Urban Apartment Boom (Raleigh)

[Jones_]

I think Sandreuter has another one on the Skyhouse block too but not sure if a site plan was submitted. 

[orulz]

That one is Edison which is accounted for in Green_man's list.

[RALNATIVE]

The 616 Oberlin and West Apartment II projects have shown up on the city's submitted site plan website - so this got me to thinking about all the proposed apartment buildings that have been announced recently or not started construction yet:

 

1307 Hillsborough -   160 units

616 Oberlin -             215 units

Lincoln -                   224 units

West 1 -                  150 units

West 2 -                   177 units

L -                            100 units

Skyhouse -                320 units

Edison -                    239 units

Link Apts -                203 units

Gramercy -                207 units

 

Total:  1,995 units planned

 

Any I left off?  Have any of these been officially shelved?

 

I know that this seems like a lot of apts in central Raleigh, but with Red Hat and Citrix ramping up employees, as well as all of the other young professionals that are likely to flood the area in coming years, this more than likely will not be enough. Developers are smart and have more insight into growth trends than the average person.

[orulz]

I would lean on the side of this being an apartment bubble, but for the fact that there are a bunch of older apartment complexes around town that these can poach renters from at slightly lower price points. If they have too much trouble filling up, they can drop rents and compete in that space. They won't have trouble filling up, although they may have trouble filling up at the price points they want to.

 

This is what happened to Manor Six Forks at Six Forks & Atlantic. They built the complex thinking they would get the rents of a near-downtown location, but that didn't happen. The developers couldn't cover their debts and went into foreclosure and the complex went to auction. The buyer lowered the rents to something that's still a premium over most suburban complexes, but lower than downtown or North Hills.

[ctl]

I agree with Orulz. Some of these 2000 units might be deferred when the time comes to commit hard money to build-out. Likewise for the similar number of units near Crabtree or, for that matter, ongoing development at Brier Creek. None of these developers wants to see low occupancy or low price points. And if most of the projects are built simultaneously, there will be cost pressures because capacity among construction subcontractors still hasn't recovered from 2008.

Edited September 24, 2013 by ctl

[Green_man]

Based on what I've heard and just my non-educated gut feeling - it seems like Lincoln, L, and Skyhouse are the most likely to get off the ground - hopefully with each of those breaking ground by the end of the year. 

[RALNATIVE]

There are also the Cameron Village units at the intersection of Oberlin and Clark that are well underway, or is that the 616 Oberlin complex?

Edited September 24, 2013 by RALNATIVE

[Jones_]

I think 616 is the building farther up Oberlin from Clark. Green Man was listing those not yet out of the ground. All in all I think its a bubble at the $2/ft price being pushed. There really aren't many older places downtown at $1/ft anymore and Cameron Ct is determined to command a price of $1.50 now as is Wilmont. Raleigh Apts, St Mary's, and the numerous 80 year old quads around town are about all you have in the cheaper range (not counting carved up houses being allowed to deteriorate by people like VG Murray). Anyway, the investors backing the new places will have to suck up a lower return to fill them up is my prediction as well though Citrix and Red Hat will help a lot to prop up the overall market. 

[orulz]

An apartment developer has purchased the land at Wilmington & Polk. This is the part of Blount Street Commons across the street from the Halifax Mall that is supposed to be developed as a midrise apartment complex.

[RALNATIVE]

It's exciting to see all of these new units planned for downtown, but the major concern that I have is one that always lingers in the background as new downtown residential development is discussed. Unless there is additional retail to support all of these downtown newcomers, these residential developments will suffer. Most folks, including me, have an issue with always having to drive to Cameron Village and points beyond to do the basics like grocery shopping, going to the drug store, and getting dry cleaning.

 

The popular argument seems to be that the increase in downtown population will drive the need for more downtown retail, but I somewhat disagree with that philosophy. Having such retail will actually attract more residents downtown. We already have significant progress in job growth (i.e. Red Hat, Citrix, etc.) downtown. Now the next priority should be retail that will attract residents, as well as support the needs of the growing number of downtown workers and current residents.

Edited October 2, 2013 by RALNATIVE

[orulz]

Retail follows rooftops is the adage I have always heard.

 

Right now, the nightlife and proximity to employment is enough to attract some residents downtown, and that is why we are seeing a boom there. The current population of residents is not yet enough to attract significant retail action, and that is why we are stagnating in that department.

 

But the people who do move downtown in this round of developments do need groceries and clothes too, so once the apartments are built and those people are out walking around, retailers may become convinced.

