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19 minutes ago, Dale said:

If you've found a way to opt out of taxes I want to be the first to know.

Sorry, I should have qualified my disagreement.

I think we will get a decent bid, that also involves the city starting talking about a new stadium in 5 seasons after the close of sale. That is talking/negotiations. Not an outright agreement to a new stadium at the time of sale.

I think the current stadium has about 10-13 years of life left in it, so if you can start negotiations in 5 and have a new one opened for the 2029/30 season, that is way more palatable. Plus, this way it will not make the current renovation investment look like a complete waste of money.

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1 hour ago, Dale said:

I hear you. I'm just saying the likelier scenario is the city not taking the hard line you'd prefer.

Charlotte would have been better off had Jerry Richardson had not committed the high crime of asking an employee if she had to lie down to get her jeans on.

Let's suppose that's "all" he said.  Just how in the world do you minimize it as harmless or an aw shucks rich guy moment.  Imagine him saying that to your wife, daughter, etc who's worked damn hard to be viewed as a professional.   If that's all being reported surely you believe it's much worse than an aw shucks rich guy moment.  It's simply idiotic, insensitive and grossly unprofessional.  And the notion of brushing it off as harmless is simply out of touch.  If you said that at work in front of a room of colleagues you might get fired.   As I stated before, power brokers like JR are accustomed to bellowing out what comes to mind  without repercussion....a "king" like mentality.

Edit:  And it depends on context and relationship with that person.  I'm not too PC to note when people are kidding around at work, etc....but you'd better be extremely careful, marriage itself should teach a person that much, else it could be long day/week/month/year.

That aside, I'm onboard for building a new stadium as long as it's a retractable doom.   Otherwise, keep what you have for another 15-20 years.  

Edited by Durhamite
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6 minutes ago, Durhamite said:

Let's suppose that's "all" he said.  Just how in the world do you minimize it as harmless or an aw shucks rich guy moment.  Imagine him saying that to your wife, daughter, etc who's worked damn hard to be viewed as a professional.   If that's all being reported surely you believe it's much worse than an aw shucks rich guy moment.  It's simply idiotic, insensitive and grossly unprofessional.  And the notion of brushing it off as harmless is simply out of touch.  If you said that at work in front of a room of colleagues you might get fired.   As I stated before, power brokers like JR are accustomed to bellowing out what comes to mind  without repercussion....a "king" like mentality.

Edit:  And it depends on context and relationship with that person.  I'm not too PC to note when people are kidding around at work, etc....but you'd better be extremely careful, marriage itself should teach a person that much, else it could be long day/week/month/year.

That aside, I'm onboard for building a new stadium as long as it's a retractable doom.   Otherwise, keep what you have for another 15-20 years.  

Anatomy of a Financial Settlement ...

Working Girl: "Damn! These jeans are so tight I have to lie down to get them on. Hmm, wonder if the guys will notice ?"

Rich Old Guy: "Damn, girl! Did you have to lie down to get those jeans on ?"

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BofA stadium was ready for NFL in Fall of '96 making it just over 21 years old.  GA dome was imploded only after 25 years and Redskins are already looking for a FEDEX field replacement just after 20 years.

NFL owners are trying to maximize their profits and the new Panther owners will be no different . They will absolutely require a new stadium eventually, but the real question is ....will we pay for it?  Lets not forget that this has already played out in SF where the city balked  and the 49er's ended up moving 40 miles south to  Santa Clara.  Don't get me wrong,  I love the unique architectural design of our stadium and would be happy with just an overhaul much like the Dolphins did to Joe Robbie/Hard Rock stadium, but the unfortunate reality is that there are too many signs that this trend is accelerating.

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Charlotte is not Atlanta, Dallas, or Los Angeles. The current stadium fits the needs of the team fine, its more in the league of Tampa, Kansas City, Denver, or Baltimore. Those stadiums fit the needs of their teams which are all doing fine financially. Spend $2B on a retractable-roofed stadium just to host a Final Four or Super Bowl one time is just insane. 

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58 minutes ago, eastsider said:

Charlotte is not Atlanta, Dallas, or Los Angeles. The current stadium fits the needs of the team fine, its more in the league of Tampa, Kansas City, Denver, or Baltimore. Those stadiums fit the needs of their teams which are all doing fine financially. Spend $2B on a retractable-roofed stadium just to host a Final Four or Super Bowl one time is just insane. 

Compare a potential new stadium to Lucas Oil in Indianapolis. They are hosting their 3rd final four in 2021 since 2010.  Super Bowl this year.  College football title game in 2022.  Not too shabby.

