Metro Orlando Airport News

[codypet]

Airside 4 looks like it stays busy with Hawaii,  Air Canada, Aero Mexico,, Avianca, Virgin, Delta, Sunwing, Suncountry, Viva, Volaris,  WestJet, LATAM, Air Transat, COPA and Bahamas Air.  

I agree with you about Airside 3.  Gives United and AA room to stretch out.

Airside 2 stays the way it is with mostly Southwest and a pair of other airlines

Airside 1 is interesting and provides and opportunity for an update or expansion.

We got dates.

Edited September 8, 2022 by codypet

[jrs2]

8 minutes ago, codypet said:

Airside 4 looks like it stays busy with Hawaii,  Air Canada, Aero Mexico,, Avianca, Virgin, Delta, Sunwing, Suncountry, Viva, Volaris,  WestJet, LATAM, Air Transat, COPA and Bahamas Air.  

I agree with you about Airside 3.  Gives United and AA room to stretch out.

Airside 2 stays the way it is with mostly Southwest and a pair of other airlines

Airside 1 is interesting and provides and opportunity for an update or expansion.

I didn't realize there were that many other Intl carriers still in Airside 4.  

[codypet]

@jrs2I didn't either.  When I was typing the list holy crap, I was thinking Delta was all that was gonna be left there, but that it would be fine.  Didn't realized that airside was packed like sardines in there.

[shardoon]

6 hours ago, codypet said:

So currently in Airside 1 going to Terminal C

Azul - Jet Blue - Iceland Air (Departures) - Norse - Spirit

Currently in Airside 3 going to Terminal C

Spirit

Currently in Airside 4 going to Terminal C

Aer Lingus - Carribean Airlines - British Airways - Emirates - GOL  - Iceland Air (Arrivals) - Luftansa

My assumption was that most of these were in Airside 1 was because their ticketing is in Terminal A even though their gates are in Terminal B.  Pretty confusing.  Good thing Terminal C will hopefully clean some of that up.

I do not believe Spirit is moving to terminal C. 

Also, in the article about Frontier moving to ground loading at Denver in the Sentinel, an interesting tidbit was dropped. Aparently Fronteir has been begging OIA for more gates and wasn't getting them because of capacity issues. That is suddenly gonna change with a lot of airlines moving to terminal C. I see Frontier grabbing a lot of those gates and ultimately expanding further their hub at OIA. 

[codypet]

8 minutes ago, shardoon said:

I do not believe Spirit is moving to terminal C. 

Also, in the article about Frontier moving to ground loading at Denver in the Sentinel, an interesting tidbit was dropped. Aparently Fronteir has been begging OIA for more gates and wasn't getting them because of capacity issues. That is suddenly gonna change with a lot of airlines moving to terminal C. I see Frontier grabbing a lot of those gates and ultimately expanding further their hub at OIA. 

Is the Spirit/Jetblue deal off?  That's why I had them coupled together.  JetBlue is moving so I envision Spirit would dissolve and JetBlue would stay in C (Like what happened to Airtran when SW bought them.  SW just stayed in 2 and the Airtran gates moved to 2).  I doubt JetBlue would move to C only to acquire Spirit and keep Spirit's gates in Airsides 1 & 3 (or keep the JetBlue and Spirit gates in Airside 1 and give up Spirits Airside 3 Gates).  That would be a mess for MCO and JetBlue.

Interesting about Frontier.  Now's their chance.

Edited September 9, 2022 by codypet

[shardoon]

3 minutes ago, codypet said:

Is the Spirit/Jetblue deal off?  That's why I had them coupled together.  JetBlue is moving so I envision Spirit would dissolve and JetBlue would stay in C (Like what happened to Airtran when SW bought them.  SW just stayed in 2 and the Airtran gates moved to 2).  I doubt JetBlue would move to C only to acquire Spirit and keep Spirit's gates in Airsides 1 & 3 (or keep the JetBlue and Spirit gates in Airside 1 and give up Spirits Airside 3 Gates).  That would be a mess for MCO and JetBlue.

Interesting about Frontier.  Now's their chance.

Ahhhhh....... yes. Thats still on as far as I know. In theory once Spirit is no more, I anticipate Jetblue's presence at terminal C will at least increase by 50%

[HankStrong]

11 hours ago, codypet said:

Is the Spirit/Jetblue deal off? 

