The SoBro | 32 stories 345 ft | 3rd & Demonbreun

[bigeasy]

By the end of the month. Great news! 

I feel like we heard the exact same thing the last few months. That being said  "I Believe That Tony Will Build"

Edited July 3, 2014 by bigeasy

[Paramount747]

I have been avoiding this topic for a couple of months, but I guess I will chime in as one who has posted here since 2005.

 

Since the late 1970's Nashville has had at least 50 or more proposals for such towers as Tony's. They consisted of office buildings, residential towers, observation towers,  and the like.  They ranged in size from 300 to 1100 feet. At one time Nashville was planned to be an experimental city whereas, the city would be built, or in this case, rebuilt from scratch to create a new southern modernist city. Although Atlanta, Dallas, Houston were well on their way as mega cities, Nashville was to replicate a planned European city based on the designs for Deaderick Street. You can see the plans on the marque' that fronts Deaderick and Third Avenues. In fact, if you look at the original plan for Deaderick Street back in the 1950's and early 1960's, one would see a Frank Lloyd Wright type of plan which consisted of 8 30 story residential towers all looking the same much like the European residential blocks of the 1960's. (They looked kind of Soviet if you ask me.)

 

In my 51 years I have seen more proposals than I can count, and my break away from the forum was to regain perspective. Most proposals like the Sobro, Sheet Music, and 505 CST never happen. (For some of the same reasons WES never happened.)

 

Nashville has become a city more about art, music, film, theater, cuisine, wine, craft beer, festivals, pride,  and so much more. Tall buildings are just an added benefit for people like us who care about such things.

 

Nashville is not a skyscraper city. I have come to realize having a bold skyline is not a goal of the city. The city has a goal of being a city full of culture found nowhere else. That is what attracts people here, and if you read the NBJ this week, you will see an article about the parking crisis which is hurting the growth of the city.

 

Tony would be best served to build multiple 20 story parking garages. In any case, This tower whether it happens or not has no real effect on my life. I would love to see it happen, but it's future is doubtful.

 

Tony already has an amazing portfolio of projects he has completed, and the city owes him a debt of gratitude. The question really is this: How come no one but Tony has a proposal for a tower in the urban core right now? Turnberry? Westin? I don't see anyone else breaking ground right now either.

 

So the question remains: When will another developer step forward with a serious proposal? Much ado has been said about Tony and Alex Palmer, but at least they have tried and for some reason, nothing has really happened since the Pinnacle and The Omni.

 

In regards to tall buildings, they are expensive to build and maintain, and only one income demographic can afford to live in them. Bank's are tighter now with money.

 

We are all going to have to live with the fact, this tower,  in my estimation, is not going to happen. I hope I am wrong, but I will continue to enjoy Nashville's cultural riches created to serve everyone, and no longer worry about buildings that only serve a few.

 

Nashville has become the "It City" and none of it has anything to do with how tall our buildings are. If I were to chose, I would like an iconic structure like the Gateway Arch in St. Louis, or the Space Needle in Seattle, but again those are great cities without the influence of tall buildings. When I think of Seattle, I think of Pearl Jam and Nirvana making iconic music, I don't think of residential towers.

 

Nashville is indeed Music City, not "Tall Building City."

Edited July 8, 2014 by Urban Architecture

[titanhog]

UA...I also wish we could build some kind of iconic structure (not a guitar)...ala the Arch...GG Bridge...Space Needle...etc.

[East Side Urbanite]

Very well written, UA. i agree with almost all your points.

 

WW

[NashRugger]

MDHA put out a RFQ to subcontractors today for the development.

[nashwatcher]

RFQ to subcontractors? Does this indicate a high likelihood we'll see work begin soon?

[CenterHill]

The giant parking lot on which the garage and 505 will rise was, of course, the former Cain Sloan building.     As I recall from watching the building come down, it left large hole a couple of stories deep and the building debris was used as infill and paved over.    Which is to say, there may be a pre-excavated hole to enable the garage and the 505 tower to include several levels of underground parking without the expense of new blasting.     One of you historians may have a better memory about that.  

