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On September 2, 2016 at 0:43 PM, castorvx said:

I think my problem in waiting for the environment to be "ripe for rail" is a bit like waiting for a bus at a bus stop you haven't built yet. 

Transit-oriented cities aren't accidents and they don't happen organically. It takes a lot of foresight and planning. To put it another way -- before SunRail was given the green light, how many rail-centric apartment projects were there? Literally none.

Build the rail, the private industry will take care of the rest.

 

Not true.  I'm not sure what "rail centric" means other than high density development near a train station (4 or more stories with parking garage and/or retail?).  It's not special or unique.  High density happens at the nodes where people want to be, like downtown, Winter Park, etc.  That is organic, demand, and location driven regardless of rail.  

With that said, you had several high density apartment communities built along Alafaya, and several at Veranda Park, and Avalon Park, Sand Lake Road, and in Winter Park and in Kissimmee before or irrespective of Sunrail.  Kissimmee may have been in anticipation of Sunrail, but with CLFA's history with rail proposals, that would not have been a good gamble.  Other examples:  Miami's Dadeland North station, with the multilevel big box stores...rail centric perhaps.  But you've got the same thing in Tampa on Dale Mabry & 275.  Not rail centric BUT high density.  Same type of deal with SoDo and Mills Park.  Maitland town center project.  Casselberry high density town center development; Baldwin Park; Celebration.  Not rail centric, rather, high density urban infill or development.

The only projects built that are rail centric are the Longwood station apts, The Ivy at Florida Hospital; Crescent Central in Downtown; the Maitland apt project across from Mercedes of Orlando; a new project in downtown Kissimmee I think under development for Phase II.  Is there anything else for Phase I?  I know about the plans for Meadowoods Station, etc.  But what's already built?  I know Skyhouse pimped their tower as rail centric, but is it really?  It's just a marketing ploy.

The point is that high density projects are and have been getting built all over regardless of whether there is or will be a train station nearby, and those projects vastly outnumber the rail centric projects that have been built in CFLA.

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Winter Park was, actually, planned around rail.  There is nothing organic about it, even if it seems that way now.

In fact, one could easily argue that WP is Central Florida's best planned community.

Florida's history of planned communities has a unique (or maybe not so unique) connection to its history of rail.  There are examples all over the state.

 

Edited by prahaboheme
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10 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Not true.  I'm not sure what "rail centric" means other than high density development near a train station (4 or more stories with parking garage and/or retail?).  It's not special or unique.  High density happens at the nodes where people want to be, like downtown, Winter Park, etc.  That is organic, demand, and location driven regardless of rail.  

With that said, you had several high density apartment communities built along Alafaya, and several at Veranda Park, and Avalon Park, Sand Lake Road, and in Winter Park and in Kissimmee before or irrespective of Sunrail.  Kissimmee may have been in anticipation of Sunrail, but with CLFA's history with rail proposals, that would not have been a good gamble.  Other examples:  Miami's Dadeland North station, with the multilevel big box stores...rail centric perhaps.  But you've got the same thing in Tampa on Dale Mabry & 275.  Not rail centric BUT high density.  Same type of deal with SoDo and Mills Park.  Maitland town center project.  Casselberry high density town center development; Baldwin Park; Celebration.  Not rail centric, rather, high density urban infill or development.

The only projects built that are rail centric are the Longwood station apts, The Ivy at Florida Hospital; Crescent Central in Downtown; the Maitland apt project across from Mercedes of Orlando; a new project in downtown Kissimmee I think under development for Phase II.  Is there anything else for Phase I?  I know about the plans for Meadowoods Station, etc.  But what's already built?  I know Skyhouse pimped their tower as rail centric, but is it really?  It's just a marketing ploy.

The point is that high density projects are and have been getting built all over regardless of whether there is or will be a train station nearby, and those projects vastly outnumber the rail centric projects that have been built in CFLA.

I suppose what I mean by "rail-centric" is higher density construction within the "walkshed" of reliable transit that can get a person to other reliable walksheds. I'm not implying that high density projects don't happen, just that they tend to be driver-oriented and not transit-oriented.  

To put it another way, you are right: high density projects go where people are/want to be and generally that is in a well-connected place. When there is no transit, that leaves only busy arterial driver routes. So, they get built, but they are useless if you don't have a car.

Rail/transit provides bones upon which the meat of cities can be built.

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38 minutes ago, castorvx said:

I suppose what I mean by "rail-centric" is higher density construction within the "walkshed" of reliable transit that can get a person to other reliable walksheds. I'm not implying that high density projects don't happen, just that they tend to be driver-oriented and not transit-oriented.  

To put it another way, you are right: high density projects go where people are/want to be and generally that is in a well-connected place. When there is no transit, that leaves only busy arterial driver routes. So, they get built, but they are useless if you don't have a car.

Rail/transit provides bones upon which the meat of cities can be built.

And here is the really interesting point about this:  Orlando, Sanford, Longwood, Maitland, Winter Park, Kissimmee, Deland, etc., all originally developed as a result of being along the CSX freight rail corridor, with factory and warehousing as well as several Amtrak stations along that route to boot.  Now, its like a Second Coming of sorts, where urban redevelopment is placing CRT along the existing line to morph development into office, retail, and residential.

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  • 3 weeks later...
10 hours ago, bulldogger said:

It looks like a blend of the Orange County Convention Center and the Mall at Millenia.

Spot on. Although, I like the white color and clean lines. It'll stand the test of time much better than the pink marble you can still see here and there in the current terminal. 

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  • 7 months later...
On 7/9/2017 at 8:35 AM, spenser1058 said:

New flights to Paris, Rio and Santiago coming to OIA, as well as Aruba service to OSI. More international destinations on the way.

From the Sentinel:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/tourism/os-cfb-cover-airport-new-service-20170709-story.html

Yeah!  Screw Uni-Ted and having to connect through Charlotte to go to Paris direct.  Just take Norwegian now.

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12 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

FYI - the Norwegian Dreamliner is by far the best overseas flying experience I've had. I highly recommend it.

I've used Norwegian several times, round trip to Oslo was under $500 and did one way to London non stop last month for $249 and returned from Brussels non-stop to Sanford on TUI Belgium for $149.  Both were good experiences, although TUI planes a bit older.

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Yesterday, News 13 did a segment on the OIA south terminal, never got around to watching it, but it was probably a rehash of news we already know. It's nice to hear that airlines are operating new flights out of OIA. I hope they're not too expensive - I rarely fly in/out of OIA as Sanford, Tampa, and especially Fort Lauderdale flights tend to be cheaper with the destinations and airlines I fly with.

Edited by metal93
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Drove by the new South Terminal last night.  I took about 20 shots, which is impressive as I was driving at the time.

To be fair (and more importantly SAFE!) I had the voice controls turned on, so only the people in the car (I was alone) thought I was an idiot.  I'm holding the phone up and saying "CHEESE" "CHEESE" "CHEESE" "CHEESE" over and over loudly as I'm randomly aiming where I think the terminal is.  A couple turned out ok.

3-1.jpg

3-2.jpg

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4 hours ago, HankStrong said:

Drove by the new South Terminal last night.  I took about 20 shots, which is impressive as I was driving at the time.

To be fair (and more importantly SAFE!) I had the voice controls turned on, so only the people in the car (I was alone) thought I was an idiot.  I'm holding the phone up and saying "CHEESE" "CHEESE" "CHEESE" "CHEESE" over and over loudly as I'm randomly aiming where I think the terminal is.  A couple turned out ok.

3-1.jpg

3-2.jpg

That is only the train station and garage. The terminal didn't break ground yet.

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