I do love BOA, and gun to my head would prefer to keep it and keep renovating it until I’m old and gray... but hosting those big events would be huge for Charlotte, so that gets me pretty excited as well.  

Tax payers are going to be ponying up $$ for the stadium either way, because renovations will always be needed and owners will always want to either upgrade or build new.  I think I’ll be happy either way as long as the financing plan is solid and not like Louisville’s basketball arena or Miami Marlins stadium which ballooned to like double or triple what they were supposed to be.

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1 hour ago, eastsider said:

Charlotte is not Atlanta, Dallas, or Los Angeles. The current stadium fits the needs of the team fine, its more in the league of Tampa, Kansas City, Denver, or Baltimore. Those stadiums fit the needs of their teams which are all doing fine financially. Spend $2B on a retractable-roofed stadium just to host a Final Four or Super Bowl one time is just insane. 

Why in the world don't you understand it would be more than one time?

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Compare a potential new stadium to Lucas Oil in Indianapolis. They are hosting their 3rd final four in 2021 since 2010.  Super Bowl this year.  College football title game in 2022.  Not too shabby.
I do love BOA, and gun to my head would prefer to keep it and keep renovating it until I’m old and gray... but hosting those big events would be huge for Charlotte, so that gets me pretty excited as well.  
Tax payers are going to be ponying up $$ for the stadium either way, because renovations will always be needed and owners will always want to either upgrade or build new.  I think I’ll be happy either way as long as the financing plan is solid and not like Louisville’s basketball arena or Miami Marlins stadium which ballooned to like double or triple what they were supposed to be.


Not attempting to detract from your point, but the super bowl is being played in Minneapolis, followed by Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, and LA (the one was moved to Tampa because of construction delays in LA, otherwise all new stadiums.) Indy hosted SB XLVI and has not yet won a bid for another SB. I’m sure Vegas will be next in line or soon after. Not that I agree with a new stadium, but I feel like the only chance Charlotte has to ever host a SB will be a new stadium. I feel like 2030 is a good goal for a new stadium. IMO any time sooner would be irresponsible for the city.
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10 hours ago, R.Talbott said:

Compare a potential new stadium to Lucas Oil in Indianapolis. They are hosting their 3rd final four in 2021 since 2010.  Super Bowl this year.  College football title game in 2022.  Not too shabby.

I do love BOA, and gun to my head would prefer to keep it and keep renovating it until I’m old and gray... but hosting those big events would be huge for Charlotte, so that gets me pretty excited as well.  

Tax payers are going to be ponying up $$ for the stadium either way, because renovations will always be needed and owners will always want to either upgrade or build new.  I think I’ll be happy either way as long as the financing plan is solid and not like Louisville’s basketball arena or Miami Marlins stadium which ballooned to like double or triple what they were supposed to be.

The NCAA is headquartered in Indianapolis, it will always host the Final Four more than other locations. 

10 hours ago, jednc said:

Why in the world don't you understand it would be more than one time?

The NFL has a regular rotation of New Orleans, Arizona, and Miami that host Super Bowls that the execs and media love with LA and Vegas likely to soon join the mix. Add to it large southern metros of Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta and that takes up the majority of the sites. New York, Indy, San Francisco, and Minnesota have shelled out big money on new stadiums and hosted one SB each.  The college football championship was held in Tampa last year, a Stadium in the same age range as Charlotte, new mega stadium not needed. 

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9 hours ago, AuLukey said:

 


Not attempting to detract from your point, but the super bowl is being played in Minneapolis, followed by Atlanta, Miami, Tampa, and LA (the one was moved to Tampa because of construction delays in LA, otherwise all new stadiums.) Indy hosted SB XLVI and has not yet won a bid for another SB. I’m sure Vegas will be next in line or soon after. Not that I agree with a new stadium, but I feel like the only chance Charlotte has to ever host a SB will be a new stadium. I feel like 2030 is a good goal for a new stadium. IMO any time sooner would be irresponsible for the city.

 

Honestly not sure why I thought that.  They hosted it in 2008.

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12 hours ago, eastsider said:

Charlotte is not Atlanta, Dallas, or Los Angeles. The current stadium fits the needs of the team fine, its more in the league of Tampa, Kansas City, Denver, or Baltimore. Those stadiums fit the needs of their teams which are all doing fine financially. 

 

Always love these #hottakes   

The current stadium fits the needs of the current ownership just fine because they are looking at a $200 million investment that's now worth $2.5 billion and zero debt service from the purchase.   A new owner is going to putting down $2.4 billion and have debt service.    

