Metro Orlando Airport News

[AndyPok1]

What do you mean by Skytrain?  There is already a train connecting Term C and The AB Main Terminal.  

[jrs2]

6 hours ago, CFL Rez said:

jetBlue and Spirit have an agreement to merge (in principle) but the actuaL merge is at least a couple of years away. They still need several approvals (DOJ, FAA) and to plan exactly how the merger will take place (combine staff, management,  fleets, airport operations,  routes and hundreds of other contracts) . Until then, they will continue to operate as separate carriers. 

The hotel is still planned. It should parallel the new walkway on the South side. I think GOAA has their hands very full with getting Terminal C open next month. I wouldn't expect much movement on the hotel until next year.

GOAA reports their passenger numbers on a rolling 12 moths. As noted above, they expect to be  close, if not exceed 2019. GOAA's budget year ends next month (runs Oct thru Sept). They'll release some comparisons to 2021 and 2019 I'm sure. Should be a pretty good indicator of how things are going. 

Thank you for the info.  It's cool that the hotel isn't just conceptual; rather that they will begin development of it in the very near future.

As for JetBlue/ Spirit, I am not losing sleep over it or anything, but, last month I dropped off a friend at Spirit check-in on B- Side and they were quickly directed to JetBlue check-in on A- Side to check in for an international flight they were taking.  Another couple of people here said that there needed to be X number of approvals before their "operations" "merged." 

So, I think you know my next question:  how does that correlate with what I just stated?  Does anybody really know?, 

It doesn't seem like they are operating as separate carriers at present (sans the two actual fleets of jets they each have in their respective inventories).  BTW, this isn't a rumor; I actually parked in Terminal Top Parking and went to JetBlue with them while this was happening to make sure they didn't miss their flight.

Comments?  Observations?

[spenser1058]

From JetBlue’s website:

“A combined JetBlue-Spirit will bring together the best of both airlines to create a customer-centric, low-fare alternative to the dominant “Big Four” airlines. Customers will benefit from access to more routes, greater connectivity, and better onboard experiences – while the JetBlue Effect triggers lower fares from legacy airlines and brings more choices to more customers.

For now, nothing changes as we remain independent companies. All tickets and points remain valid, and you can continue to book as you always have.”

Note the last paragraph.

 

Edited August 17, 2022 by spenser1058

[uncreativeusername]

2 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

What do you mean by Skytrain?  There is already a train connecting Term C and The AB Main Terminal.  

There's an eventual APM loop planned for the entirety of Terminal C & D. 

I have no inside knowledge, but I would think this would be included in a later phase of Terminal C...until there are more gates, what's the point of an APM?

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

From JetBlue’s website:

“A combined JetBlue-Spirit will bring together the best of both airlines to create a customer-centric, low-fare alternative to the dominant “Big Four” airlines. Customers will benefit from access to more routes, greater connectivity, and better onboard experiences – while the JetBlue Effect triggers lower fares from legacy airlines and brings more choices to more customers.

For now, nothing changes as we remain independent companies. All tickets and points remain valid, and you can continue to book as you always have.”

Note the last paragraph.

...as stated in print...yet in practice...(at least per above)

[AndyPok1]

2 hours ago, jrs2 said:

...as stated in print...yet in practice...(at least per above)

Airlines can sell other airlines tickets.  This is nothing new or special and has nothing to do with the merger.

[shardoon]

6 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

What do you mean by Skytrain?  There is already a train connecting Term C and The AB Main Terminal.  

If you look at the the south terminal plans fully built out, you will see a skytrain in the plans similar to what DFW has. I'm sure there are images floating on the internet or on the MCO website master plan. 

[jrs2]

12 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Airlines can sell other airlines tickets.  This is nothing new or special and has nothing to do with the merger.

What does that mean? Which airline(s) would be considered "other"? Here there's merger talk between Spirit and Jetblue, someone buys a Spirit ticket, goes to check in, then has to check in thru Jetblue, then flies out on Spirit.  Is this what you're talking about? Because I've never seen this before with other us airlines. And it's not like Spirit sent them to the United desk, they sent them tonJetblue, the company that "is" buying them.  And this is happening between these two airlines now, when they've been discussing merger or actually merging.