It's not that it's off, it's that it hasn't finished and won't finish (if it does) for quite a while.  There are legal hurdles and federal approvals and logistics and whatnot up in the air.

Merging airlines is a very complicated process whether it's a friendly or hostile takeover or (as in this case) a mixture of both.

[codypet]

I'm not saying Spirit will be in Terminal C on Sept 21, but they will eventually be vacating their North Terminal Gates at some point  in the near future.  From the looks of it though what's being vacated in 3 of the 4 airsides shouldn't have too much problem getting filled back in by the remaining airlines barring something catastrophic.

[AndyPok1]

I'm all for Spirit getting out of my airside.

[jrs2]

15 hours ago, codypet said:

@jrs2I didn't either.  When I was typing the list holy crap, I was thinking Delta was all that was gonna be left there, but that it would be fine.  Didn't realized that airside was packed like sardines in there.

I was surprised they never built out the "third spoke" in Airside 2.  I assumed when they built it, it was with only two concourses b/c of funding, and then the downturn in air traffic didn't justify it's build out.  And then when OIA started hitting those really big numbers, the South Terminal Complex was back on the drawing boards so they decided to leave Airside 2 alone.  And if they really do bulldoze all of A&B in fifty or so years, there's no reason to build it out.

[jrs2]

16 hours ago, shardoon said:

I do not believe Spirit is moving to terminal C. 

Also, in the article about Frontier moving to ground loading at Denver in the Sentinel, an interesting tidbit was dropped. Aparently Fronteir has been begging OIA for more gates and wasn't getting them because of capacity issues. That is suddenly gonna change with a lot of airlines moving to terminal C. I see Frontier grabbing a lot of those gates and ultimately expanding further their hub at OIA. 

https://airwaysmag.com/frontier-nonstops-san-diego-orlando/

[spenser1058]

Over in Tampa, they’ve received a go-ahead for a $787.4m Airside D terminal:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/2022/09/08/after-pandemic-delays-tampa-international-airport-gets-green-light-for-new-terminal/

From The Tampa Bay Times 

It’s their first new Airside in over 17 years.

 

[shardoon]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I was surprised they never built out the "third spoke" in Airside 2.  I assumed when they built it, it was with only two concourses b/c of funding, and then the downturn in air traffic didn't justify it's build out.  And then when OIA started hitting those really big numbers, the South Terminal Complex was back on the drawing boards so they decided to leave Airside 2 alone.  And if they really do bulldoze all of A&B in fifty or so years, there's no reason to build it out.

I heard a rumor..... not sure if it is true...... that the reason for no third spoke was that the control tower at the time, not sure if it was the current one or the old one....... couldn't see the area where a third spoke would have been for ground control. 

[codypet]

7 hours ago, shardoon said:

I heard a rumor..... not sure if it is true...... that the reason for no third spoke was that the control tower at the time, not sure if it was the current one or the old one....... couldn't see the area where a third spoke would have been for ground control. 

The current tower and I can confirm that.  There was a blind spot. 

[RedStar25]

On 9/9/2022 at 8:01 AM, HankStrong said:

It's not that it's off, it's that it hasn't finished and won't finish (if it does) for quite a while.  There are legal hurdles and federal approvals and logistics and whatnot up in the air.

Merging airlines is a very complicated process whether it's a friendly or hostile takeover or (as in this case) a mixture of both.

A friend of mine that works for JetBlue corporate said it is going through, but yes there are legal hurdles and monopoly issues to tackle. Orlando will be the JetBlue hub along with Fort Lauderdale. Which would explain why flights are being moved from Fort Lauderdale to Orlando. 

[spenser1058]

OUC to sell big piece of commercial-industrial land near airport for $45 million
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/environment/os-ne-ouc-sells-airport-property-20220912-iyvcjuch3ne7tgkh5mfly7p45a-story.html

From The Sentinel 

“The land is just east of Orange Avenue and Weatherbee Road and its south border is neighbored by OUC’s coal-hauling railway, a section of track corridor that figures critically into expansion plans of the local SunRail commuter trains and the private Brightline Trains. A natural gas pipeline also adjoins the land.”

