Metro Orlando Airport News

[Jerry95]

On 11/6/2019 at 7:43 AM, sethM said:

Probably so, Dorian had tons of airtime on TV before it was ever close to FL so you have to imagine there were loads of tourists and business travelers cancelling their plans and staying home. I actually flew in that Monday afternoon before Dorian and MCO was a ghost town. 

MCO was closed for the Tuesday and part of Wednesday during Dorian’s “landfall” - more than enough to impact passenger figures.

[AndyPok1]

As far as "connecting" through Orlando, no, almost no US-based flier will connect.  However, Orlando is a moderately popular connection destination for those outside of the USA, because so many foreign countries flag carriers fly to Orlando, and Orlando then connects to basically every major city in America..

[sethM]

21 hours ago, Jerry95 said:

MCO was closed for the Tuesday and part of Wednesday during Dorian’s “landfall” - more than enough to impact passenger figures.

And they were originally announced they were closed on Monday the Wednesday or Thursday before and then at the last minute announced they’d remain open. 

[orlandouprise]

15 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

As far as "connecting" through Orlando, no, almost no US-based flier will connect.  However, Orlando is a moderately popular connection destination for those outside of the USA, because so many foreign countries flag carriers fly to Orlando, and Orlando then connects to basically every major city in America..

Atlanta unfortunately snagged that "connector" title due to a better geographical location relative to other major US cities...

[jrs2]

23 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

Atlanta unfortunately snagged that "connector" title due to a better geographical location relative to other major US cities...

...and there is some drama from the folks in Birmingham why Atlanta became the major hub and not Birmingham, because of it's slightly more centralized location.  Oddly enough, as of several years ago, Birmingham's airport was expanding because Delta was going to divert some of it's air traffic to it because Hartsfield was and is too busy.

[HankStrong]

11 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...and there is some drama from the folks in Birmingham why Atlanta became the major hub and not Birmingham, because of it's slightly more centralized location.  Oddly enough, as of several years ago, Birmingham's airport was expanding because Delta was going to divert some of it's air traffic to it because Hartsfield was and is too busy.

I will go out of my way to avoid Hartsfield if at all possible.  That place is awful.  I've tried watching my gates and connections.  I've tried watching my timing.  Almost everything fails.

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

...and there is some drama from the folks in Birmingham why Atlanta became the major hub and not Birmingham, because of it's slightly more centralized location.  Oddly enough, as of several years ago, Birmingham's airport was expanding because Delta was going to divert some of it's air traffic to it because Hartsfield was and is too busy.

In the 1950’s, Atlanta and B’ham were about the same size and it was an open question which city would become the capital of the New South.

Delta (originally from Macon and even after  it moved to LA had strong Georgia roots - Trust Company in Atlanta made the loan to bring Delta back) was headquartered in Atlanta after 1941 and was likely to keep its HQ in Atlanta even if B’ham had been more aggressive about expansion.

As it happened, Mayor Billy Hartsfield (yep, same one) did everything possible  to expand Atlanta’s airport.

Coca-Cola was the first big multinational coming out of WWII in the South and they needed more access to routes than B’ham’s stodgy big firm, US Steel. Those corporate politics also led Atlanta to act more cosmopolitan and by the ‘60’s the race was over (although the story continues.

Meanwhile, even today Georgia keeps growing while Alabama (except Huntsville) is going nowhere. Alabama is likely to lose a congressional seat in the 2020 Census.

Bottom line: the future lies in progress, not holding on to the past.

 

[billy]

The only reason Hartsfield is the worlds largest airport is because Atlanta is the only major city with only one airport. It acts like it’s so proud of that accomplishment and all it is is a huge mess. If you add other cities that thought ahead and have multiple airports in the metro, and add all the flights together like O’Hare and Midway together being in the same city NY ‘s 3-4 area airports, All of LA’s 5 airports etc , Hartsfield and Atlanta wouldn’t be bragging all the time. So tired of hearing “ we are the biggest “ give me a break. 