Edited July 9, 2014 by CenterHill

[MidTenn1]

The giant parking lot on which the garage and 505 will rise was, of course, the former Cain Sloan building.     As I recall from watching the building come down, it left large hole a couple of stories deep and the building debris was used as infill and paved over.    Which is to say, there may be a pre-excavated hole to enable the garage and the 505 tower to include several levels of underground parking without the expense of new blasting.     One of you historians may have a better memory about that.  

 

Historian here. Never been called that before. Anyway....

 

Yes, the Cain Sloan Building was torn down and the basement area was filled in before being paved. I don't remember how deep it was, though.

[captainwjm]

Historian here. Never been called that before. Anyway....

 

Yes, the Cain Sloan Building was torn down and the basement area was filled in before being paved. I don't remember how deep it was, though.

I'm not a historian, just someone who remembers [mostly].    The hole wasn't that deep, there was just one basement level. 

[Paramount747]

UA...I also wish we could build some kind of iconic structure (not a guitar)...ala the Arch...GG Bridge...Space Needle...etc.

Back in 1975 It was to be called the "Nashville Tower" rising 750 feet over the area which would now be riverfront park. The tower was to front Broadway at 1st Avenue. At the time there was not much to look at, but instead we got the Hyatt Regency at 300 feet with the Pinnacle, then called the Polaris Room. Now, one cannot really see much from the height.

 

I would be open for that again. In fact, those observation decks, like the one on the L&C, are great revenue generators for the city.

 

I was recently up in the Chard in London, and the Arch in St. Louis, Empire State Building in NYC, the CN Tower in Toronto, The Sears Tower in Chicago, and the Hancock Tower in Chicago. The views were amazing, and tourists flocked those places to get a sprawling view of St. Louis, Manhattan, Toronto, Chicago,  and London.

 

A great location for Nashville would be on the PCS metals site. You build a residential and retail community around it.

 

I would love to see an observation tower at 800-1000 feet, but that would take a lot of cooperation between local government and private industry to pull it off.

Edited July 10, 2014 by Urban Architecture

[fieldmarshaldj]

^I'd be curious to see a rendering of that Riverfront "Nashville Tower." Probably horrid, given most of the designs of that era.

[UTgrad09]

^I'd be curious to see a rendering of that Riverfront "Nashville Tower." Probably horrid, given most of the designs of that era.

 

Yeah, given the time period....and the location...I think I'll file that under "close calls".

 

 

 

To be perfectly honest, I'm not a big fan of most 'observation towers' to begin with. It's one thing if a tall building has an observation deck (Sears Tower, Empire State Building, etc), but I'm not at all sad that Nashville doesn't have a specific observation tower. I just wish more top floors were open to the public, or had restaurants in them. I went to the top of Batman...giant waste of space. It could easily be a (couple of) restaurant(s) or a bar. Fantastic 360 degree views.

 

 

 

But back to the tower discussion. It seems to come in spurts. We don't usually get all that we want, and it's a frustrating wait at times, but I think we're going to see a lot of high rises in our future. The only problem will be that likely only a small portion of them will be "tall"....I would guess most will be in the 15-25 story range. I think the disappointment that most of us feel is that we can't seem to get that 40-50 story building out of the ground.... 

[volsfanwill]

id go to the observation level of the L&C tower if it was open

[MidTenn1]

Emporis lists the height in feet of the SoBro as 410.57 ft.

 

I have not seen that number anywhere else. Anyway to confirm?

[MLBrumby]

LOL... the height of SoBro is 0'0"

[satalac]

LOL... the height of SoBro is 0'0"

At least it's not into the negatives like WES....

[chris holman]

At least it's not into the negatives like WES....

Yeah below ground level.

[Paramount747]

Emporis lists the height in feet of the SoBro as 410.57 ft.

 

I have not seen that number anywhere else. Anyway to confirm?

Ted Kromer or Phil Meadows, (I think it was Ted)  told WW the building would be 60 feet below the highest occupied floor of the Pinnacle which makes it between 330 and 360 feet. The original design was 30 floors and 395 feet. This building will be 33 floors and 330-360 feet, about the size of the USBank/Regions Tower on 3rd and Commerce.