[NCMike1981]

I'm just wondering if/when CVS will expand their hours beyond 6 pm Mon-Fri, closing at like 1 on Saturday and being closed Sundays. I think it would definately be an asset to Fayetteville St to have a drugstore open with typical drug store hours...

 

The fuzzy pic attached was from the 4th of July in downtown Raleigh...can you imagine how much business the CVS would have gotten had they been open? People running in for drinks and snacks and whatnot....but alas they were closed even as thousands gathered outside their door....

 

 

 

Edited October 3, 2013 by NCMike1981

[orulz]

Apparently there were 6400 rental applications for the 290 apartments at Crescent Cameron Village. This is by third hand information and seems absurd, but if it's true, how's that for demand?

 

But who can blame 'em, honestly, I've long thought that the intersection of Oberlin/Clark would be the best, perhaps the only, place in Raleigh were you could live comfortably and conveniently without a car.

[RALNATIVE]

Apparently there were 6400 rental applications for the 290 apartments at Crescent Cameron Village. This is by third hand information and seems absurd, but if it's true, how's that for demand?

 

But who can blame 'em, honestly, I've long thought that the intersection of Oberlin/Clark would be the best, perhaps the only, place in Raleigh were you could live comfortably and conveniently without a car.

 

That's exactly the point i'm trying to make. Demand increases dramatically when urban residential is close in proximity to basic retail, such as what exists at Cameron Village. It's a great marketing tool for residential development.

[OTSpazz]

I have often wondered if CVS even understands the business they are giving up by keeping those hours.  I would think they would do good business any night  of the week if they just stayed open to 9.   

[RALNATIVE]

As the saying goes, it's hard to teach an old dog new tricks...

[CityOfOaksNative]

Didn't want to start a new thread just for this one urban project.  It's not apartments either, but actually condo's. 

 

http://1300stmarys.com/

 

Developers will convert the office building at the northeast corner of Wade Ave. and St. Mary's St. into upscale units.  Prices will range from $169,900 - $349,000.  

[Jones_]

I actually believe the demand numbers...St Marys Square has a sign up saying they only have 10 units left. Wow! Plus I can see that the ones over at Hillsborough/Morgan are filling up fast. This really truly caught me by surprise but bodes very well for retail downtown if it holds up. 

[RALNATIVE]

I actually believe the demand numbers...St Marys Square has a sign up saying they only have 10 units left. Wow! Plus I can see that the ones over at Hillsborough/Morgan are filling up fast. This really truly caught me by surprise but bodes very well for retail downtown if it holds up. 

 

Let's keep our fingers crossed that retailers take notice sooner rather than later.

[Guest]

Raleigh's urban apartment boom seems to be difficult to follow, I've tried digesting this thread and I can't figure out what is where (as a Charlotte Native living in Brooklyn).

Any way someone could create a map much like Kermit did for Charlotte? Here is his for reference.

http://goo.gl/maps/QrPtb

These are most of the projects going on in Charlotte, save for 2 or three.

[ctl]

Cynics say that CVS, Walgreen, etc aren't really operators of drug stores. They're real estate developers. 

[Jones_]

Here is the website for 425 North Boylan's developer. (didn't look far to see if it had its own thread with this link)

[Jones_]

So I tried to do a map but given that this is my first try it has some shortcomings. First, I couldn't figure out how to let folks know what the color code was..anyway, red for under construction, green for completed and blue for proposed. Also stuck Aloft on there while I was working my way down Hillsborough Street. I know a couple of the site lines are off particularly for West's two sites. For viewers trying to get a grasp of downtown living, please note there are many condo projects downtown built in the last 15 years not identified here and many many older apartment buildings ranging from small quads to multi-building campuses. Anyway, hope this works....here is a link

[orulz]

Awesome, great work. A few minor corrections.

 

- You missed is the L building.

- The layout of the 2 West apartment buildings is wrong as you note. West I stretches from West St to Harrington St immediately north of West@North condos. The second building takes the eastern (Harrington) half of the block starting from just north of West I and stretching north to end right across the street from the T- intersection with Johnson Street.

- 401 Oberlin stretches twice as far west along Clark as you have depicted

- Link Apartments stretches twice as far north along West/Harrington as you have depicted

 

Looking at your map has made me realize the list on the first page of this thread is out of date. Maybe I will update that some day.

[Jones_]

I actually used your list to work form just for quick work. I left off Seaboard on purpose though because I doubt Peace University will actually build it though I am not sure if they purchased that tract. I made the corrections you noted and changed the privacy so you don't have to log into Google to view it. Here it is.