Edited November 11, 2019 by billy

[smileguy]

3 hours ago, billy said:

The only reason Hartsfield is the worlds largest airport is because Atlanta is the only major city with only one airport. It acts like it’s so proud of that accomplishment and all it is is a huge mess. If you add other cities that thought ahead and have multiple airports in the metro, and add all the flights together like O’Hare and Midway together being in the same city NY ‘s 3-4 area airports, All of LA’s 5 airports etc , Hartsfield and Atlanta wouldn’t be bragging all the time. So tired of hearing “ we are the biggest “ give me a break. 

If this ranking on Wikipedia is to be believed, Atlanta was #2 (after NYC) until as recently as 2016 when Los Angeles passed them. Chicago remains a close 4th, followed by Miami, SF, Dallas, and DC.  The next single-airport metro is Denver, coming in at #9.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_busiest_city_airport_systems_by_passenger_traffic

[gibby]

Strange that they lumped Baltimore with Washington and West Palm with Miami but they did not add Guangzhou or Shenzhen or Macau to Hong Kong.

[billy]

Wow never even knew this list existed. Good information. 

[sethM]

9 hours ago, gibby said:

Strange that they lumped Baltimore with Washington and West Palm with Miami but they did not add Guangzhou or Shenzhen or Macau to Hong Kong.

You don’t have to go through customs and immigration twice to fly into Baltimore and go to DC. But if you flew into HKG and went to Shenzhen you would. 

[shardoon]

11 hours ago, gibby said:

Strange that they lumped Baltimore with Washington and West Palm with Miami but they did not add Guangzhou or Shenzhen or Macau to Hong Kong.

There is zero consistency on here of what airports are lumped. West palm is included with Miami even though the airports are over 70 miles apart. Why not add Tampa and St Pete with Orlando, Sanford, Daytona and Melbourne? They did the same thing with NYC......white plains all the ways to Islip.....really? 

[spenser1058]

If you think about it, where would the alternative Atlanta airport have gone. I think today’s Hartsfield -Jackson was the original airport so they didn’t have a second one handy.

As we know, Georgia only has one major city (Atlanta). Birmingham and Chattanooga are 100+ miles, Macon is 80 and Columbus is further than either.

Given the geography, Atlanta’s decision is understandable.

The city’s boosters also would have liked the idea (this is a city, after all, that supposedly had no chance of snagging the Olympics, right?) 

 

[gibby]

2 hours ago, sethM said:

You don’t have to go through customs and immigration twice to fly into Baltimore and go to DC. But if you flew into HKG and went to Shenzhen you would. 

That's true but Shenzhen and Guangzhou together are over 140mm passengers.

[orlandouprise]

4 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

If you think about it, where would the alternative Atlanta airport have gone. I think today’s Hartsfield -Jackson was the original airport so they didn’t have a second one handy.

As we know, Georgia only has one major city (Atlanta). Birmingham and Chattanooga are 100+ miles, Macon is 80 and Columbus is further than either.

Given the geography, Atlanta’s decision is understandable.

The city’s boosters also would have liked the idea (this is a city, after all, that supposedly had no chance of snagging the Olympics, right?) 

 

Dunwoody/Northern perimeter area?

[spenser1058]

1 minute ago, orlandouprise said:

Dunwoody/Northern perimeter area?

I suspect the NIMBY explosion would knock the socks off us even here in Orlando. Don’t mess with the soccer moms!

There’s a reason Hartsfield-Jackson is in Hapeville and it’s not just because it’s close to Chick-Fil-a HQ...

 

[jrs2]

17 hours ago, billy said:

The only reason Hartsfield is the worlds largest airport is because Atlanta is the only major city with only one airport. It acts like it’s so proud of that accomplishment and all it is is a huge mess. If you add other cities that thought ahead and have multiple airports in the metro, and add all the flights together like O’Hare and Midway together being in the same city NY ‘s 3-4 area airports, All of LA’s 5 airports etc , Hartsfield and Atlanta wouldn’t be bragging all the time. So tired of hearing “ we are the biggest “ give me a break. 

"Largest." 