So I guess my point is that with mergers, you don't need the MSM to christen the act in print or TV for it to be official when it has already been so in practice, or at least a slow roll out of it...

So far nobody in this thread has given a legit explanation of what I originally posted about and inquired about regarding Spirit and Jetblue.

[codypet]

16 hours ago, uncreativeusername said:

There's an eventual APM loop planned for the entirety of Terminal C & D. 

I have no inside knowledge, but I would think this would be included in a later phase of Terminal C...until there are more gates, what's the point of an APM?

IIRC that's supposed to be on the secure airside of the new terminal.  I believe it goes up when Terminal C gets fully built out.  I wonder when GOAA pulls the trigger on Terminal D.  I've been told D would be a replacement for A&B while they go back and clean sheet A&B.  Traveling through the JetBlue terminal recently, I understand why they feel like they need to clean sheet the north terminal now.

[AmIReal]

13 hours ago, AndyPok1 said:

Airlines can sell other airlines tickets.  This is nothing new or special and has nothing to do with the merger.

Correct as long as the airline belongs to IATA. The clearing house allows any member/ desk to sell tix on another member's route. Not all airlines participate.

[shardoon]

2 hours ago, codypet said:

IIRC that's supposed to be on the secure airside of the new terminal.  I believe it goes up when Terminal C gets fully built out.  I wonder when GOAA pulls the trigger on Terminal D.  I've been told D would be a replacement for A&B while they go back and clean sheet A&B.  Traveling through the JetBlue terminal recently, I understand why they feel like they need to clean sheet the north terminal now.

Well, if that was the case, they would need to build out the entire Terminal D side all at once if they are planning on wiping clean A/B. If they do phases and wipe West side North Terminal in one swoop, then Terminal D would have to have overnight 50 gates built as a replacement. 

 

What I think a good plan would be is to continue the phased approach for Terminal C. Build that out to entirety.  After terminal C is built, build half of terminal D. Once that half is built all at once as a big phase, mothball the west (older) side of the North Terminal Complex. Start work on the final half of Terminal D and once that is open, moth ball the East side of the North complex. After all of that, demo the old airsides and start a new master plan for the North terminal and build it smarter.

In 50 years, we can have a fully built out new terminal A, new terminal B, terminal C, and terminal D all connected by a sterile skytrain. Who knows, beyond my lifespan, there are more than enough options for a terminal E, F, G, and H located somewhere  on Heinzelman Blvd. 

 

[spenser1058]

21 minutes ago, shardoon said:

Well, if that was the case, they would need to build out the entire Terminal D side all at once if they are planning on wiping clean A/B. If they do phases and wipe West side North Terminal in one swoop, then Terminal D would have to have overnight 50 gates built as a replacement. 

 

What I think a good plan would be is to continue the phased approach for Terminal C. Build that out to entirety.  After terminal C is built, build half of terminal D. Once that half is built all at once as a big phase, mothball the west (older) side of the North Terminal Complex. Start work on the final half of Terminal D and once that is open, moth ball the East side of the North complex. After all of that, demo the old airsides and start a new master plan for the North terminal and build it smarter.

In 50 years, we can have a fully built out new terminal A, new terminal B, terminal C, and terminal D all connected by a sterile skytrain. Who knows, beyond my lifespan, there are more than enough options for a terminal E, F, G, and H located somewhere  on Heinzelman Blvd. 

 

By then, Leesburg International will have regularly scheduled airlines!

[shardoon]

57 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

By then, Leesburg International will have regularly scheduled airlines!

No, by then they will have changed the name to Leesburg Orlando International Airport ..... lol

[spenser1058]

3 minutes ago, shardoon said:

No, by then they will have changed the name to Leesburg Orlando International Airport ..... lol

Well played, sir!