Edited September 12, 2022 by spenser1058

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

OUC to sell big piece of commercial-industrial land near airport for $45 million
https://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/environment/os-ne-ouc-sells-airport-property-20220912-iyvcjuch3ne7tgkh5mfly7p45a-story.html

From The Sentinel 

“The land is just east of Orange Avenue and Weatherbee Road and its south border is neighbored by OUC’s coal-hauling railway, a section of track corridor that figures critically into expansion plans of the local SunRail commuter trains and the private Brightline Trains. A natural gas pipeline also adjoins the land.”

interesting.  that land is undeveloped at present

[shardoon]

On 9/9/2022 at 2:56 PM, spenser1058 said:

Over in Tampa, they’ve received a go-ahead for a $787.4m Airside D terminal:

http://www.tampabay.com/news/transportation/2022/09/08/after-pandemic-delays-tampa-international-airport-gets-green-light-for-new-terminal/

From The Tampa Bay Times 

It’s their first new Airside in over 17 years.

 

Few things..... I don't know much about tampa.....Tampa...... but was this really needed there? I do not think they have a huge amount of traffic. 

[spenser1058]

I have no idea how accurate this source is but they place Tampa right between Honolulu and Portland. They do have a significant amount of traffic in the cooler months due to snowbirds/tourists and I suspect more business traffic than we do (not including conventions, obviously).

Ic this source is legit, it has ORL (Orlando Executive) at #21. If true, I think all of you folks who want to close it down can now understand why it’s not going anywhere…(it’s a bit dated going back to 2019 - MCO is now #7, not #12).

https://gettocenter.com/airports/continent/north-america

Edited September 13, 2022 by spenser1058

[shardoon]

Back to the Tampa thing........ based on most recent rolling 12 month numbers numbers, not sure this isn't simply a keeping up with the Jones'es. 

Tampa has essentially 355,000 people per gate. Orlando is running at 395,000 per gate without terminal C. Even after Orlando's terminal C opens, they are still gonna be at 351,000.  Just for reference, when Terminal C broke ground, Orlando was at about 425,000.

Granted the projected growth back then for Orlando air traffic has been and always be exponentially higher than Tampa. 

Tampa doesn't need to do this right now. 

19 minutes ago, spenser1058 said:

I have no idea how accurate this source is but they place Tampa right between Honolulu and Portland. They do have a significant amount of traffic in the cooler months due to snowbirds/tourists and I suspect more business traffic than we do (not including conventions, obviously).

Ic this source is legit, it has ORL (Orlando Executive) at #21. If true, I think all of you folks who want to close it down can now understand why it’s not going anywhere…(it’s a bit dated going back to 2019 - MCO is now #7, not #12).

https://gettocenter.com/airports/continent/north-america

FYI, These numbers are wrong. Orlando was close to 51 million

Edited September 13, 2022 by shardoon

[spenser1058]

Maybe Tampa prefers to get out in front? It’s generally been considered a much easier airport to use than MCO. One assumes that’s a priority for them.

[shardoon]

10 hours ago, spenser1058 said:

Maybe Tampa prefers to get out in front? It’s generally been considered a much easier airport to use than MCO. One assumes that’s a priority for them.

I get that, but its still close to a billion dollars. It's either that or Orlando waited too long. I wonder what thresholds other airports used? One thing with Orlando that we absolutely could not overcome was the airside design with 2 huge bottlenecks (although they did do some amazing things redesigning the lobbies to make TSA as efficient as it can get). So expanding existing airsides was never an option. 

 

I just ran Atlanta's historical high number and they are well over 500,000 per gate. Maybe it's a little skewed because they do not need as much landside infrastructure due to mostly in transit passengers. 

Edited September 13, 2022 by shardoon

[shardoon]

I do not understand. From this article, they make it like the Phase 1A 4 gate expansion happened......it clearly did not. Maybe they mean money was allocated to restart it? 

https://www.orlandoairports.net/press/2022/09/13/orlando-internationals-new-terminal-c-arriving-on-schedule/

Edited September 13, 2022 by shardoon

[Jerry95]

On 9/13/2022 at 1:15 PM, shardoon said:

I do not understand. From this article, they make it like the Phase 1A 4 gate expansion happened......it clearly did not. Maybe they mean money was allocated to restart it? 

https://www.orlandoairports.net/press/2022/09/13/orlando-internationals-new-terminal-c-arriving-on-schedule/

That’s what they mean, the 4 gate expansion is back underway.

[jrs2]

Terminal C opened yesterday...

https://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/airline-news/2022/09/20/orlando-airport-terminal-c-opens/8005192001/