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14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

If you look at an overhead view of OSI on google map, you will see most of the gates occupied by an Allegiant Airlines jet.  There are quite a few of them there.  The renovations are complete and it looks like they added a handful of new gates at a new airside.  It looks like they have 16 physical gate gantries and 10 of them have jets parked at them in the overhead shot, with 4 more parked to the side on the tarmac.

I didn't see any of the overseas charter carriers though.  I think the lockdown might have killed all of that business.

I've never really looked at that airport from an aerial view, just a map view.  They really painted themselves into a corner, didn't they?  If they ever want to expand it's going to be really rough.

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1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

I've never really looked at that airport from an aerial view, just a map view.  They really painted themselves into a corner, didn't they?  If they ever want to expand it's going to be really rough.

OSI was built on the site of the old Sanford Naval Air Station so I wonder if they were locked into what was already there.

I also wonder if they suspected just how much growth they’d have. In the South, at least, having four airports with regularly scheduled airlines in contiguous counties is kind of unusual.

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9 minutes ago, dcluley98 said:

There are actually 5- including Sanford . . . Orlando, Daytona Beach, Melbourne, and Leesburg.   

Leesburg has airlines? Wow! Their website says no commercial flights:

https://www.leesburgflorida.gov/government/departments/airport/index.php


Lakeland keeps trying but hasn’t had much luck. If they ever do, that would be another one.

Edited by spenser1058
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3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I've never really looked at that airport from an aerial view, just a map view.  They really painted themselves into a corner, didn't they?  If they ever want to expand it's going to be really rough.

yeah.  that newest airside kind of blocks eastern expansion of the terminal building...

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28 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

yeah.  that newest airside kind of blocks eastern expansion of the terminal building...

You'll wind up like La Guardia where you have to take a taxi to switch terminals.  They have a shuttle, but we landed in B on Southwest and were flying out of C on Delta.  We didn't book a tight layover, but we got delayed.  The bus was pulling away when we came out and the guy working there said they were running slow that day.  We actually took a cab to switch planes.  Thankfully, we only had carry-on and we made it.  

Granted, most times we don't totally switch airlines, but it certainly has happened plenty of times.  I was expecting a train, connector,  or something other than some old janky busses.

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Just flew into OSI/SFB this week (and boy are my arms tired). Just like that pun, OSI continues to be a stale, tired joke of an airport. 

The design of the expansion (aesthetics and functionality) is terrible. TSA area is larger than it used to be, but the new layout still produces bottlenecks. The new "food court" is tucked off to the side and far from most of the new gates. Not that it matters, because on my trip this week none of the new dining and retail options were open (on both my outbound and inbound trips). In fact, there was only one dining option open in the entire airport ( a rather sad looking  Cheeburger Cheeburger).    

Maybe it's staffing shortages, or maybe the airport leadership just doesn't care. My hunch is the latter. I've been flying out of there for years, as Allegiant offers the easiest way to get to where my family lives. And this airport has always had a half-ass approach to its operations. They've got Allegiant locked in and will continue to do the bare minimum as they have that market squarely captured. 

And what makes it all the more pathetic is that while you can't compare it to major airports like MCO (that's apples to oranges), you can compare it to small and mid-size regional airports. And there it falls far short. I  regularly fly into in Knoxville, Tennessee. That airport is bright, clean, modern and has amenities that are actually open. A shocking concept. 

End of rant. 

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6 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Just flew into OSI/SFB this week (and boy are my arms tired). Just like that pun, OSI continues to be a stale, tired joke of an airport. 

The design of the expansion (aesthetics and functionality) is terrible. TSA area is larger than it used to be, but the new layout still produces bottlenecks. The new "food court" is tucked off to the side and far from most of the new gates. Not that it matters, because on my trip this week none of the new dining and retail options were open (on both my outbound and inbound trips). In fact, there was only one dining option open in the entire airport ( a rather sad looking  Cheeburger Cheeburger).    

Maybe it's staffing shortages, or maybe the airport leadership just doesn't care. My hunch is the latter. I've been flying out of there for years, as Allegiant offers the easiest way to get to where my family lives. And this airport has always had a half-ass approach to its operations. They've got Allegiant locked in and will continue to do the bare minimum as they have that market squarely captured. 