[CFL Rez]

On 8/17/2022 at 11:22 AM, shardoon said:

I know you mentioned construction bids were opened on completing phase 1A, so hopefully the new terminal will not looked unfinished on one end.  When would you expect active construction to restart on 1A?  Also, do you know the timeline on consideration of a skytrain for terminal C? I know that was in the final master plan, but did not know when it would be considered? Pahse 2 of terminal C? Phase 3? Or would they wait on that until they break ground on terminal D? 

Phase 2 should see the first part of the Terminal C APM constructed with it initially going from the Airside hub of the next phase (North end) to the current (about to open) Landside building. It will be expanded with additional Terminal expansion phases to eventually serve all the Airside hubs of Terminals C & D.

[CFL Rez]

On 8/17/2022 at 3:15 PM, jrs2 said:

Thank you for the info.  It's cool that the hotel isn't just conceptual; rather that they will begin development of it in the very near future.

As for JetBlue/ Spirit, I am not losing sleep over it or anything, but, last month I dropped off a friend at Spirit check-in on B- Side and they were quickly directed to JetBlue check-in on A- Side to check in for an international flight they were taking.  Another couple of people here said that there needed to be X number of approvals before their "operations" "merged." 

So, I think you know my next question:  how does that correlate with what I just stated?  Does anybody really know?, 

It doesn't seem like they are operating as separate carriers at present (sans the two actual fleets of jets they each have in their respective inventories).  BTW, this isn't a rumor; I actually parked in Terminal Top Parking and went to JetBlue with them while this was happening to make sure they didn't miss their flight.

Comments?  Observations?

Spirit recently split their check in operations by moving International check in to the A side of the Terminal (near (jetBlue). So your friend still checked in with Spirit, just at their new area near jetBlue.

[AndyPok1]

On 8/18/2022 at 8:39 AM, jrs2 said:

What does that mean? Which airline(s) would be considered "other"? Here there's merger talk between Spirit and Jetblue, someone buys a Spirit ticket, goes to check in, then has to check in thru Jetblue, then flies out on Spirit.  Is this what you're talking about? Because I've never seen this before with other us airlines. And it's not like Spirit sent them to the United desk, they sent them tonJetblue, the company that "is" buying them.  And this is happening between these two airlines now, when they've been discussing merger or actually merging.

So I guess my point is that with mergers, you don't need the MSM to christen the act in print or TV for it to be official when it has already been so in practice, or at least a slow roll out of it...

So far nobody in this thread has given a legit explanation of what I originally posted about and inquired about regarding Spirit and Jetblue.

I've worked in the airline industry, specifically setting up check-in terminals and kiosks.  I was literally in the Willis Tower at United HQ when the cutover from Continental to United happened.  There are a variety of reasons why what happened to you and your friend could have happened.  None of them are merger related.

On 8/18/2022 at 9:12 AM, AmIReal said:

Correct as long as the airline belongs to IATA. The clearing house allows any member/ desk to sell tix on another member's route. Not all airlines participate.

For example, AA can sell you tickets on United, Delta, JetBlue, and many others.  They often won't, but they can.  I've seen it happen many times you think you book a ticket THROUGH one airline, but your FLIGHT is on a different airline.

On 8/18/2022 at 9:25 PM, CFL Rez said:

Spirit recently split their check in operations by moving International check in to the A side of the Terminal (near (jetBlue). So your friend still checked in with Spirit, just at their new area near jetBlue.

This seems like the most likely answer for your specific scenario though.  International is often not coupled with Domestic because of gate and plane requirements.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, AndyPok1 said:

I've worked in the airline industry, specifically setting up check-in terminals and kiosks.  I was literally in the Willis Tower at United HQ when the cutover from Continental to United happened.  There are a variety of reasons why what happened to you and your friend could have happened.  None of them are merger related.

For example, AA can sell you tickets on United, Delta, JetBlue, and many others.  They often won't, but they can.  I've seen it happen many times you think you book a ticket THROUGH one airline, but your FLIGHT is on a different airline.

This seems like the most likely answer for your specific scenario though.  International is often not coupled with Domestic because of gate and plane requirements.

