Concept: Downtown Casino

[JimSawhill]

I know about the baseball stadium. I just think a casino is not going to help Hartford. I would like to see a new arena to replace the XL center. I would like to see a replica of the 'Onrust'.

Yes, Connecticut is in trouble. What happened to the two strong party...the Democratic Party of Ella Grasso and Tom Monihan and the Republican Party of Thomas Meskill. Now it is run by the left wing Dems.

[beerbeer]

It doesn't look like we'll get a new arena. The plan is to upgrade the XL.  The plans are actually very good including an upper deck concourse. A new arena would be great but it won't happen in this environment especially with the cost savings an upgrade would provide. 

 

A water feature on the Connecticut river would be great but the boat cruise companies that have tried to sustain one all succumbed to market forces.  I would love to see the Science Museum add a water feature like the Onrust or perhaps an Ohio Class submarine on the river.

 

 

Here's the thing about the casino.  If it is to compete with the MGM in downtown Springfield, a box at Bradley Airport won't do it.  Put it at the corner of I-84 and I-91 and it takes away the reason to drive to Springfield. This casino isn't meant to save Hartford.  The city doesn't need saving (except from itself). It is purely a defensive measure to keep dollars from leaving the state.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

I think right here would be the optimum spot:

 

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.7627325,-72.6694825,20z

[The Voice of Reason]

Theo,   As I understand it, that spot is intended to be left available for future expansion of the convention center.

 

If the Casino were designed with this expansion included, I am all for it... In fact the best way to make it work wouold be to do the Mariott Expansion to 700 rooms, the convention center expansion, and the Casino all at once. 

 

I would then allow the casino to build an additional hotel if they wanted to as part of their casino.  But only AFTER expanding the CCC hotel and CCC.

 

this plan I think would do several things that increase the attractiveness of the front street district.

This would also make the area more attractive for conventions, increase hotel night stays and go a LONG way to staving off Mass competition.

 

to make it work the casino would need easy access to the XL center, baseball diamond, train station and airport. 

there would need to be some street fronted retail space for the casino required also

[beerbeer]

If it was my money.

 

I would buy the Raddison Hotel, remodel it and attach a casino. Instant urban resort.

[The Voice of Reason]

That works too

 

but that hotel is not big enough for a casino.  Apparently they make alot of money off their hotels as evidenced by Mohigan building a new 1200 room hotel

 

If you want to go low cost, you could certainly build a casino attached to the raddison for say 20 mill and be in business within a year.  Casinos though tend to go big and look to attract visitors.  If I were competing with the billion dollar Springfield project Im not sure I would do the Raddison.

 

I think, really the convention center version works well due to the synergies factor.

 

Conventions like Casinos

Conventions need big hotels

Conventions like fun places

Hartford is more fun with a Casino

Hartford would be attractive to more conventions

big Conventions like big convention centers

Expanded Convention center attracts more room nights

Casinos like Big hotels

 

a Big hotel would be quite busy with a casino and an expanded Convention center.

nearby entertainment venues would do well also... especially Infiniti Hall and maybe even the movies

it would also haver to help the XL center

[beerbeer]

That works too

 

but that hotel is not big enough for a casino.  Apparently they make alot of money off their hotels as evidenced by Mohigan building a new 1200 room hotel

 

If you want to go low cost, you could certainly build a casino attached to the raddison for say 20 mill and be in business within a year.  Casinos though tend to go big and look to attract visitors.  If I were competing with the billion dollar Springfield project Im not sure I would do the Raddison.

 

I think, really the convention center version works well due to the synergies factor.

 

Conventions like Casinos

Conventions need big hotels

Conventions like fun places

Hartford is more fun with a Casino

Hartford would be attractive to more conventions

big Conventions like big convention centers

Expanded Convention center attracts more room nights

Casinos like Big hotels

 

a Big hotel would be quite busy with a casino and an expanded Convention center.

nearby entertainment venues would do well also... especially Infiniti Hall and maybe even the movies

it would also haver to help the XL center

 

 

Here's the thing. The best casino for Hartford would not have a hotel attached. There are many such casinos around the country. That would have the biggest multiplier effect for city business. However,  a small or medium sized hotel would help it better compete with MGM Springfield. And that the real goal, no? With a big hotel, the casino becomes an island with a much smaller multiplier effect. With the choices being, no hotel, medium hotel or large hotel, Mama Bear works hardest for the city.