And what makes it all the more pathetic is that while you can't compare it to major airports like MCO (that's apples to oranges), you can compare it to small and mid-size regional airports. And there it falls far short. I  regularly fly into in Knoxville, Tennessee. That airport is bright, clean, modern and has amenities that are actually open. A shocking concept. 

End of rant. 

Based on what you’ve said, it’s probably worth noting that most of the airport’s CEOs have been either former Seminole County politicians (former Sanford mayor and good ol’ boy Larry Dale was among the worst) or staff. It’s quite incestuous over there.

Edited by spenser1058
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22 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Just flew into OSI/SFB this week (and boy are my arms tired). Just like that pun, OSI continues to be a stale, tired joke of an airport. 

The design of the expansion (aesthetics and functionality) is terrible. TSA area is larger than it used to be, but the new layout still produces bottlenecks. The new "food court" is tucked off to the side and far from most of the new gates. Not that it matters, because on my trip this week none of the new dining and retail options were open (on both my outbound and inbound trips). In fact, there was only one dining option open in the entire airport ( a rather sad looking  Cheeburger Cheeburger).    

Maybe it's staffing shortages, or maybe the airport leadership just doesn't care. My hunch is the latter. I've been flying out of there for years, as Allegiant offers the easiest way to get to where my family lives. And this airport has always had a half-ass approach to its operations. They've got Allegiant locked in and will continue to do the bare minimum as they have that market squarely captured. 

And what makes it all the more pathetic is that while you can't compare it to major airports like MCO (that's apples to oranges), you can compare it to small and mid-size regional airports. And there it falls far short. I  regularly fly into in Knoxville, Tennessee. That airport is bright, clean, modern and has amenities that are actually open. A shocking concept. 

End of rant. 

I think they've just sort of adopted the Allegiant way with the airport.  If we don't have it, you don't need it.  They've put all their eggs in that basket.  Now that (at least I think) all the Euro airlines have bolted and they are down to just Allegiant and two rip-offs of Allegiant that have a whopping 20 planes between them, I think they've just locked into Allegiant as the future.  Flair only flies around 9 flights a week to Orlando and only seasonally.  Swoop only flies around 6 flights a week to Orlando.  Swoop lists it as seasonal as well, but expanding.  Both sites are extremely difficult to work, so that's an approximation.

I'm just not a no-frills, nickel & dime airline sort of guy.  I'm not super fancy, either, but I just can't stand the ultra cheap route.  I was an adult the first time I flew and I certainly know it's expensive for families.  If low-cost airlines existed when I was a child we might have flown on one.  I just have no patience for an advertised cost of $49 which turns into $300 roundtrip with all the add-ons. 

The fees are insane on Allegiant:

  • Seat selection fee
  • Priority access fee
  • Food & Beverage fees
  • Electric Carrier Usage fee (this one is the absolute worst of them all as it's just a normal fee on every single segment on each ticket, but they lie about it and try to bump it out as something unexpected)
  • Call Center fee (AKA real person fee)
  • Checked bag fee
  • Carry-on bag fee

That doesn't even include normal fees that other airlines charge for changing tickets, cancelling, carrying a pet, etc.  

I've just moved to a point in life where I just want to buy a ticket and not have it broken down.  I also was a little weirded out on Allegiant when a mom was sitting nowhere near any of her 3 children on the flight and kept walking around handing them snacks and PB&J sandwiches and checking on them.  That's not normal for flying.

 

 

 

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2 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I think they've just sort of adopted the Allegiant way with the airport.  If we don't have it, you don't need it.  They've put all their eggs in that basket.  Now that (at least I think) all the Euro airlines have bolted and they are down to just Allegiant and two rip-offs of Allegiant that have a whopping 20 planes between them, I think they've just locked into Allegiant as the future.  Flair only flies around 9 flights a week to Orlando and only seasonally.  Swoop only flies around 6 flights a week to Orlando.  Swoop lists it as seasonal as well, but expanding.  Both sites are extremely difficult to work, so that's an approximation.

