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It’s extremely unusual to place folks from so far away on local boards like that of an airport. 

And the Panhandle contributes nothing like we do in terms of tax revenues and the like. In fact, the peninsula has been propping it up for pretty much the better part of a century.

Let’s face it, if you divided the state in two, the Panhandle would be the economic equivalent of Mississippi.

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16 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

It’s extremely unusual to place folks from so far away on local boards like that of an airport. 

And the Panhandle contributes nothing like we do in terms of tax revenues and the like. In fact, the peninsula has been propping it up for pretty much the better part of a century.

Let’s face it, if you divided the state in two, the Panhandle would be the economic equivalent of Mississippi.

it's a power play, then...

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13 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

it's a power play, then...

Oh totally, and Rep. Baxley refuses to disclose who’s behind it and why.

Frankly, it’s guys like him who make politics often stink to high heaven. I’m thankful to have never worked for anyone like that.

 

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Our march to 50 million passengers continues. Calander year through April just shy of 49 million. Each month, we add 250k to 300k more than the year prior. We may break 51 million at this rate. Just let that sink in. 20 years ago, we were a low end large airport trying to gain mega status. Now, we are neck deep in the big boy club with an entire new terminal being built. In addition, rapid expansion of terminal C will continue in the near future even at grand opening.  

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3 hours ago, shardoon said:

Our march to 50 million passengers continues. Calander year through April just shy of 49 million. Each month, we add 250k to 300k more than the year prior. We may break 51 million at this rate. Just let that sink in. 20 years ago, we were a low end large airport trying to gain mega status. Now, we are neck deep in the big boy club with an entire new terminal being built. In addition, rapid expansion of terminal C will continue in the near future even at grand opening.  

Baffles me why everyone thinks this is good news. Unrestrained and uncontrolled growth are NOT net positives.

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35 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

Baffles me why everyone thinks this is good news. Unrestrained and uncontrolled growth are NOT net positives.

I beg to differ. The increase in traffic is from more tourists, conventioneers, and more seat options for our current population. We have more connections overseas than we ever had.  This is a good thing for our population and our economy. Sure, people make fun of our economy being low wage etc........ but this is what Orlando is. Without tourism, Orlando is a glorified Lakeland with Lockheed Martin as their main industry.   

FYI, I have no doubt that the airport would be just as big even with controlled growth. 

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1 hour ago, Uncommon said:

Baffles me why everyone thinks this is good news. Unrestrained and uncontrolled growth are NOT net positives.

I think you may be applying the sprawl standard to the airport.  more bigger is better...

5 hours ago, shardoon said:

Our march to 50 million passengers continues. Calander year through April just shy of 49 million. Each month, we add 250k to 300k more than the year prior. We may break 51 million at this rate. Just let that sink in. 20 years ago, we were a low end large airport trying to gain mega status. Now, we are neck deep in the big boy club with an entire new terminal being built. In addition, rapid expansion of terminal C will continue in the near future even at grand opening.  

oh, I get it... Hartsfield left ORD in the wind and LAX surpassed ORD, but is still way behind Hartsfield.  Back when ORD was No.1 and DFW was No.4 or so, DFW was in the 50M range of passengers.  Now, all of these airports have been getting busier more or less, but the 50M mark is a huge milestone...  They can't fix the TSA section at the main terminal fast enough or open Terminal C fast enough.

On 5/30/2019 at 5:57 PM, spenser1058 said:

The battle is joined as MCO goes to war against MLB for the right to call one’s self “Orlando”:

https://amp.floridatoday.com/amp/1270210001

From Florida Today 

at first, I thought MCO had a beef with Major League Baseball...

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4 minutes ago, HankStrong said:

Tourist growth is good news and I don't see how it could be viewed as bad sprawl????

The same types of folks who wanted Nashville to be “the Athens of the South” instead of Music City like to look down their noses at Orlando’s theme parks.

In both cases, it’s a losing battle. What the rest of the country knows you for is what you’ll be, so it’s best to embrace it and build upon it.

Today, Nashville and Orlando are two of the best known tier two cities in the country. Colleges like Vandy and Belmont have done just fine benefitting from Nashville’s hipster cred and Orlando’s tech community has been growing apace in the shadow of the Mouse (it only seems small because the parks are growing even faster).

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:09 PM, HankStrong said:

Tourist growth is good news and I don't see how it could be viewed as bad sprawl????

...I made that analogy in trying to analyze his thought process of why fast air traffic growth was bad...

