Urban Apartment Boom (Raleigh)

[Jones_]

Thoughts about today's N&O article? http://www.newsobserver.com/2015/01/22/4496893_big-man-of-downtown-raises-alarm.html

My thoughts (and post) be over in the Coffee House

[orulz]

Updated the first page of the thread to also include Crabtree Valley. Maybe Centennial Campus needs a category too since there is a proposal at Avent Ferry & Varsity and even one at Gorman & Tryon. Not to mention the recently completed dorms on campus itself.

[Jones_]

I hadn't thought much about the area, but thanks for adding that in. There are very definite nodes of apartment development. If you know numbers of new buildings for Crabtree and North Hills I'd be interested. For downtown I mentally break it into three areas....downtown proper, cameron village (including the Morgan roundabout area) and NC State area. Downtown could be further split into Glenwood area and the CDB. Anyway all that just to recap the number of buildings in each area and construction updates in downtown proper.

Cameron Village has 2 up, 1 planned plus the Morgan roundabout has 1 up and 1 under construction. 5 total.

NC State has 1 up, 1 planned and 2 under construction. (Hillsborough St area that is)

Downtown as of today:

Devon: Apartments being leased. Ground floor still being completed. 

Skyhouse: Nearly complete. Tower crane is down. Connection to the parking deck being made.

Elan, Lincoln and El are all about neck and neck with exteriors being finished. El looks a lot better with the black trim now.

Edison, Link and Gramercy are all about neck and neck with 1st or 2nd story columns being poured. Edison is going vertical fastest though since its wood frame units on the concrete commercial pedestal like El is. 

[Jones_]

As predicted. Lots of new stuff not even online yet. At least the 'luxury' pricing might abate a tad. 

[Green_man]

Proposal submitted to Planning Commission and City Council for a mixed-use building at Ridgewood Shopping Center to replace the Tripps, Breuggers building and the parking lot they just re-did.

 

Site Plan 16-15 on the City's "Current Development" website.  Ground floor commercial, 150 residential units above, 79' building height, and probably some parking below the building based on the grade change.

 

I've been thinking that this sort of development would become a trend for suburban shopping centers to cash in on the walkable trend by replacing outparcel buildings and parking lots with mixed-use mid-rises.  If it wasn't for the NIMBY Cameron Park, I'd say the banks on the south side of Clark across from Cameron Village would probably follow with something similar.

[orulz]

Thanks for the pointer, and I agree - the outparcels and parking lots of suburban shopping centers are some of the best opportunities in town for infill development. It's easy to see why Ridgewood is among the first targeted since it's in such a desirable neighborhood. Mission Valley jumps out as another one that could use similar treatment. But really, I could see this happening at many older strip malls all over town.

 

I also agree that the low rise commercial buildings allong Hillsborough and Clark at the edge of Cameron Park would make great redevelopment targets, but I would hold that they should be low-rise, as in three stories. Live-work would be my first choice along Clark, but residential-only townhomes or shorter mixed-use office buildings would work as well.

[ctl]

Will miss the Tripps... no telling how often I've eaten there, going back to when it was T.K. Tripps and Raleigh didn't have as many choices as it does now. Like the Rock-Ola Cafes and the Darryls from the 70s and 80s, the Tripps are drifting into history.

[Jones_]

Thanks for the pointer, and I agree - the outparcels and parking lots of suburban shopping centers are some of the best opportunities in town for infill development. It's easy to see why Ridgewood is among the first targeted since it's in such a desirable neighborhood. Mission Valley jumps out as another one that could use similar treatment. But really, I could see this happening at many older strip malls all over town.

 

I also agree that the low rise commercial buildings allong Hillsborough and Clark at the edge of Cameron Park would make great redevelopment targets, but I would hold that they should be low-rise, as in three stories. Live-work would be my first choice along Clark, but residential-only townhomes or shorter mixed-use office buildings would work as well.

Mission Valley took a baby step of sorts when it had that apartment building built in between the two commercial blocks. 

Density and mixed use are grand and necessary pieces of a well functioning city, but most of these suburban shopping centers are A) horribly unsafe for pedestrians outside their confines and B) horribly connected to the rest of the city, adjacent properties etc. I guess Mission Valley, Ridgewood and Cameron Village jump out since they are better situated in those regards but anything out Capital/Falls of Neuse/Six Forks/Creedmoor/Glenwood is doomed to be unworkable if you cram in more crap but don't improve the connectivity, or pedestrian access of the property. 

[orulz]

Sure there are plenty of shopping centers where that sort of redevelopment wouldn't make sense for a very long time, but there are others where you might be surprised. I think there are a LOT of nodes throughout the city, and even perhaps in Cary, where approaching redevelopment and densification incrementally could eventually lead to little walkable nodes somewhat akin to Cameron Village or Five Points popping up all over the city.