I appreciate everyone's attempt to enlighten the unenlightened on the airline industry.

But why can't this simply be a slow roll out of a merger that has already been agreed to in public and approved of behind closed doors?  I don't get all the excuse-making.

[spenser1058]

32 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

I appreciate everyone's attempt to enlighten the unenlightened on the airline industry.

But why can't this simply be a slow roll out of a merger that has already been agreed to in public and approved of behind closed doors?  I don't get all the excuse-making.

Because they’re following the law? You can’t de facto make a merger happen, especially when there are significant antitrust concerns.

I know with Cheetohead, he believed “l’etat c’est moi” and what he said went,  but we have actually returned to rule of law now.

https://www.google.com/search?q=l%27etat+c%27est+moi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=HwGO_C-60mxtKM&imgdii=CVhCRE3Ayh3NwM

From Merriam-Webster

Both JetBlue and Spirit are public companies, btw, which also brings in SEC rules. It’s the SEC’s job to maintain the integrity of the markets and to make sure even the smallest trader has access to all info.

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, spenser1058 said:

Because they’re following the law? You can’t de facto make a merger happen, especially when there are significant antitrust concerns.

I know with Cheetohead, he believed “l’etat c’est moi” and what he said went,  but we have actually returned to rule of law now.

https://www.google.com/search?q=l%27etat+c%27est+moi&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&hl=en-us&client=safari#imgrc=HwGO_C-60mxtKM&imgdii=CVhCRE3Ayh3NwM

From Merriam-Webster

Both JetBlue and Spirit are public companies, btw, which also brings in SEC rules. It’s the SEC’s job to maintain the integrity of the markets and to make sure even the smallest trader has access to all info.

Dang, Anakin.  Obi-Wan must have really messed you up worse than anyone could have possibly imagined on the lava shores of Mustafar.

[spenser1058]

12 minutes ago, jrs2 said:

Dang, Anakin.  Obi-Wan must have really messed you up worse than anyone could have possibly imagined on the lava shores of Mustafar.

The thing is, most of this is basic civics. It scares me that smart people in 45% of the US seem to have forgotten how the country’s supposed to work.

[jrs2]

https://www.flightglobal.com/jetblue-to-move-to-new-orlando-airport-terminal/128145.article

this is an older article from 2018.  what is interesting about it is that they reference the 19 gates in Terminal C (including Phase 1B), but state that there will be 27 aircraft aprons.  In the picture, it shows a few of the gate buildings having two aircraft gantries each.

actually, I just checked google map satellite view and several of the gate buildings already have two gantries each; and it looks like with just 1A opening there will be 21-22 gates operating.

Edited August 29, 2022 by jrs2

[jrs2]

https://www.acppubs.com/articles/8499-orlando-international-airport-embarks-on-41b-expansion

there is a shot in this article from 2021 I believe that shows the mass of this project; it is taller than the typical Terminal A & B airsides.  Landside is a different issue b/c of terminal top parting on A/B.  But the arrivals concourse on top is pretty tall.  The only thing on A/B that comes close or is as impressive is the Hyatt side where Airsides 2 & 4 are, where the APM stations are glass, and where the wall to them is also glass. 

People that fly in on so many airlines from Airsides 1 & 3 never truly experience the grandeur of the other side where Hyatt is- and it is impressive- objectively so, compared to a lot of airports around the US and the world. 

[jrs2]

https://www.orlandomagazine.com/say-hello-to-orlando-airports-new-terminal/

Here's a newer article from Orlando Magazine from Aug 11. on the new terminal.

[HankStrong]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

https://www.flightglobal.com/jetblue-to-move-to-new-orlando-airport-terminal/128145.article

this is an older article from 2018.  what is interesting about it is that they reference the 19 gates in Terminal C (including Phase 1B), but state that there will be 27 aircraft aprons.  In the picture, it shows a few of the gate buildings having two aircraft gantries each.

actually, I just checked google map satellite view and several of the gate buildings already have two gantries each; and it looks like with just 1A opening there will be 21-22 gates operating.

I count 22, as well.