transit but I'm most definately skeptical of CATS being able to meet the needs of the city without a blank check and very top heavy management.

The private sector very well handles certain operations better than the government can, but with that logic one would assume that roads shouldn't be maintained by the government.

Outsourcing entre public works departments (not just bridge or sewer) has been tried in smaller cities with success. If Baton Rouge went that route, they'd be the largest that I know of though.

Nothing wrong with it. The city can avoid long term liabilities and public sector union issues while they cut costs in most cases. If it doesn't work, they can bring some things in house.

My town is bringing ambulance service in house while outsourcing garbage pickup.

[Antrell Williams]

Bus riders using CATS are likely not to have another choice. It's that bad.

I'm concerned that no one will listen to the riders because of their social standing.....much like public school parents or Joe commuter using an antiquated road network.

They did something before CATS service was expanded.

 

The grassroots organization http://www.togetherbr.org/ is holding the leaders accountable for the shortcomings in CATS.

 

If there is no profit to be made from an improved road system, then where is the incentive to invest and build? Catch my drift?

 

It has a major brand equity problem....one that is well deserved in Baton Rouge after decades of poor service followed by a controversial (at best) demand for more funding from taxpayers.

I'm personallt not against public transit but I'm most definately skeptical of CATS being able to meet the needs of the city without a blank check and very top heavy management.

Outsourcing entre public works departments (not just bridge or sewer) has been tried in smaller cities with success. If Baton Rouge went that route, they'd be the largest that I know of though.

Nothing wrong with it. The city can avoid long term liabilities and public sector union issues while they cut costs in most cases. If it doesn't work, they can bring some things in house.

My town is bringing ambulance service in house while outsourcing garbage pickup.

I wasn't speaking on just EBR but all of our nation.

 

I know you aren't against PT, you often mentioned rail options in the city. I can't fathom an entire transportation company taking over in EBR being less costly and more trustworthy than what we currently deal with.

 

May as ask where you live? Gwinnett? Fulton?

[cajun]

I live in Fulton county.

I'm not seeing the point you are trying to make with roads.....are you implying that road maintence has not been privatized before or that no profit exists in infrastructure improvements?

[Antrell Williams]

What I'm saying is that if all of the parish owned roads were going to be under the control and ownership of a private company, I don't see where a profit can be made unless subsidized.

 

Indirect profit certainly exists with infrastructure improvements.

[cajun]

What I'm saying is that if all of the parish owned roads were going to be under the control and ownership of a private company, I don't see where a profit can be made unless subsidized.

Indirect profit certainly exists with infrastructure improvements.

They'd be under control and ownership of the taxpayers, who would retain a private firm to manage and carry out maintenance services.

Unless you are talking about toll roads.....

[Antrell Williams]

They'd be under control and ownership of the taxpayers, who would retain a private firm to manage and carry out maintenance services.

Unless you are talking about toll roads.....

I would love to read an article describing exactly how much money was saved from turning over maintenance to a private company.

 

In a sense I was talking about both. If we treated roads how we do mass transit I wonder how the attitudes would shift. I don't believe in toll roads nor paying twice for transit options. (taxation and paying for use)

[cajun]

In a sense I was talking about both. If we treated roads how we do mass transit I wonder how the attitudes would shift. I don't believe in toll roads nor paying twice for transit options. (taxation and paying for use)

Private toll roads are not supported by public dollars like public roadways are. I've seen public funding go to feasibility studies and cooperative agreements for expropriation,, but the instances where tolls are even proposed on a public road is always met with widespreaf public outrage (Blanco attempted something like that on I-12)....that would be a money grab just as unfair as a some of the rural speed traps we see in places like Port Barre or Washington, La.

For tollways, under most circumstances a private entity issues bonds to cover the construction costs and right of way acquisition, and toll revenue covers maintenance and borrowing costs. Eventually a profit is realized and bondholders see a slight guaranteed return. Depending on expectstions of inflation, this is a good tax free, low risk way for the average joe to invest.

