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Urban Apartment Boom (Raleigh)


orulz

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It's not the design of the Dawson. It more resembles the Hue, which to me is an eyesore.

 

It really saddens me that these developers continue to plan to build these lowrise apartment buildings on prime downtown land, especially when they are poorly designed. You would think that they would at least make these bldgs more aesthetically pleasing. I guess that the cost of beauty is more than the developers are willing to absorb.

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I was kind of hoping this project would die. I'd rather look at a surface lot than another Hue looking monstrosity. This is such a waste of prime land. It's a pure shame Coopers was torn down to build this.

 

I could not agree more. This is what happens when a growing city does not have a solid vision for how it wants to grow and leadership that is capable of implementing the vision. Developers run rampant and build whatever they can build that will make them the most money, despite the overall impact to the city, its residents, or future development.

 

I live next to the Hue and I can say for certain, since that building was erected, we've seen more problems than before. Theft in our parking lot has increased dramatically, there is much more loitering on the streets, and the noise levels from the Hue become unbearable at times.

 

The developer of that complex did us no favors.

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The previously mentioned reasons are partly why Raleigh has elected to hire an international design firm from Boston to come up with a downtown plan:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/triangle/print-edition/2014/01/10/downtown-plan-tops-citys-2014-agenda.html

 

The city obviously realizes that without a vision for downtown, and the right pieces in place, downtown will never live up to its potential.

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If you want a uniformly active downtown you have to spread out the uses. Stick all the office space in one spot and that spot will go quiet after 5. I for one, remain ok with the location of these apartments and think the finishes will be fine (not awesome) as well. Hue and 222 are uniquely terrible. Other stuff, while not leading edge by any means, tends towards what I think of as shiny, not edgy, safe and easy to build, but not embarrassing to live in for the 30 year old RTP worker. Were we a town of creativity (I know what the magazine articles say....I don't think they split out types of creative class), we would have more stuff like you see in Seattle, Denver etc. But people keep filling up these Eddie Bauer style apartments, so that is what we will continue to see. Also our developers as a whole do not push the envelope. Gammon, Sandreuter, and other starters back in the mid 90's could have wowed the crap out of everybody back in the day, but chose a safer route. Raleigh was a late starter to the neo-downtown living exercise, and i think that is part of the reason we have more conservative designs still. 

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If you want a uniformly active downtown you have to spread out the uses. Stick all the office space in one spot and that spot will go quiet after 5. I for one, remain ok with the location of these apartments and think the finishes will be fine (not awesome) as well. 

It's not the use of the building that bothers me. It's the design. They could use the most expensive materials in the world to finish the exterior of this building, but it won't make the design any more appealing. This onslaught of rehashed Eastern Bloc style housing in downtown isn't going to help the image of our area. 3 year olds create better looking buildings out of Lego blocks and Lincoln Logs. I just find it hard to believe that developers can't find a way to make a building attractive while still being cost effective. This reeks of copy and paste architecture. I'd almost be willing to bet that it was a pre-programmed design on whatever software they used to design the building.   

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It's not the use of the building that bothers me. It's the design. They could use the most expensive materials in the world to finish the exterior of this building, but it won't make the design any more appealing. This onslaught of rehashed Eastern Bloc style housing in downtown isn't going to help the image of our area. 3 year olds create better looking buildings out of Lego blocks and Lincoln Logs. I just find it hard to believe that developers can't find a way to make a building attractive while still being cost effective. This reeks of copy and paste architecture. I'd almost be willing to bet that it was a pre-programmed design on whatever software they used to design the building.   

My gut says that the downturn in condo sales is a lost window for better architecture. The profits are immediate on those so high sunk costs recovered right away. Apartment profits are over a longer horizon so there would be less willingness to increase costs if they know they can be rented with basic design so long as the location is desirable. Not saying it's the best thing for the City but I am thinking that at least indirectly plays into it. 

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I agree with that. I know Raleigh isn't a city that is highly regarded for urban architecture, but I really wish these developers would put at least a little thought into their designs. I was just happy to see new buildings when downtown development really started to pick up steam, but with each new lackluster proposal I become more and more cynical toward the lack of stand out architecture. Maybe I expect too much.

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Looking out my office window I spy a lot of work at the apartments planned on north Wilmington St. I had thought these were only the early planning stages, and had not seen any plans submitted for review but what I thought was just a lot of site prep going on now appears to have some reinforced concrete going in. Can't tell what exactly....could be a tower crane pad...but I didn't think these were going to be tall enough to warrant a tower crane....anyone have any insight?

 

RE: better designs, I also have hoped that with more competition for residents the buildings might get better. Everyone has a pool, clubhouse and workout room now...next step is better looking buildings maybe?

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The Ell building apartments are coming out of the ground now too...almost the same rate as Skyhouse. I keep wondering if we'll hit a ceiling and some of the proposed buildings end up not happening so I am glad these two downtown proper building are getting going. 

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  • 1 month later...

Somewhat of an update on the Edison Apartments I suppose... Clyde Cooper's is in the midst of renovating their new Wilmington St space in the parking deck - and have extended the space further into the deck.  Their last day of service at the current location is set for March 30 - and then switching service to the new location.  So I suppose demo of that block could begin soon after? 

 

In my opinion, the ground floor of the Edison Apartments really seems like one of the top 3 ideal locations for the Publix.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I still haven't been able to find any information about the "Elan Apartments" under construction at North Wilmington St & Polk St near Blount Street Commons and near Peace Street.