I'm just not a no-frills, nickel & dime airline sort of guy.  I'm not super fancy, either, but I just can't stand the ultra cheap route.  I was an adult the first time I flew and I certainly know it's expensive for families.  If low-cost airlines existed when I was a child we might have flown on one.  I just have no patience for an advertised cost of $49 which turns into $300 roundtrip with all the add-ons. 

The fees are insane on Allegiant:

  • Seat selection fee
  • Priority access fee
  • Food & Beverage fees
  • Electric Carrier Usage fee (this one is the absolute worst of them all as it's just a normal fee on every single segment on each ticket, but they lie about it and try to bump it out as something unexpected)
  • Call Center fee (AKA real person fee)
  • Checked bag fee
  • Carry-on bag fee

That doesn't even include normal fees that other airlines charge for changing tickets, cancelling, carrying a pet, etc.  

I've just moved to a point in life where I just want to buy a ticket and not have it broken down.  I also was a little weirded out on Allegiant when a mom was sitting nowhere near any of her 3 children on the flight and kept walking around handing them snacks and PB&J sandwiches and checking on them.  That's not normal for flying.

 

Agreed that OSI has the same vibe as Allegiant (i.e., low cost + low class). I only fly Allegiant for quick access to my family in East Tennessee. Hard to beat a direct flight, and I can deal with the lack of amenities for a short flight that doesn't stop in Atlanta or Charlotte.

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32 minutes ago, FLClarkKent said:

Agreed that OSI has the same vibe as Allegiant (i.e., low cost + low class). I only fly Allegiant for quick access to my family in East Tennessee. Hard to beat a direct flight, and I can deal with the lack of amenities for a short flight that doesn't stop in Atlanta or Charlotte.

There are a ton of things I'll do travel-wise not to connect in Atlanta.  I avoid it like the plague.  They aren't the only one, but Delta *loves* the 40-50 minute ATL layover and that's insane.  It takes 40 minutes to get between two close gates, much less switching terminals.

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4 hours ago, HankStrong said:

I think they've just sort of adopted the Allegiant way with the airport.  If we don't have it, you don't need it.  They've put all their eggs in that basket.  Now that (at least I think) all the Euro airlines have bolted and they are down to just Allegiant and two rip-offs of Allegiant that have a whopping 20 planes between them, I think they've just locked into Allegiant as the future.  Flair only flies around 9 flights a week to Orlando and only seasonally.  Swoop only flies around 6 flights a week to Orlando.  Swoop lists it as seasonal as well, but expanding.  Both sites are extremely difficult to work, so that's an approximation.

I'm just not a no-frills, nickel & dime airline sort of guy.  I'm not super fancy, either, but I just can't stand the ultra cheap route.  I was an adult the first time I flew and I certainly know it's expensive for families.  If low-cost airlines existed when I was a child we might have flown on one.  I just have no patience for an advertised cost of $49 which turns into $300 roundtrip with all the add-ons. 

The fees are insane on Allegiant:

  • Seat selection fee
  • Priority access fee
  • Food & Beverage fees
  • Electric Carrier Usage fee (this one is the absolute worst of them all as it's just a normal fee on every single segment on each ticket, but they lie about it and try to bump it out as something unexpected)
  • Call Center fee (AKA real person fee)
  • Checked bag fee
  • Carry-on bag fee

That doesn't even include normal fees that other airlines charge for changing tickets, cancelling, carrying a pet, etc.  

I've just moved to a point in life where I just want to buy a ticket and not have it broken down.  I also was a little weirded out on Allegiant when a mom was sitting nowhere near any of her 3 children on the flight and kept walking around handing them snacks and PB&J sandwiches and checking on them.  That's not normal for flying.

My take on this is as follows- it's more about OSI than Allegiant:

Daytona has DAB.  I was shocked to learn in the mid-90's when I was told Sanford had an airport with Intl flights.  I didn't understand how they could even exist being so close to MCO and DAB.  In the late '90's or early 2000's they got Allegiant or their predecessor to fly domestically from there- and that was a HUGE step for OSI...Huge.

