Metro Orlando Airport News

[shardoon]

3 hours ago, jrs2 said:

https://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2023/03/27/florida-international-airport-traffic-passengers.html

...an excerpt...

Six airline operators helped the region's airport see a 19.6% increase in passenger traffic for the 12-month period — more than 52.06 million passengers, up from 43.5 million for the same period last year.

Monthly traffic was 4.41 million, up 21.4% from 3.63 million in February 2022, said airport data.

The passenger traffic growth was helped by six new or resuming flights:

• Air Transat flights to Halifax, Nova Scotia; and Moncton, New Brunswick
• Avelo Airlines flights to Raleigh/Durham, North Carolina; and Wilmington, Delaware
• Breeze Airways flights to Orange County, California
• Frontier Airlines (Nasdaq: ULCC) flights to El Paso, Texas; Knoxville, Tennessee; Ontario, Canada; and San Diego
• JetBlue (Nasdaq: JBLU) flights to Los Angeles
• SunWing Airlines flights to Toronto

After the record breaking March gets factored in, rolling 12 month may break 53 million. With the added capacity at Terminal C and all the new start ups filling in the space Jet Blue left at the North Terminal, we may be pushing 60 million by years end. Phase 2 better start progressing. 

[jrs2]

54 minutes ago, shardoon said:

After the record breaking March gets factored in, rolling 12 month may break 53 million. With the added capacity at Terminal C and all the new start ups filling in the space Jet Blue left at the North Terminal, we may be pushing 60 million by years end. Phase 2 better start progressing. 

this is kinda like "if you build it they will come." so the demand for 60m/year is there but the capacity/infrastructure-of-flights-to-gates isn't.  so the more gates they build, the more routes the airlines commit to and therefore the more travelers book those flights?  is that pretty much the dynamic here? 

[shardoon]

Just now, jrs2 said:

this is kinda like "if you build it they will come." so the demand for 60m/year is there but the capacity/infrastructure-of-flights-to-gates isn't.  so the more gates they build, the more routes the airlines commit to and therefore the more travelers book those flights?  is that pretty much the dynamic here? 

I think it is twofold. Yes, the decreased bottleneck of MCO with the opening of terminal C helps. The rapid expansion of Breeze and Avelo.....which are brand new carriers plays another roll. The last roll is the post covid catapult with traveling. Compound that with Epic Universe, if we don't hit 60 million this year, we will next year. 

[shardoon]

Wow, memory lane. How depressing it was back then. The good news is that their original projections prior to covid was hitting 53 million in the end of 2020. Obviously covid hit and the rest is history.  Phil brown projected that it would take at least 5 years to recover to pre covid levels. Well, by next month, it is possible that we would have hit the 53 million.  Talk about a quick rebound and then some. Interestingly enough, this article talks about a tram style people mover that was scrapped from the terminal C plan............... ahhhhhh.....what? 

 https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2020/05/07/orlando-s-airport-gauging-the-post-coronavirus-comeback

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, shardoon said:

Wow, memory lane. How depressing it was back then. The good news is that their original projections prior to covid was hitting 53 million in the end of 2020. Obviously covid hit and the rest is history.  Phil brown projected that it would take at least 5 years to recover to pre covid levels. Well, by next month, it is possible that we would have hit the 53 million.  Talk about a quick rebound and then some. Interestingly enough, this article talks about a tram style people mover that was scrapped from the terminal C plan............... ahhhhhh.....what? 

 https://www.mynews13.com/fl/orlando/news/2020/05/07/orlando-s-airport-gauging-the-post-coronavirus-comeback

remember the track OIA was on pre-911?  that sent it back many years.  growth and expansion...  that was like WWI and covid was like WWII. 

[codypet]

14 hours ago, jrs2 said:

remember the track OIA was on pre-911?  that sent it back many years.  growth and expansion...  that was like WWI and covid was like WWII. 

OIA people also mention the recession halting the expansion plans in 2009 too.

[jrs2]

5 hours ago, codypet said:

OIA people also mention the recession halting the expansion plans in 2009 too.

I'm like...build now before the next thing happens...

[jrs2]

https://www.aviationpros.com/airports/article/21292716/airport-business-2023-projects-of-the-year-winner-orlando-international-airport-terminal-c

[shardoon]

Politics aside, maybe we will finally get a direct flight to the Far East out of this? I definitely think the Orlando tourism market can handle a Tokyo route, especially with Brightline around for South Florida side trips.....

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-reportedly-going-to-japan-20230407-melmcksyxbfnpglkbvzjbpgvfu-story.html

[prahaboheme]

23 hours ago, shardoon said:

Politics aside, maybe we will finally get a direct flight to the Far East out of this? I definitely think the Orlando tourism market can handle a Tokyo route, especially with Brightline around for South Florida side trips.....