I have no problem with toll roads especially in sprawling areas that are trying to keep their tax rates low while struggling to meet growing demand for public services. The public doesn't have to use tollways or public transit....and there is apparently a market niche that governments are leaving for private companies to exploit by not keeping up with demand for roadways.

It's really not possible for public funding to even come close to keeping up with new technology and different needs over time. For example, it's much easier for telecommunication companies to assume the risk of providing service to meet ever changing demands than for the public to undertake something like that. It's really not possible to say with certainty how we commute or travel in 100 years.

You do see the difference between a toll road and a municipality outsourcing maintenance of public property or public service right? It's apples and oranges. The difference is that people are compelled to pay for public transit via taxes regardless of their use- and when they do use it they are charged a toll or boarding fee (In the likely illegal case of the CATS tax, some areas serviced are not taxed....in functional cities that's very unusual).

Absolutely everyone uses public roads regardless of if they are walking or driving on them. Even if you are bedridden at home, you are receiving good or services that are transported on public roads. Society wouldn't function without publicly owned right of way outside of a completely agrarian existance at best. Hiring a private company to provide a good or service on public property is a far cry from giving away public property or surrendering to complete anarchy.

[itsjustme3]

So, I see the CATS supporters have been pretty quiet. Is it because a CATS board member resigned because he was caught stealing money? Is it because CATS now says it has been missing thousands of dollars a month since last July? Is it because CATS is still a failure?

[buckett5425]

So, I see the CATS supporters have been pretty quiet. Is it because a CATS board member resigned because he was caught stealing money? Is it because CATS now says it has been missing thousands of dollars a month since last July? Is it because CATS is still a failure?

 

 

The Board running CATS is a failure, therefore mass transit is bad?

 

 

That is a very weak argument. 

[cajun]

The Board running CATS is a failure, therefore mass transit is bad?

That is a very weak argument

.

That would be a weak argument.....didn't see the suggestion that mass transit is bad anywhere in his post though.

Why deflect by building a straw man? I've been saying since well before this tax was passed that it was a mistake.

You know we were right. Supporting mass transit taxes doesn't mean that you are supporting mass transit. That's the gimmick being sold to taxpayers and it's BS. In this case your support of this tax supported fraud and failure, and virtually eliminated the likelyhood that level headed people will support mass transit in BR again in the future. This set the city back a long ways in mass transit.

Just admit it. A well vetted idea must stand up to skeptics. This one failed miserably.

[buckett5425]

That would be a weak argument.....didn't see the suggestion that mass transit is bad anywhere in his post though.

Why deflect by building a straw man? I've been saying since well before this tax was passed that it was a mistake.

You know we were right. Supporting mass transit taxes doesn't mean that you are supporting mass transit. That's the gimmick being sold to taxpayers and it's BS. In this case your support of this tax supported fraud and failure, and virtually eliminated the likelyhood that level headed people will support mass transit in BR again in the future. This set the city back a long ways in mass transit.

Just admit it. A well vetted idea must stand up to skeptics. This one failed miserably.

 

I agree with the notion that CATS failure to manage itself will deter voters from supporting similar proposals in the future, I have stated that in previous posts and share the same frustration. 

 

However, it is ridiculous for you to imply those who supported the tax would also endorse fraud and failure. An interesting piece on the local news this evening highlighted how Together Baton Rouge is frustrated by CATS incompetence and is leading the charge for a overhaul of the CATS board because their credibility is also on the line.

 

I still support the tax, I do not support CATS current leadership, so at what point am I supposed to admit you were right?

[cajun]

CATS isn't just dealing with a failure to manage itself. It's facing audits and investigations of fraud that may have been gong on for up to 3 years. The process of rewarding service contracts appears to have also been tainted. Worst of all....voters were well warned about the inevitable failure of the system and the possible illegality of the tax.

Together BR's credibility is shot and will never recover. They, like some have on this board, spewed garbage by telling opponents that they were somehow holding Baton Rouge back by not supporting this fraud of a tax. Some in Baton Rouge have resorted to calling opponents racist for not supporting CATS to shut down and silence any real criticism of the proposal. Sound familiar?