12 hours ago, eastsider said:

Spend $2B on a retractable-roofed stadium just to host a Final Four or Super Bowl one time is just insane. 

 

No.  What's insane is to spend hundreds of millions on a stadium that is open air and has no shot to host a Super Bowl or a Final Four.   Building a stadium that can only be used in nice weather is insane.   

You're also ignorant of the economic impact of a Super Bowl or Final Four has on the community.   The 2017 Final Four had generated more than $324 million (read 16% of the cost of that insane done) for the Phoenix region.   A Super Bowl brings in between $250 Million and $400 million in economic impact.    Care to tell me how much money the stadium that you think is 'fine' produced in economic impact in the months of January - March in its history?   I'll save you the math.  It's a whopping $0.  

 

 

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57 minutes ago, eastsider said:

The NCAA is headquartered in Indianapolis, it will always host the Final Four more than other locations. 

 

You honestly think the final 4 would only come to Charlotte once?  That’s what the whole post was in response to.   

There’s only about 10 stadiums that would be competition to choose from, but it could be here potentially every 8-10 years.

 

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5 minutes ago, cjd5050 said:

Always love these #hottakes   

The current stadium fits the needs of the current ownership just fine because they are looking at a $200 million investment that's now worth $2.5 billion and zero debt service from the purchase.   A new owner is going to putting down $2.4 billion and have debt service.    

No.  What's insane is to spend hundreds of millions on a stadium that is open air and has no shot to host a Super Bowl or a Final Four.   Building a stadium that can only be used in nice weather is insane.   

You're also ignorant of the economic impact of a Super Bowl or Final Four has on the community.   The 2017 Final Four had generated more than $324 million (read 16% of the cost of that insane done) for the Phoenix region.   A Super Bowl brings in between $250 Million and $400 million in economic impact.    Care to tell me how much money the stadium that you think is 'fine' produced in economic impact in the months of January - March in its history?   I'll save you the math.  It's a whopping $0.  

So we'd have to host a hell of a lot of Superbowls for taxpayers to reap any meaningful reward

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1 hour ago, R.Talbott said:

You honestly think the final 4 would only come to Charlotte once?  That’s what the whole post was in response to.   

There’s only about 10 stadiums that would be competition to choose from, but it could be here potentially every 8-10 years.

 

So that hypothetical stadium could potentially host 2 Final Fours over 20 years when the stadium would then be considered outdated and needs to be replaced? 

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2 hours ago, cjd5050 said:

No.  What's insane is to spend hundreds of millions on a stadium that is open air and has no shot to host a Super Bowl or a Final Four.   Building a stadium that can only be used in nice weather is insane. 

Honestly, I hate domes.  Even retractable roofs.  I want to watch games that are played outdoors and with real grass.  Even on television, I hate watching games in NO and Atlanta...too dark, fake grass.  

I really don't care about a big event every 10 or 20 years and I'm very skeptical of the economic impact.  You're from San Diego.  There has never been a city that was a better host for Super Bowls, aside from the stadium.  They were practically promised a regular rotation spot if they built a new stadium.  And yet, they wouldn't even build a stadium when faced with losing the Chargers.  I get the many reasons that happened and that California is different when it comes to building stadiums.  Nonetheless, if the economic impact was clear, a strong case would have been made for a stadium.  Never happened...

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3 hours ago, tozmervo said:

So we'd have to host a hell of a lot of Superbowls for taxpayers to reap any meaningful reward

If, when you say Superbowls you actually mean Superbowls, Final Fours, NCAA tournaments, CFB playoff games and any other events that you can think of going in a stadium and not being limited by weather....and then if when you say meaningful reward you actually mean not wasting money on a new stadium without a dome or roof that will happen anyways and avoid wasting money.....then yes.  

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IF taxpayer money is used then the city/county need to insist on a dome. We'd get 1 (and only 1 Super Bowl), Final Four every 10 years, ACC Basketball Tourney, more big concerts, upgrade our kickoff and bowl game status, wrestlemania, monster trucks, Elevation Church services, etc, etc.

 I'd also push for a change from Carolina to Charlotte Panthers - unless taxpayers across 'The Carolinas' are kicking in. 

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4 hours ago, eastsider said:

The NCAA is headquartered in Indianapolis, it will always host the Final Four more than other locations. 