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:22 PM, spenser1058 said:

The same types of folks who wanted Nashville to be “the Athens of the South” instead of Music City like to look down their noses at Orlando’s theme parks.

In both cases, it’s a losing battle. What the rest of the country knows you for is what you’ll be, so it’s best to embrace it and build upon it.

Today, Nashville and Orlando are two of the best known tier two cities in the country. Colleges like Vandy and Belmont have done just fine benefitting from Nashville’s hipster cred and Orlando’s tech community has been growing apace in the shadow of the Mouse (it only seems small because the parks are growing even faster).

very...very...true.

I wish Full Sail's campus was altered to be more campus-like and less strip center-like if possible.  it's location and ambiance doesn't really feed any kind of a neighborhood like Rollins does...  or like Nashville's colleges do; maybe put up a wall along Semoran with landscaping to signify that a campus is there.  UF retrofitted a brick and masonry short wall with molded concrete benches along University as recently as maybe 15 years ago; looks awesome.

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46 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

very...very...true.

I wish Full Sail's campus was altered to be more campus-like and less strip center-like if possible.  it's location and ambiance doesn't really feed any kind of a neighborhood like Rollins does...  or like Nashville's colleges do; maybe put up a wall along Semoran with landscaping to signify that a campus is there.  UF retrofitted a brick and masonry short wall with molded concrete benches along University as recently as maybe 15 years ago; looks awesome.

Yeah I was really hoping when they built Full Sail Live/Gateway it was a sign of things to come and the beginning of the redevelopment of their campus into a more real campus. They did a great job on it, and it makes up nearly every outdoor marketing photo of their campus I see. Unfortunately its been a decade without anything else even being planned.

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5 minutes ago, aent said:

Yeah I was really hoping when they built Full Sail Live/Gateway it was a sign of things to come and the beginning of the redevelopment of their campus into a more real campus. They did a great job on it, and it makes up nearly every outdoor marketing photo of their campus I see. Unfortunately its been a decade without anything else even being planned.

If only they’d buy some of the old buildings downtown and make a campus for the creative stuff like SCAD did in Savannah...

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On 6/10/2019 at 12:09 PM, HankStrong said:

Tourist growth is good news and I don't see how it could be viewed as bad sprawl????

Yay, come visit Orlando, tourists! A decade ago we welcomed 45 million and now we’re coming up on 80 million! By 2030, we’ll introduce 105 million people, each with their own rental car in a region and infrastructure ill-designed for this kind of explosive growth, and watch as crippling traffic, soaring housing costs, and bottom-feeder wages wreck the people that just want to live a decent life.

It’s not all good news.

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8 hours ago, Uncommon said:

Yay, come visit Orlando, tourists! A decade ago we welcomed 45 million and now we’re coming up on 80 million! By 2030, we’ll introduce 105 million people, each with their own rental car in a region and infrastructure ill-designed for this kind of explosive growth, and watch as crippling traffic, soaring housing costs, and bottom-feeder wages wreck the people that just want to live a decent life.

It’s not all good news.

So go move to Lakeland, Clermont, etc etc. This is what Orlando is, its economy runs on tourism. No different from Vegas. That will never change. If you are a transplant from somewhere else, you knew where you were moving. If you are a native to Orlando, there are many many places within the metro area that are not touched by tourism, such as Winter Park, Winter Garden, etc etc. 

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3 hours ago, shardoon said:

So go move to Lakeland, Clermont, etc etc. This is what Orlando is, its economy runs on tourism. No different from Vegas. That will never change. If you are a transplant from somewhere else, you knew where you were moving. If you are a native to Orlando, there are many many places within the metro area that are not touched by tourism, such as Winter Park, Winter Garden, etc etc. 

You’d be surprised how much misinformation there is on this topic. Yes, we have a lot of people working in lower-income Jobs, but that’s because we have so many of those jobs available. Compare that with cities like Philadelphia and New Orleans (just to name two -many major cities and lots of rural areas also are in the same boat) whose poverty percentages are even higher.

Even more importantly (and I’m doing research on this now ) is that it seems Orlando’s impoverished workers have a path upward that other cities don’t tend to have.

In other words, instead of the multigenerational poverty that keeps families trapped with no hope for improvement, that’s not what’s happening in Orlando.