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-reportedly-going-to-japan-20230407-melmcksyxbfnpglkbvzjbpgvfu-story.html

 OIA doesn’t have an international carrier with a hub. Any flights to Tokyo go through LAX, SF, JFK because airlines here fly them where it’s most economical.

DeSatan can take his joyride to Japan on Florida taxpayer dollars. I’m thankful I’m not one of them. 

[shardoon]

3 hours ago, prahaboheme said:

 OIA doesn’t have an international carrier with a hub. Any flights to Tokyo go through LAX, SF, JFK because airlines here fly them where it’s most economical.

DeSatan can take his joyride to Japan on Florida taxpayer dollars. I’m thankful I’m not one of them. 

Well, I see you couldn't handle the politics aside comment. Too many people like that these days and it a damn shame. 

However, Orlando behaves differently with regards to travel. It is a world class tourist destination which does attract a lot of end point travel. Even with that, I think South Florida paired up with Brightline does potentially make it more of a viable route. 

[jrs2]

On 4/7/2023 at 2:52 PM, shardoon said:

Politics aside, maybe we will finally get a direct flight to the Far East out of this? I definitely think the Orlando tourism market can handle a Tokyo route, especially with Brightline around for South Florida side trips.....

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-desantis-reportedly-going-to-japan-20230407-melmcksyxbfnpglkbvzjbpgvfu-story.html

JAL.  they fly into O'Hare (among others...).  It would be awesome.  We already got Emirates.

We really need that Chinese airline...but JAL probably has the routes.

[HankStrong]

We need that international hub status for sure, but that's not coming anytime soon.  It's weird that it's not, because we certainly have the tourist numbers for it.

 

It would be nice to have KLM or Lufthansa.  JAL, as mentioned above, would be killer.  

[shardoon]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

JAL.  they fly into O'Hare (among others...).  It would be awesome.  We already got Emirates.

We really need that Chinese airline...but JAL probably has the routes.

Although I feel Orlando can handle JAL or ANA on its own based on tourism, with or without side trips to Miami, it would be great if one of our main carriers were part of a major alliance to streamline any connections. Unfortunately the closed one to that is Jet Blue, but they only have a loose affiliation with AA, but are not formally part of One World. 

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

We need that international hub status for sure, but that's not coming anytime soon.  It's weird that it's not, because we certainly have the tourist numbers for it.

 

It would be nice to have KLM or Lufthansa.  JAL, as mentioned above, would be killer.  

do you mean as a hub or airline, because we have Lufthansa already?

[HankStrong]

17 hours ago, jrs2 said:

do you mean as a hub or airline, because we have Lufthansa already?

As an international hub.  I think Orlando, especially an Orlando with a greatly expanded MCO, is a great spot for more international flights. 

I can take Virgin Atlantic/BA to London or Aer Lingus to Dublin or Emirates to Dubai.  I think there are a few Caribbean, Mexican, Central/South American, & Canadian (which aren't hard international flights) airlines that do one-offs .  There are some seasonal non-stop flights to Europe, as well.  Those are all limited.

JetBlue is really expanding their market and they might be our first hope.  Although, they don't do Asia/Africa/Europe yet (outside of NY to London).  I just think it would be nice for the massive millions of tourists to not have to layover in Miami, London, Atlanta, LA, NYC, or somewhere else.

Edited April 11 by HankStrong

[leondecollao]

3 hours ago, HankStrong said:

As an international hub.  I think Orlando, especially an Orlando with a greatly expanded MCO, is a great spot for more international flights. 

I can take Virgin Atlantic/BA to London or Aer Lingus to Dublin or Emirates to Dubai.  I think there are a few Caribbean, Mexican, Central/South American, & Canadian (which aren't hard international flights) airlines that do one-offs .  There are some seasonal non-stop flights to Europe, as well.  Those are all limited.

JetBlue is really expanding their market and they might be our first hope.  Although, they don't do Asia/Africa/Europe yet (outside of NY to London).  I just think it would be nice for the massive millions of tourists to not have to layover in Miami, London, Atlanta, LA, NYC, or somewhere else.

Would be awesome but hard to see us getting international hub status with anyone before Miami does. Perhaps British airlines considering the number of Brits visiting Orlando regularly but hard to see Asian flights here imo. 

[shardoon]

The problem is that our main carriers, even the ones that have essentially a hub presence, such as jet blue, are not part of any airline alliance. Southwest, Jet Blue, Spirit, and Frontier have no airline alliance affiliation.  If you get a major foreign airline using Orlando as a base for sending people on connecting flights, they usually do it via a codeshare agreement.  Orlando cannot offer that. This is why I am hoping Brightline makes some agreements with the airlines. 