The NFL has a regular rotation of New Orleans, Arizona, and Miami that host Super Bowls that the execs and media love with LA and Vegas likely to soon join the mix. Add to it large southern metros of Dallas, Houston, and Atlanta and that takes up the majority of the sites. New York, Indy, San Francisco, and Minnesota have shelled out big money on new stadiums and hosted one SB each.  The college football championship was held in Tampa last year, a Stadium in the same age range as Charlotte, new mega stadium not needed. 

San Francisco and Minnesota just opened new stadiums and will each host soon. That won't be a one-time thing. I wouldn't expect it to go back to NY anytime soon...too cold. I would expect Charlotte to host as often as Atlanta or Houston or Dallas. There will always be more SB hosted in Arizona, Miami, and SoCal because of weather. New Orleans simply was smart enough to build a facility years ago and they've been rewarded for it ever since. They are the proof that a smaller market can be a popular host of the Super Bowl. College Football Championship would certainly follow a new stadium and Charlotte will do a good job as usual (anything else we've ever hosted) as host. I'd expect a return. We did a fantastic job hosting the Final Four years ago and we had nothing by way of amenities back then. The Final Four will be a repeat customer if we have the facilities to host them. This is NC after all. Add to that concerts that will be sought after by new owners of a domed stadium and you've got a lot of icing on this cake. The cake itself will be a nice facility to watch a Panthers' Game.

That last statement isn't meant to imply that BofA Stadium isn't nice. I love it. To be honest, as a PSL owner, I'm hoping we don't build anything new for awhile since I'm not sure what will happen to my investment in those seats. But, I do believe there will be some benefits that will come with a new, domed stadium. I don't think it will only host one major event of each type and then be overlooked afterwards.

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I'm impartial pretty much, however, I do see the pros/cons for both sides.  Football wise, I enjoy outdoor stadiums better...I like experiencing the weather and being outdoors watching my Panthers (sunshine, snow, rain).  If I recall correctly when the DNC was here, the President's speech was supposed to be in BOA stadium, but with the weather being an issue, it was in the Hornet's arena.  In the spirit of Monster Jam this weekend, having a dome would give us a better venue for Grave Digger lol.  Seriously tho, I could see a Dome helping our bids with future X-Games or other big conventions/concerts.

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47 minutes ago, JBS said:

Honestly, I hate domes.  Even retractable roofs.  I want to watch games that are played outdoors and with real grass.  Even on television, I hate watching games in NO and Atlanta...too dark, fake grass.  

 

Ok.  

48 minutes ago, JBS said:

I really don't care about a big event every 10 or 20 years and I'm very skeptical of the economic impact.  You're from San Diego.  There has never been a city that was a better host for Super Bowls, aside from the stadium.  They were practically promised a regular rotation spot if they built a new stadium.  And yet, they wouldn't even build a stadium when faced with losing the Chargers.  I get the many reasons that happened and that California is different when it comes to building stadiums.  Nonetheless, if the economic impact was clear, a strong case would have been made for a stadium.  Never happened...

 

Just where are you coming up with a big event in increments of 10 or 20 years?  It's more likely to be much closer than that.  

If you're skeptical of the economic impact of tourism...I don't know what to say.   I was there for the Super Bown in 2003 and lived through at least 12 ComicCons.   They make race week here look small and cheap.  Mostly because it is.  

The reasons why San Diego didn't build a new stadium are many but one of the main reasons is even if the NFL would have guaranteed enough Super Bowls to have San Diego recoup its costs the people didn't want to even front the money to make Dean Spanos a penny more wealthy than he was.  You think George Shinn was disliked...not even a comparison.    Just like what Charlotte did with the NBA, if the NFL wants to go back to San Diego with a new owner I can guarantee they will build a stadium for hi...provided the two possible sites are developed by then.  Which of course was another one of the main issues.  

5 hours ago, eastsider said:

The college football championship was held in Tampa last year, a Stadium in the same age range as Charlotte, new mega stadium not needed. 

2

Are you serious Clark?  The high temp on Monday in Tampa will be 73.  The high in Charlotte will be 45.     The stadiums are not comparable because they are not located in the same climate.  

You clearly don't know what you're talking about here.  

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15 minutes ago, jednc said:

 New Orleans simply was smart enough to build a facility years ago and they've been rewarded for it ever since. They are the proof that a smaller market can be a popular host of the Super Bowl.

New Orleans is the exception and not the rule - They have unique culture,  good weather, good food, and the French Quarter.  Would the NFL Super Bowl committee really be clamoring to return to Charlotte to eat at Morton's and go to the Epicenter?

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