 

Emporis is wrong most of the time and will not correct their mistakes. They are based in Germany. I have had email arguments with them in the past. For instance they are insisting the Renaissance is 35 floors when it is 31. Showing them the elevator panel does not change their mind either. They claim Palmer Plaza was built in 1993 when I told them I was in the building in 1986 and they wont change it. Don't waste your time with Emporis.

Edited July 11, 2014 by Urban Architecture

[mirydi]

Ted Kromer or Phil Meadows, (I think it was Ted)  told WW the building would be 60 feet below the highest occupied floor of the Pinnacle which makes it between 330 and 360 feet. The original design was 30 floors and 395 feet. This building will be 33 floors and 330-360 feet, about the size of the USBank/Regions Tower on 3rd and Commerce.

 

 

At 33 stories, there's no way the SoBro will be 330'. With the lobby and the mechanical room on top, it will be close to 400'. The 395' number we have been seeing for so long is there for a reason. It doesn't really matter anyway's cause it will never be built, right?

 

 

 

 

[arkitekte]

At 33 stories, there's no way the SoBro will be 330'. With the lobby and the mechanical room on top, it will be close to 400'. The 395' number we have been seeing for so long is there for a reason. It doesn't really matter anyway's cause it will never be built, right?

 

That lobby doesn't have to be more than one floor at street level, especially for a residential development. Anything over 10'-12-14' is wasted space. There could easily be a level of amenities on the bottom floor adjacent to a smaller lobby that's only a 10' floor.

 

Most mechanical floors aren't counted on the floor diagrams either and don't particularly need to be a full 9" or 10" floor. I've been on mechanical floors taking as been measurements that were only 5' tall.

Edited July 11, 2014 by arkitekte

[mirydi]

That lobby doesn't have to be more than one floor at street level, especially for a residential development. Anything over 10'-12-14' is wasted space. There could easily be a level of amenities on the bottom floor adjacent to a smaller lobby that's only a 10' floor.

 

Most mechanical floors aren't counted on the floor diagrams either and don't particularly need to be a full 9" or 10" floor. I've been on mechanical floors taking as been measurements that were only 5' tall.

 

I'm sure what your saying is true in some cases, but just going off the renderings, the lobby (at least to me anyway's) looks a lot more than 10' tall. We also don't exactly know how tall the ceilings will be either. I would assume since this is supposed to be a "luxury" apartment tower, your going to have at least 10' ceilings in the regular apartments, and could be as high as 11' or 12'. If there's going to be penthouses, those would more than likely be taller. To be honest, we still don't know which tower is being built yet. The only thing I'm fairly certain about is that if this tower is going to be 33 stories, we can pretty much guarantee that it will be taller then 330'.

 

 

Edited July 11, 2014 by mirydi

[smeagolsfree]

If I remember right, it will not crack 400'. I think I remember Tony saying it was going to be shorter than the first rendering which was around 390'.

[arkitekte]

I'm sure what your saying is true in some cases, but just going off the renderings, the lobby (at least to me anyway's) looks a lot more than 10' tall. We also don't exactly know how tall the ceilings will be either. I would assume since this is supposed to be a "luxury" apartment tower, your going to have at least 10' ceilings in the regular apartments, and could be as high as 11' or 12'. If there's going to be penthouses, those would more than likely be taller. To be honest, we still don't know which tower is being built yet. The only thing I'm fairly certain about is that if this tower is going to be 33 stories, we can pretty much guarantee that it will be taller then 330'.

 A lot of penthouses are double floors, not necessarily floors with higher ceilings. Design wise, it's a pain to have 10 or 12 floors sitting at 9' or 10' and then jump to have other floors at 12' or so. That would throw off your elevation grids as well as break the flow of the facade's spacing. Most residential developments have 9' or 10' ceilings. 

[Paramount747]

At 33 stories, there's no way the SoBro will be 330'. With the lobby and the mechanical room on top, it will be close to 400'. The 395' number we have been seeing for so long is there for a reason. It doesn't really matter anyway's cause it will never be built, right?

I was in a 30 story building once that was 280 feet. It had 8 foot ceilings,  and built in the 1970's.  So yes, a 33 story tower can be 330-360 feet.  The Sheraton is 28 floors and 299 feet.

[mirydi]

^It's not the 70's anymore.