 

To me, in the first stages of redevelopment, the urban form of the surrounding area isn't critical. Most people will have cars anyway to get around, so for them, walkability is just a bonus. But if you build apartments, sited properly, in the parking lot of shopping centers with grocery stores, restaurants, and other basic service retail, then that would get even people who own cars to walk for at least some trips. This introduces walkability and sets the stage for a pedestrian culture to start growing in the area.

 

Add to the mix a major bus line (improved by the upcoming Wake transit plan of course), then a portion of the people who are already walking around their neighborhood on foot to go to the store might get the idea that they don't need to get their car out of the parking deck to go to work after all. Over time, as the node continues to develop, then proper urban form and connectivity can follow.

 

A few other spots I would put high on the list are the shopping centers at Duraleigh/Edwards Mill, and Lake Boone/Wycliff, or any of the shopping centers along Wake Forest Rd near Six Forks, all of which are in fairly affluent areas with a lot of multifamily residential development already nearby, making compatibility and neighborhood opposition less of an issue.

 

A second tier might include locations like the triangle between Falls of Neuse, Old Wake Forest, and Millbrook, or the intersection of Six Forks and Millbrook as proposed in the Six Forks corridor plan, or the intersection of Falls of Neuse and Spring Forest. All of these are in areas that are probably considered desirable enough that rents would be high enough to eventually warrant redevelopment.

[Euphorius]

Saw this on the N&O site. They have a nice downtown housing development map with stats about each project. There is a rendering of West Apartments that I hadn't seen. It looks a little better than I was expecting. http://www.newsobserver.com/news/business/real-estate-news/article16508282.html

[bj-26]

All of those apartment projects are fantastic. Now let's see more Skyhouse-type projects with a little height!

[Jones_]

West St really needs this. And it needs a streetscape package ala Glenwood on top of that, but I suppose maybe the apartments need to come first. Getting more urban form off the strips and on to the adjacent blocks is key to getting the critical mass needed for things like grocery stores and other livability things. And if this rendering holds true, it seems like it embraces the City with its big windows, and as such you hopefully get people engaged with the City and not just walled up in their limited access downtown fortress. 

Edited March 29, 2015 by Jones_

[RALNATIVE]

 

 

Skyhouse is looking pretty good these days...

[Jones_]

One of the most urban street level views we have I'd say. This angle also looks good taken from the far corner of Moore Square with the park in the foreground. 

[bj-26]

A very nice  23-story building that went up quickly, serves a purpose and didn't take up a lot of space. Would like to see a few more similar to this spread around downtown.

[Green_man]

 

But WHY are the using those white wall panels AGAIN?  Can they not tell how bad they aged for West@North?  Unless they are going for the "yellowish-stained off-white" look.

[RALNATIVE]

 

But WHY are the using those white wall panels AGAIN?  Can they not tell how bad they aged for West@North?  Unless they are going for the "yellowish-stained off-white" look.

 

 

This design is definitely an improvement.

[orulz]

I am having trouble following exactly what is going on with Sandreuter's plans for West Apartments.

As we know, he has proposed two apartment buildings, call them West I and West II. this bizjournals article covers the purchase by Sandreuter of the land for West II. But then it says he purchased it for "Investment Purposes" and also says he plans to offer the West Apartments land up for sale to another developer. So my head is sort of spinning. Is he planning on developing West II himself and selling West I? Selling both? Developing both? Anyone care to clear this up for me?

[Dub_Ag]

He's selling West I and retaining West II for future investment purposes.

[Green_man]

He's selling West I and retaining West II for future investment purposes.

 

I'm still confused.  Developing West 1 first then selling?  Or just selling the land?  The TBJ article sounds like the latter, but then why are there new renderings?

[Jones_]

From developer to flipper. Easier money. I just hope he doesn't hamstring development by sitting on land and asking what he *thinks* its worth instead of letting it go so a good proposal can go forward. I'm no genius, but maybe get an REIT lined up to buy it after you bring it out of the ground? Thats what the Crescent folks did….Maybe he's aiming for the Flying Saucer block and since he can only be bothered by one project at a time, has kicked the West stuff to the curb…?

[RALNATIVE]

With Gregg, I think that it's all about land value appreciation. Buy cheap now and flip later. I've noted this several times before.

 

His plans may change several times before we ever see anything built on those sites.

[Spatula]

http://photos.clearskyimages.com/2015-02-skyhouse-raleigh-aerial-photos/h478368c#h1648b0ec

 

New aerials of downtown with the Skyhouse and Charter Square 1 nearly complete.

[Jones_]

A friend of mine in the Hue said his offer to renew his lease had a drop in the rental rate....as we would hope and suspect would happen, concessions are indeed happening....

[Jones_]

TBJ

Count me as surprised they are claiming 34% lease rate right off the bat, but hey, that's a positive despite my own doubts. Slide show in the article...