 

Seems strange that they could build this without submitting any site plans to the city for approval.

 

Does anybody have any insight?  I heard that it would be mainly marketed toward Peace students - almost like a dorm? - but I'm not sure of the validity of that.

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If you want a uniformly active downtown you have to spread out the uses. Stick all the office space in one spot and that spot will go quiet after 5. I for one, remain ok with the location of these apartments and think the finishes will be fine (not awesome) as well. Hue and 222 are uniquely terrible. Other stuff, while not leading edge by any means, tends towards what I think of as shiny, not edgy, safe and easy to build, but not embarrassing to live in for the 30 year old RTP worker. Were we a town of creativity (I know what the magazine articles say....I don't think they split out types of creative class), we would have more stuff like you see in Seattle, Denver etc. But people keep filling up these Eddie Bauer style apartments, so that is what we will continue to see. Also our developers as a whole do not push the envelope. Gammon, Sandreuter, and other starters back in the mid 90's could have wowed the crap out of everybody back in the day, but chose a safer route. Raleigh was a late starter to the neo-downtown living exercise, and i think that is part of the reason we have more conservative designs still. 

Not thrilled with the architecture for either Hue or 222 but I don't find them offensive, mainly because they're functional. The CC Mariott takes the gold medal for being offensive, ugly, and a totally worthless addition to the streetscape compared to the other recently built buildings. Obviously I could cite the Halifax Mall buildings, the jail, the AT&T box as worse, but those are much older, and they were built at a time when we had collectively forgotten how to plan urban spaces as a society. When stuff like that gets built now it's an atrocity.

 

When I think about all the residential projects, Park Devereux is irritating because it's single-use residential right in the CBD. It creates a wall where there could've been vital activity around Nash Square. Hue and 222 at least have ground floor retail. They actively contribute to the pedestrian environment.

Edited by Spatula
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Not thrilled with the architecture for either Hue or 222 but I don't find them offensive, mainly because they're functional. The CC Mariott takes the gold medal for being offensive, ugly, and a totally worthless addition to the streetscape compared to the other recently built buildings. Obviously I could cite the Halifax Mall buildings, the jail, the AT&T box as worse, but those are much older, and they were built at a time when we had collectively forgotten how to plan urban spaces as a society. When stuff like that gets built now it's an atrocity.

 

When I think about all the residential projects, Park Devereux is irritating because it's single-use residential right in the CBD. It creates a wall where there could've been vital activity around Nash Square. Hue and 222 at least have ground floor retail. They actively contribute to the pedestrian environment.

Park Deveraux has since sort of become a point of reference for lost opportunities. WIth the immediate success of Cafe De Los Muertos, Citrix etc, this area in particular would have benefitted tremendously from more ground floor retail space. Not only could Park Deveraux have made the first floor retail, but if it had put all its parking in/under the building, then the surface lot in the rear could have been filled with Hargett Street facing retail as well. Alas. 

 

After having worked on Halifax Mall for a couple of years now, I have sort of separated the level of hell there and it fits into the decades buildings were built. Archdale, Dobbs and LOB were all built in the 70's and lack clear inviting entrances that are easy to get to in any way other than through the underground parking deck. Revenue and Education were built in the early 90's and face both Wilmington and the Mall much better as well as having significant outdoor areas/porches for employees to congregate etc. If the Elan apartments (didn't realize that was their name until just now) turn out well, then north Wilmington won't be all bad except for the noticeable lack of retail. From my window I can see that an erector set parking deck is going up but nothing else indicating actual residences are imminent (footings, utilities etc.)

Edited by Jones_
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Obviously I could cite the Halifax Mall buildings, the jail, the AT&T box as worse, but those are much older, and they were built at a time when we had collectively forgotten how to plan urban spaces as a society. When stuff like that gets built now it's an atrocity.

 

 

The AT&T box is ridiculous. If ever there were a bldg that needed introduction to a wrecking ball, this would be it. The BOA bldg is also hideous. The design is totally bland. I keep hoping that BOA will one day realize that they need a more substantial tower in Raleigh.

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If we're talking about the AT&T facility on Hargett, that's the wireline switching center for downtown. There are 10,000-30,000 copper pairs that come into that building. It's not going anywhere. Yes it looks like a fortress, but in the 1970s and 1980s the Bell System companies went through a period of deliberately hardening their operational buildings like this one to improve security and survivability. 

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Oh yeah the AT&T box is not going anywhere, though I think it would be possible to renovate it to make it less ominous. I'm sure it's pie-in-the-sky thinking but I see no reason why windows couldn't be punched into it. Also the historic building on the north end that was incorporated into the switching center could be restored to its old form.

 

 

The AT&T box is ridiculous. If ever there were a bldg that needed introduction to a wrecking ball, this would be it. The BOA bldg is also hideous. The design is totally bland. I keep hoping that BOA will one day realize that they need a more substantial tower in Raleigh.

 

I suspect this will be an unpopular opinion but I actually like the BoA building. I do think they should step it up a bit with something taller, but I value that building, as it adds variety and color to the skyline. Though when I say I like it, that doesn't mean I don't love it, but it's okay.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I saw a post on Facebook from The Roast Grill that was mourning to loss of the Clyde Cooper's building.  It mentioned that the building would be razed in early April to make way for a "28 floor townhouse, state-of-the-art, living space for twentysomethings with a swimming pool on the top floor". 

 

I assume they are just getting their facts mixed up, right?

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