Why? A number of reasons:

(1) Our largest employers, like Disney, provide benefits like health care, make it possible to go to college (through the paid for Aspire program) and have thousands of management operations jobs for workers to move toward. Disney is also raising wages for its workers to the minimum $15/hr living wage as recommended by progressive politicians. Because there aren’t enough workers to go around, other companies and resorts tend to match Disney over time to ensure they can keep running.

(2) Because there are so many unskilled jobs available, most people can find a job. It can be tough because starting out it may require a lot of overtime but the jobs are there to provide a path upward. That compares with cities where there are not enough jobs for unskilled workers and poverty becomes intractable over time.

(3) Compared to other large inner-city school systems, OCPS and our other county school districts rank well for allowing the unskilled to provide their families with a good basic education. No, OCPS will never compete with the schools in tony suburbs like Westchester, NY or Grosse Pointe, MI, but they run circles around Chicago or Detroit. Schools like Valencia also schedule classes broadly both on campus and online to make them accessible to entry-level workers with 24/7 work hours.

(4) Does Florida provide the kinds of services to make sure all its citizens need to succeed? Of course not, but that’s not something Orlando can do. To fix that will require change in Tallahassee and the undoing of centuries of backward thinking typical in the Southern states (see Mississippi). As someone whose family has lived in the South since 1780, yep I know exactly what I’m talking about.

Finally, there’s more than a little old-fashioned snobbery in some of the reporting here. Families with little education who themselves come from backgrounds of entrenched poverty are not going to start out as rocket scientists or brain surgeons.

There have to be places where one can take care of Maslow’s basics and build a better future for one’s self and one’s family (biological,  logical or otherwise). With our welcoming diversity and acceptance of everyone, not to mention almost unlimited paths to get started, Orlando provides a path for success.

I know - generations ago my grandparents from Alabama and South Carolina came to Florida to work in the orange groves with grade school educations at best. Members of the family have gone on to great success thanks to the public schools, universities and careers at places like Hughes Supply and yes Disney.

Although the folks starting their journey today may come from different places and look a little different from those in my family, their goals are the same - a chance at success. Central Florida still does a darn good job at that.

The other question I have is, what is the alternative? Just tell the hundreds of thousands of workers  in the tourism economy to leave? We saw that in 2008 - want a repeat? Don’t forget all the tourism revenues support the white collar workers downtown so they’ll have to go also. 

We do need to diversify the economy so all our eggs are not in one basket. We have - how do you think the tens of thousands of tech jobs at CFRP and Seminole County came to be? It’s just that, uniquely in the hospitality industry, Orlando’s theme parks have been incredibly popular and the demand for them has continued to grow.

It was once assumed that Central Florida had reached its theme park max and that future growth would happen internationally in places like China. That would allow a chance to balance our economy with tech and other industries.

Then Harry Potter happened and the process started all over again. It’s safe to say there’s really not been anything quite like it before. Interestingly, unlike many cities who’ve seen jobs disappear to cheaper venues, losing tech, textiles, finance back offices, etc., it’s hard to move the Magic Kingdom. 

One can argue that in 1965 we should have said no to all this. The thing is, no one could ever have predicted the industry that grew here (we thought we were getting a technologically advanced city of the future, but then Walt had the temerity to die).

As shardoon notes, this is a very unique place as a result. Very few people who live here today didn’t know what our economy looked like when they got here. If it’s not your cup of tea, the only real choice at this point is to relocate.

Personally, I revel in the dynamism of my hometown.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by spenser1058
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All those words that Spense said.  That.

 

There are very few people who live anywhere who couldn't find a way to leave if they wanted to.  If you don't like it, you can change it.*

You basically get 3 options with most things in life:

  1. Accept it, good or bad
  2. Ignore it and bury your head in the sand
  3. Reject it, fix it or if it is beyond your fixing (like changing Orlando's entire economic structure) they you move on

I understand there are a few other options sometimes and a lot of blends of partial answers, but basically it comes down to those 3.

 

 

*in the free first world (I know it's not true everywhere)

 

Edited by HankStrong
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8 hours ago, shardoon said:

So go move to Lakeland, Clermont, etc etc. This is what Orlando is, its economy runs on tourism. No different from Vegas. That will never change. If you are a transplant from somewhere else, you knew where you were moving. If you are a native to Orlando, there are many many places within the metro area that are not touched by tourism, such as Winter Park, Winter Garden, etc etc. 

