More exciting projects slated for SoBro

[smeagolsfree]

John (Blueraider) is a very passionate guy when it comes to Tony as are a few others on the board. A lot of people made money during the condo boom and many people didn’t see what was coming. It was not just here in Nashville it was all over the country. To Tony's credit he did refund all the money for deposits on the Signature tower on top of loosing 8 figures on the project. He came very close to breaking ground and if he had we may have had an unfinished tower downtown.

However, I suggest we get back to the topic in hand and deal with the issues today and the projects we are looking at now and not the ones that have been done in the past.

No tit for tats guys

[Sunseeker]

Yes, I heard Tony mention in his YouTube interview that he lost 8 figures and that nobody other than him suffered a loss associated with Signature Tower. What about the bank that the business journal reported lent him 11 million to buy the property and design his plans? When he borrowed 5 million a year or two ago and bought the property from the old sig entity that he once controlled, are we to believe that he wrote the bank a $ 6 million check to pay off the loan that was reported to have been in default? Considering the way banks have been writing off debt left and right it wouldnt surprise me if that was, in effect, some kind of a short sale that the bank approved. But if that was the case, I think it probably limits the extent to which Tony or others here can declare that only he lost money on that project.

[MTSUBlueraider86]

The point is not what Tony has lost in the past, but what he is doing now. We cannot speculate about any financial position he may be in, and I think we should not mention anything about it. Unless he says it, I would not take it as truth. Lets not discuss Tony's finances, cash position, debt, or anything like that. Again, this is a very public board read by many in the development arena, and we do not need to speculate about anything as personal as finances.

We can speculate on design, groundbreaking, tenants, height etc...

[nashbill]

I think that speculating on his financial position is as important as anything else on your list of things we can speculate on. Why would that be taboo? What he has done in the past has as much bearing as what he is/can do now. It would all weigh on his present ability to get something done now. I see you are a moderator and can guide the conversation as you see fit. I just don't understand why finances can't be included.

[Sunseeker]

I couldn't agree more, especially considering that his plans appear to include a future request of taxpayer $s to make the project feasible. If he is seeking public money then questions about his financial fitness and the performance of his past projects will be totally fare game and relevant to discussions about his new proposals. I don't think any of the discussion yesterday or today has been mean spirited or disrespectful. By that standard I think it complies with the UP terms of service, at least as I read and understand them.

[smeagolsfree]

Just keep it civil guys and don’t lose your tempers. We are all adults here and I don’t want a big head ache. BTW, we do get together for coffee at times and at least once a month for the forum meet. It always helps when folks can meet face to face and get to know each other. Sometimes writing something may infer something totally different than saying. I know the Signature tower thread really got out of hand at times.

Be respectful and civil is all I am asking.

Thanks guys

[Sunseeker]

Thanks, that is a good suggestion.

I did a little searching on the UP forum and found this from bnaflyer in May of 2006 on Signature: Really Feasible thread:

"The problem is that Nashville is not Las Vegas, Miami or Dubai. It's a great city (where I've lived for much of my life, by choice), but it can't support 65 story condos based on out of town owners. And markets built on such investor-owned properties are probably about to collapse, which will make finding financing in other markets for that kind of project very difficult. For Signature to be a success, there has to be an existing demand of people living in or around Nashville to buy a home in a 65 story tower. I'm not sure the market is there.

I also think we may be overstating Tony G's ability to put this deal together. Make no mistake about it, the Viridian is a Novare project. If you go to Atlanta there are a number of Novare buildings just like Virdian. They basically came to Nashville and joined forces with Tony (whom I assume controlled the land?), but the financial backing and the design came from Atlanta. Tony's only signficant high rise project has been the Cumberland, which is closer in scale to my house than to Signature Tower. I am skeptical that he has the ability to pull this off. (But I might be wrong--every developer who moves to the big leagues has a first big project, after all)"

Interesting and prescient comments from that UPer well before the demise of both the economy and the signature tower. Bnaflyer posed some very thoughtful and interesting questions at the outset of this thread. Considering how accurate some of his/her predictions were I thought his 5 yr old comments might be of interest to some of you.

[smeagolsfree]

The issue now is an apartment tower and an office building. I think that the apartment building has a good chance of getting built as the apartment market in Nashville and the rest of the company is doing very well. Nashville better than most.

There are at least 2500 units under construction or announced and everyone I talk to in the business say they will work and be filled very quickly.

I think the hotel may have a good shot as well because of the proximity to the new CC. The closer the hotel the quicker it will fill. The real losers will be the older hotels in the core, but it keeps the market fresh with new product.

[East Side Urbanite]

Friends,

Let me add some comments regarding Tony, views that I have formulated through my association with the man during my time as a member of the local media. Tony is not perfect and his projects have not been either. I once told him I'm not a big fan of The Cumberland and he was very respectful of my right to express my opinion. He did not act defensively or insecurely. In fact, he asked what I found unappealing about the building. Tony is no dummy. He knows Encore (in which I live) and Viridian are not the Chrysler Building. But they are very nice buildings overall that have proved Nashville can support a degree of high-rise downtown condo living. Yes, Novare played a major role in the development of Encore and Viridian but let's not overlook all the work Tony undertook. There is no doubt in my mind that Tony Giarratana is passionate about quality urban infill. He was a fairly significant contributor in the remaking of the old Bell Meade Theater building, which now boasts a Harris Teeter, and the next-door Marquee at Belle Meade (very cool contemporary building). His Belle Meade Court is fine for traditional construction, and Park 25 should be quite nice. His three proposed downtown towers would be stellar. Tony loves old-school skyscrapers, as he and I have had various chats about them.

I do agree that Tony's financial situation (or that of any developer) is, to some extent, fair game on this board. However, I feel smeagolsfree and blueraider86 make a good point in that we must be discrete and respectful of those who are sincerely trying to improve the city. Tony and his family live here and he wants to make Nashville more cosmopolitan and dynamic. For that, we should be appreciative. True, there are those who don't care for his buildings. And that's fine. But he deserves credit for his passion for urban infill.

WW