Largest land area, the most gates, the busiest.  People flippantly throw out these designations but usually leave it lumped under the category of "largest" but don't really know which category the designation applies to.

O'Hare in the 1990's had about 165 gates.  MCO has about 122 back in 2004.  O'Hare handles about 83M passengers per year.  Midway has about 22M.  Hartsfield handles about 104M/year  Hartsfield is a monster.  LAX about 87M.  DFW has about 69M

But the other category is O&D flights (origin and destination.  Hartsfield's main business is connecting flights for Delta.  Same with O'Hare ala American and United; DFW with American.  But in O&D flights. JFK, O'Hare, Hartsfield, MIA, OIA, etc, are all roughly on par with each other.

I think the 3 NY-NJ airports combined serve 137M passengers/year.

OIA is the busiest airport in Florida, but MIA plus FTL combined serve way more passengers.

Number of gates:

Hartsfield has 192 gates. 

DFW has 182 gates. 

O'Hare currently has 191 gates; Midway has 43 gates

JFK has 128 gates  Newark has 121 gates; LGA has 40 gates

OIA has 129 gates* (19 gates u/c)

LAX has 128 gates

DEN has 111 gates

McCarran has 110 gates

SFO has 115 gates

MIA has 131 gates; FTL has 63 gates*(will increase to 97 in 2020); PBA has 28 gates

Phoenix has 116 gates

Sea-Tac has 80 gates

Boston has 102 gates

Philly has 126 gates

Charlotte has 106 gates

Houston Bush has 130 gates

Wash Dulles has 113 gates

TPA has 59 gates

Fascinating stuff.  So, from this list above, we can gage the relative sizes of these airports' passenger terminals just by the sheer number of gates they each have.  When OIA completes Terminal C, it will have 148 gates, which falls just under the category of 182-192 gates consisting of ORD, DFW, Hartsfield at the top.  right now, MCO is lumped into the same "size" category as LAX, MIA, Philly, Houston, and JFK 

[spenser1058]

History also plays a role. Before deregulation, the joke was, “When you die, whether you’re going to Heaven or Hell, you first have to change planes in Atlanta.”

Ironically, it was a Georgian (Jimmy Carter) who put in place the rules which changed all that.

Nevertheless, the exploding growth of Atlanta and its increased importance internationally kept H-J growing.

President Carter, Coca-Cola, Delta, Georgia-Pacific, Ted Turner, Andrew Young, Billy Payne and many others played a role in  making Atlanta what it became. The leadership in the city has been amazing, at least when it comes to growth and bringing a backwater region to the attention of an international audience.

[Jvest55]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

"Largest." 

Largest land area, the most gates, the busiest.  People flippantly throw out these designations but usually leave it lumped under the category of "largest" but don't really know which category the designation applies to.

O'Hare in the 1990's had about 165 gates.  MCO has about 122 back in 2004.  O'Hare handles about 83M passengers per year.  Midway has about 22M.  Hartsfield handles about 104M/year  Hartsfield is a monster.  LAX about 87M.  DFW has about 69M

But the other category is O&D flights (origin and destination.  Hartsfield's main business is connecting flights for Delta.  Same with O'Hare ala American and United; DFW with American.  But in O&D flights. JFK, O'Hare, Hartsfield, MIA, OIA, etc, are all roughly on par with each other.

I think the 3 NY-NJ airports combined serve 137M passengers/year.

OIA is the busiest airport in Florida, but MIA plus FTL combined serve way more passengers.

Number of gates:

Hartsfield has 192 gates. 

DFW has 182 gates. 