Except I’m not arguing what the economy runs on. Sure, low wages are a nasty side effect but they don’t really affect me at all. My initial post was about the pitfalls of Orlando’s boom: uncontrolled and unrestrained growth are NOT net positives. You suggested Vegas and Orlando are essentially in the same boat. Except they aren’t. Over the last 20 years or so, Las Vegas has averaged anywhere from 35 to 42 million visitors. Some years it went up, other years it went down, but it’s been fairly consistent and manageable.  (https://assets.simpleviewcms.com/simpleview/image/upload/v1/clients/lasvegas/Historical_1970_to_2018_4100bf49-5aba-4686-81bc-49cf15a2b411.pdf)

Contrast this with Orlando. I couldn’t find any definitive numbers for the early part of the decade but in 2005, around 49 million visitors came to Orlando (https://www.floridatrend.com/article/8396/number-of-visitors-to-orlando-down-in-2006). There was a slight drop in 2006 to about 48 million, and then every single year after that like clockwork, Orlando set a new record for visitors, culminating in a staggering 75 million last year. Predictions are by the end of 2029, nearly 105 million people will have visited Orlando. That’s absurd.

Your “go move” comment is irrelevant and unnecessary and unsolicited. I’m all for incremental, sustainable growth, in population, in wages, in visitors, in housing costs, etc. Stagnation is a terrible thing. But explosive growth isn’t good either, especially not in a region that wasn’t designed for it. This is all I was bringing out. If you disagree, I look forward to you explaining why.

Edited by Uncommon

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7 hours ago, HankStrong said:

It's not all bad news either.

I agree with this. There is a lot to love about our city experiencing its renaissance. Still, there are some real concerns. Having just visited Austin and San Francisco in the past 5 months, a lot of my buddies in those areas echo the same exact things: this kind of crazy growth has not been entirely positive. Especially in Austin, the amount of traffic and homeless people I saw compared to when I visited in 2004 was shocking. They’re exactly the same issues I’m seeing now in Orlando.

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3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

All those words that Spense said.  That.

 

There are very few people who live anywhere who couldn't find a way to leave if they wanted to.  If you don't like it, you can change it.*

You basically get 3 options with most things in life:

  1. Accept it, good or bad
  2. Ignore it and bury your head in the sand
  3. Reject it, fix it or if it is beyond your fixing (like changing Orlando's entire economic structure) they you move on

I understand there are a few other options sometimes and a lot of blends of partial answers, but basically it comes down to those 3.

 

 

*in the free first world (I know it's not true everywhere)

 

Lol I’m confused, why are people giving me life lessons or suggestions or their philosophy on how to deal with the fact that I believe this sort of growth isn’t all positive? I’m merely pointing out my opinion, on an online forum designed to, you know, point out your opinion. I don’t see anyone telling others to move or deal with it or accept it because they think Church Street Plaza is an ugly building. So why do it here?

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30 minutes ago, Uncommon said:

My initial post was about the pitfalls of Orlando’s boom: uncontrolled and unrestrained growth are NOT net positives.

I think a lot of the issue is that while our population is growing at a rapid, but manageable rate (under 3%) our visitor growth rate is double that- which does seem a bit unmanaged.

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I’m not certain I’ve encountered a US city trying to curtail the number of visitors by design before ( Daytona seems to be doing it by default so perhaps that should be our model).

I’ve long maintained that one of the things I like best about our tourism industry is that it’s off on its own so that residents can mostly ignore it if they want to while benefiting  from the taxes and jobs it fuels to professionals in places like downtown and WG.

Oddly, there are a number of UP folks that want all those tourists downtown and I concede I’ve never quite understood that.

Transit will become more of an issue as the industry grows. The cities that have generally been successful in making major transit fixes have relied upon the federal government for assistance due to the cost. That obviously won’t work with the current configuration in DC or Tallahassee. We’ll just have to wait to see if the FEC market-based solution is viable and if expanded lines can occur. 

Meanwhile, RCID is working on expanding solar, wetlands mitigation, reduction of single-use plastic and alternative transportation on the Disney campus. That model may also be expanded through cooperation with Orange and Osceola counties. It will be interesting to see how it unfolds.

As to OIA, airports have been considered as one of the primary drivers of a successful economy for at least 60 years. Atlanta, for example, has long used the growth of Hartsfield-Jackson International as the primary mover in that city’s march to become the preeminent city in the Southeast. One need only go back to the ‘50’s before ATL, ummm, took off and it was an open question as to whether Birmingham or Atlanta (they were almost the same size back then) would come to represent the New South. Today, of course, that question seems quaint if not absurd.

 

Edited by spenser1058
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