Just like you did with Itsjustme, CATS supporters immediately branded any opponent of such a poorly thought out, possibly illegal tax scheme as being "against mass transit" despite valid justification for opposing this complete and total waste of public funding. Those opponents were dismissed as fools who lacked vision.

Supporting mass transit doesn't mean we have to accept CATS (who had at the time a long history of terrible service).....as I've pointed out before. This more than a speed bump on the way to a comprehensive mass transit system. It's a dumpster fire that probably ruined the chance of any mass transit proposal for the next 30 years.

[itsjustme3]

The Board running CATS is a failure, therefore mass transit is bad?

That is a very weak argument.

Wow. That's a helluva stretch. I hope you didn't pull a hamstring with that huge stretch. Nowhere did I say anything about mass transit.

CATS, like any business, will always be a failure if it has horrible leadership. The horrible CATS system is just a reflection of the incompetent, money stealing fools who run CATS.

[itsjustme3]

So, how long before CATS is privatized now? And when that happens will that kill the illegal property tax?

[Antrell Williams]

Within 12 months, and yes.

[itsjustme3]

Tomorrow we will learn that CATS employees took a CATS bus to a Hornets game which is against a federal policy. Yesterday the CFO quit and that he held money from the Touchdown Express routes in his office safe instead of depositing it. Literally everyday there is more garbage being exposed. Hysterical.

[cajun]

The entire board needs to be dissolved and management investigated for fraud.

I'd like to thank TogetherBR and other local organizations (some of which introduced race politics into the CATS issue) for throwing a wrench in logical debate on this topic and pushing this disaster onto Baton Rouge. Branding skeptics as being anti-mass transit was wrong and short sighted and clearly set the city back. It only served to shut down criticism at the time, knowing what a mess CATS always was.

Voters have pledged support for an organization that can neither efficiently or reliably perform the services they exist to provide. They fail in spectacular fashion while some management may be committing fraud.

Public transit may need to be privatized in Baton Rouge. The city may need to dump CATS the way LSU did. They can't call the new system CATS either. That brand is officially toxic.

Something I've learned through this....CATS is giving people in the Baton Rouge area very good reasons to be skeptical of public transit. They aren't just damaging the CATS brand. They are hurting prospects for even the best public transit proposals.

Those organizations that supported this all deserve to eat crow right now. I am now skeptical of their particular flavor of progress after this. They seem to be putting special interests ahead of the needs or the public and branding it as "progressive" policy. Baton Rouge needed public transit. They don't need CATS and would be better off without it.

[itsjustme3]

It just continues......

CATS board member Jared Loftus is stepping down from the transit system board after nearly four years, saying he is fed up with the “… ineptitude … closed-mindedness and ... unethical behavior …” of some of his fellow board members. In a letter submitted this afternoon to Metro Council Chairman Chandler Loupe, Loftus says, “Riddled in controversy, it will be impossible for the Board to move forward 'as-is' and thereby impossible to give the people of Baton Rouge the public transit system they want and deserve.” Loftus helped lead the campaign for a dedicated 10.6-mil CATS tax in early 2012, and subsequently served as board president from May 2012 until January. Read the full story on Daily Report PM. —Stephanie Riegel

BWAHAHAHA. Not only is CATS reputation tarnished forever, so are the race hustlers and poverty pimps at Together Baton Rouge.

[cajun]

There is a resolution before the council that involves asking the legislature to dissolve the CATS agency while transferring all CATS property to the city-parish government (real estate, buses, and facilities) for the purpose of selecting a contractor to take over public transportation responsibilities and evaluating their performance annually.

I think this might be the first step towards real public transportation in Baton Rouge. It might be a couple of years away, but it will give the city-parish the option of replacing the contractor if they don't fufill their service obligations.

CATS hasn't provided acceptable levels of public transit throughout their existance. This may be our chance to get rid of them and transfer accountability to the service provider while giving the city more control over schedules, fares, performance, and routes.

My only concern is that the city-parish probably doesn't have the stomach to support even a bare bones system with a dedicated tax anymore.

[itsjustme3]

I am pretty sure that when CATS dies, and it will, that the sun will come up the next day. People adapt. It's in humans nature.

[richyb83]