[AndyPok1]

The only way that's happening is if UA tries to make a play for the southeast.  The small domestic carriers aren't international (I'm not counting carribean/latam), so they offer nothing to the alliances.  Same way RyanAir or WestJet aren't part of alliances.  

[HankStrong]

On 4/15/2023 at 1:50 PM, AndyPok1 said:

The only way that's happening is if UA tries to make a play for the southeast.  The small domestic carriers aren't international (I'm not counting carribean/latam), so they offer nothing to the alliances.  Same way RyanAir or WestJet aren't part of alliances.  

Since I made my comments last week, I found out more. 

JetBlue announced last week that it is adding Amsterdam and apparently Paris has already started.  That's London (Heathrow and Gatwick), Paris, and now Amsterdam.  They are rumored to be looking at Edenborough, Dublin, Frankfurt, and Munich.  They might start getting some more international attention.

[jrs2]

1 hour ago, HankStrong said:

Since I made my comments last week, I found out more. 

JetBlue announced last week that it is adding Amsterdam and apparently Paris has already started.  That's London (Heathrow and Gatwick), Paris, and now Amsterdam.  They are rumored to be looking at Edenborough, Dublin, Frankfurt, and Munich.  They might start getting some more international attention.

Wow!  that helps explain why they're in Terminal C.  So I'm assuming they have larger jets in their fleet for those intl routes...

[bqknight]

1 hour ago, jrs2 said:

Wow!  that helps explain why they're in Terminal C.  So I'm assuming they have larger jets in their fleet for those intl routes...

They use a modified version of the A321 (A321LR). As of right now, all of their European flights leave out of Boston or NY. I wonder if they would ever add direct flights to Europe from FLL/MCO. Wonder if it's even possible with the aircraft they have. 

[jrs2]

3 hours ago, bqknight said:

They use a modified version of the A321 (A321LR). As of right now, all of their European flights leave out of Boston or NY. I wonder if they would ever add direct flights to Europe from FLL/MCO. Wonder if it's even possible with the aircraft they have. 

good point b/c route-wise, they pretty much fly right over the Eastern Seaboard en route...which is about a 2-3 hr flight just to get to NY/BOS...so...why not just connect, right?

[shardoon]

16 hours ago, bqknight said:

They use a modified version of the A321 (A321LR). As of right now, all of their European flights leave out of Boston or NY. I wonder if they would ever add direct flights to Europe from FLL/MCO. Wonder if it's even possible with the aircraft they have. 

Cannot do it with the current jetblue planes. Those planes have a range of 4000 to 4500 miles depending on passenger count and configuration. A recent flight on Virgin from Orlando to London was about 4500 miles. So it slightly varies depending on the path, but that's not enough wiggle room for a planned flight as they need a little fuel left over for emergencies. So unfortunately, unless jetblue invests in some wide body aircraft, which I do not think they are gonna do, this isn't happening. Currently, the further narrow body flight from Orlando are to Iceland and to Brasilia which each clock in at about 3500 miles, but they also use 737 max 8s.

Here are the longest narrow body routes

https://simpleflying.com/worlds-longest-narrowbody-flights-this-week/#:~:text=At 4%2C074 miles (6%2C557km,detailed in the following table.

Here is that Virgin flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR92/history/20230417/2305Z/KMCO/EGLL

Edited April 18 by shardoon

[HankStrong]

22 hours ago, bqknight said:

They use a modified version of the A321 (A321LR). As of right now, all of their European flights leave out of Boston or NY. I wonder if they would ever add direct flights to Europe from FLL/MCO. Wonder if it's even possible with the aircraft they have. 

6 hours ago, shardoon said:

Cannot do it with the current jetblue planes. Those planes have a range of 4000 to 4500 miles depending on passenger count and configuration. A recent flight on Virgin from Orlando to London was about 4500 miles. So it slightly varies depending on the path, but that's not enough wiggle room for a planned flight as they need a little fuel left over for emergencies. So unfortunately, unless jetblue invests in some wide body aircraft, which I do not think they are gonna do, this isn't happening. Currently, the further narrow body flight from Orlando are to Iceland and to Brasilia which each clock in at about 3500 miles, but they also use 737 max 8s.

Here are the longest narrow body routes

https://simpleflying.com/worlds-longest-narrowbody-flights-this-week/#:~:text=At 4%2C074 miles (6%2C557km,detailed in the following table.

Here is that Virgin flight.

https://flightaware.com/live/flight/VIR92/history/20230417/2305Z/KMCO/EGLL

 

This is great info about the aircraft and all, but while the London and Amsterdam flights only run from Boston and NY, the Paris flight is from MCO.  

https://www.jetblue.com/route-map

 

 

EDIT: THIS POST IS INCORRECT.  I have found better data and what I said here is misrepresented by JetBlue on their website.  See later post for details.

Edited April 18 by HankStrong