911 happened.  Yet OSI bounced back and hit record numbers a few years later.  They kept opening up new domestic markets with Allegiant.  It seemed like they were announcing new routes at least once every 5-6 weeks, while at the same time, MCO was growing as well.

DAB built their new terminal in like 1992 or so, and it looks like an MCO airside concourse with 6 gates.  It's small but it's nice.  OSI, not so much but it's ok.  How much air traffic goes through DAB today?  Not that much compared to OSI.

My point is that I think OSI value engineered on how to get the most gates it could for the cheapest amount of money.  I think they will spend money that supports new routes, i.e., ticketing and more gates.  As for major cosmetics, I think they would need a major airline there to provide them more revenue before spending that money.  Their airline portfolio is not diversified.  If they can land some cargo traffic and another busy airline that would be good.  But I think they know that getting another busy airline is going to be tough.

This is an airport that lost Monarch Airlines which served 3 British markets; they lost IcelandAir to MCO, they lost Interjet (Mexico City) to MCO, Thomas Cook (Britain) to MCO, and they lost Allegiant to MCO but then they returned to OSI shortly thereafter. All of these airline losses took place right when the economy was recovering in the 2010's.   

If anything, I view OSI as a survivor airport amidst all of the poaching that took place by MCO and the economic downturn that affected the aviation industry.  In the end, I think it is impressive what they've done.

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10 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

My take on this is as follows- it's more about OSI than Allegiant:

Daytona has DAB.  I was shocked to learn in the mid-90's when I was told Sanford had an airport with Intl flights.  I didn't understand how they could even exist being so close to MCO and DAB.  In the late '90's or early 2000's they got Allegiant or their predecessor to fly domestically from there- and that was a HUGE step for OSI...Huge.

911 happened.  Yet OSI bounced back and hit record numbers a few years later.  They kept opening up new domestic markets with Allegiant.  It seemed like they were announcing new routes at least once every 5-6 weeks, while at the same time, MCO was growing as well.

DAB built their new terminal in like 1992 or so, and it looks like an MCO airside concourse with 6 gates.  It's small but it's nice.  OSI, not so much but it's ok.  How much air traffic goes through DAB today?  Not that much compared to OSI.

My point is that I think OSI value engineered on how to get the most gates it could for the cheapest amount of money.  I think they will spend money that supports new routes, i.e., ticketing and more gates.  As for major cosmetics, I think they would need a major airline there to provide them more revenue before spending that money.  Their airline portfolio is not diversified.  If they can land some cargo traffic and another busy airline that would be good.  But I think they know that getting another busy airline is going to be tough.

This is an airport that lost Monarch Airlines which served 3 British markets; they lost IcelandAir to MCO, they lost Interjet (Mexico City) to MCO, Thomas Cook (Britain) to MCO, and they lost Allegiant to MCO but then they returned to OSI shortly thereafter. All of these airline losses took place right when the economy was recovering in the 2010's.   

If anything, I view OSI as a survivor airport amidst all of the poaching that took place by MCO and the economic downturn that affected the aviation industry.  In the end, I think it is impressive what they've done.

H**l hath no fury like an economy traveler told his Allegiant flight flew into OSI not OIA and hence he was ineligible to use Disney’s Magical Express. At least they no longer have that problem…

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15 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

H**l hath no fury like an economy traveler told his Allegiant flight flew into OSI not OIA and hence he was ineligible to use Disney’s Magical Express. At least they no longer have that problem…

I was at OSI and witnessed someone confused why they could not find their flight. They booked OIA not OSI. 

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You guys are confusing me... isn't Sanford Airport SFB? If I'm taking a short hop, to say AVL, I love SFB. I can park 150 yards from the gate and breeze thru security in about a minute. It's not great for most destinations, but I'll suffer having to use Allegient to be able to do that.

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11 hours ago, AmIReal said:

You guys are confusing me... isn't Sanford Airport SFB? If I'm taking a short hop, to say AVL, I love SFB. I can park 150 yards from the gate and breeze thru security in about a minute. It's not great for most destinations, but I'll suffer having to use Allegient to be able to do that.

Yeah the whole OSI/OIA thing is confusing.  These are SFB and MCO.

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