O'Hare currently has 191 gates; Midway has 43 gates

JFK has 128 gates  Newark has 121 gates; LGA has 40 gates

OIA has 129 gates* (19 gates u/c)

LAX has 128 gates

DEN has 111 gates

McCarran has 110 gates

SFO has 115 gates

MIA has 131 gates; FTL has 63 gates*(will increase to 97 in 2020); PBA has 28 gates

Phoenix has 116 gates

Sea-Tac has 80 gates

Boston has 102 gates

Philly has 126 gates

Charlotte has 106 gates

Houston Bush has 130 gates

Wash Dulles has 113 gates

TPA has 59 gates

Fascinating stuff.  So, from this list above, we can gage the relative sizes of these airports' passenger terminals just by the sheer number of gates they each have.  When OIA completes Terminal C, it will have 148 gates, which falls just under the category of 182-192 gates consisting of ORD, DFW, Hartsfield at the top.  right now, MCO is lumped into the same "size" category as LAX, MIA, Philly, Houston, and JFK 

Yeah this is good analysis here. Thanks!

[HankStrong]

I  agree with @jrs2

 

Statistics are so easily manipulated to fit your agenda.  Largest could mean so many things.  Busiest could mean almost anything.  Which stats are you looking at?  I do like the number of gates, as that is decent indicator, but even then if you have 150 gates and 140 of them aren't being used it isn't a good indicator.  Thankfully, most airports don't have 95% unused gates.

"We're the #1 ranked airport in the world* in 2019"

 

 

 

 

 

*based on a survey of 6 people who work there!  The one guy we interviewed who didn't like it was excluded because he doesn't actually live here.

[orlandouprise]

20 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

History also plays a role. Before deregulation, the joke was, “When you die, whether you’re going to Heaven or Hell, you first have to change planes in Atlanta.”

Ironically, it was a Georgian (Jimmy Carter) who put in place the rules which changed all that.

Nevertheless, the exploding growth of Atlanta and its increased importance internationally kept H-J growing.

President Carter, Coca-Cola, Delta, Georgia-Pacific, Ted Turner, Andrew Young, Billy Payne and many others played a role in  making Atlanta what it became. The leadership in the city has been amazing, at least when it comes to growth and bringing a backwater region to the attention of an international audience.

This.

Atlanta has exploded and become a next tier city because of strong forward thinking leadership and corporate money driving home that agenda. I once thought Orlando could follow in those footsteps (we are similar to the Atlanta of 25-30 years ago )and become the next Atlanta but I don't believe this to be the case anymore. We are just a different animal (tourism centric not corporate) and we lack strong visionary leaders and local corporate money to execute that vision.   While we have some nice momentum going, its just not enough before the next recession. I honestly see Nashville (not even Tampa) taking on that role to become the next Atlanta or moving up to become a next tier city in the Southeast.

[jrs2]

4 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I  agree with @jrs2

 

Statistics are so easily manipulated to fit your agenda.  Largest could mean so many things.  Busiest could mean almost anything.  Which stats are you looking at?  I do like the number of gates, as that is decent indicator, but even then if you have 150 gates and 140 of them aren't being used it isn't a good indicator.  Thankfully, most airports don't have 95% unused gates.

"We're the #1 ranked airport in the world* in 2019"

 

 

 

 

 

*based on a survey of 6 people who work there!  The one guy we interviewed who didn't like it was excluded because he doesn't actually live here.

what's even more interesting about the list of gates, is that if you then rank the airports based on busiest, some of these airports are using their gates to their potential- or they are way over capacity.  Sea-Tac has only 80 gates.

The problem with MCO is that there is only one security zone per 2 airsides.  Hartsfield technically has an A side and a B side, but I can't remember whether there is just one security zone for the whole thing.  Not that it matters, though, because most of their traffic never leaves the airsides.

 

[orlandouprise]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

what's even more interesting about the list of gates, is that if you then rank the airports based on busiest, some of these airports are using their gates to their potential- or they are way over capacity.  Sea-Tac has only 80 gates.

The problem with MCO is that there is only one security zone per 2 airsides.  Hartsfield technically has an A side and a B side, but I can't remember whether there is just one security zone for the whole thing.  Not that it matters, though, because most of their traffic never leaves the airsides.

 

I thought Hartsfield had A,B.C,D,E and F?

[jrs2]

18 hours ago, orlandouprise said:

I thought Hartsfield had A,B.C,D,E and F?

I meant landside terminal.  they split it into two like at MCO