 

Virtually everything you wrote about the convention/casino mix (minus the big hotel) works if the Raddison is converted. It is walking distance (three blocks or five minutes) from the Connecticut Convention Center. It becomes part of downtown and does not overwhelm the the city.

[The Voice of Reason]

I think that the casino would help all local hotels.

 

sure you could say it would lack a multiplier, but I could just as easily argue that it would provide a larger multiplier.

 

if more conventions come and larger conventions come, hotel room demand rises.  plain and simple

also...

(I think the numbers would be much smaller here) If adding a casino adds say 500,000 room nights of demand, using the example of Mohigan suns recent article... and a 1200 room hotel allows them to re-capture most of those nights..  that leaves plenty of room to help the near by hotels.

 

1200 rooms could concievably serve 438000 room nights a year.    But there are obviously going to be nights with vacancies on like tuesdays in the winter or something like that...  So even if the casino created 300,000 room nights worth of demand, the hotel will never accomodate all those demanded nights.

there are also going to be nights that demand is more than double the 1200 rooms.  that casino will through its programming attract people that will find rooms in nearby hotels.. people will nseek deals, and cheaper hotels.

 

People will also stay at the Hilton due to Hilton Honors status or points.

 

I think a hotel is necessary for whatever tribe signs up and it will help to attract bigger conferences...

One thing that actually currently hurts the city is the lack of a hotel that holds more than 500.  There is a formula that conference organizes use to determine where to go... one is conference floor space, another is regional hotel room availability..   and of course the fun or relevence factor... but one... is the conference hotel size.  500 is one of the key thresholds.  1000 is the magic number.  

 

we do not have a 500+ room hotel, we lose out on events no matter how much they like Hartford... they dont even look at us.

 

so, I say.... Have the casino come in and expand the convention center, the CC Mariott and build their own hotel as large as they want.

[beerbeer]

Considering this discussion is purely hypothetical, try this.

 

The Raddison has 350 rooms.  The MGM Springfield will have 250-400 rooms and suites. Size wise, there are similar. Except it will cost much, much less to convert than to build.

 

With a current occupancy rate of 60% plus or minus.  500 new hotel rooms is not supported even with some larger conventions.  Using the Raddison adds no new hotel rooms.

 

The hotel that needs more rooms is the Marriott.  If the casino causes an uptick in convention business, if Hartford becomes competitive for larger conventions, the Marriott has plans for a second tower already to go. If they add another 250 rooms, that would easily be absorbed without over building the market.

 

As I said, this is all theoretical, you might be right. There are better minds than mine, who know the market better. However, IMHO, a brand new 500 room hotel seems excessive.

[The Voice of Reason]

Good analysis BB

being theoretical I really dont know the room demand in a future state obviously.  and I didnt realize springfield had so few rooms.

 

A brand new 500 room hotel would be expensive no doubt.  My comment above may not have been clear but I was angling for the expanded mariott first and foremost

I was thinking the casino would be allowed to build rooms only after expanding the CCC Mariott. 

 

I suppose my thought is just that project should be more than just a box with slots and tables in it... the one proposed in East hartford seems super lame

 

If this casino project could also improve our convention center by expanding it.  improve our convention center hotel by expanding it.. and add customers to front street and the other near by venues.. Then I am really supportive of someone building a nice 150 million development

 

if its a souless box just taking slot revenues... im not really keen

[JimSawhill]

Beerbeer: An Ohio class sub and the 'Onrust' both would be nice on the Connecticut River. Another would be a floating restaurant. In Tampa, we have a riverwalk from Garrison Channel (where the cruise ships are), past the Amilie Arena (Lightning home) to the mouth of the Hillsborough River up past the Stars Center to the Waterworks Park (where the city of Tampa had their first water source). I think Hartford should have a river walk from the old power plant up to Riverside Park. It would be a nice walk in the spring, summer and fall.

Comments?

[The Voice of Reason]

this old topic is sooo worth bringing back

[JimSawhill]

VOR: I would love to see a casino I'm Hartford, but the local tourism board should be promoting the area. We have some nice attractions in Hartford and we should promote them. If the commuter rail happens and high speed rail, let's see one casino in Hartford and then get a pro small government governor elected.

We need to get businesses to expand in CT.

[HartfordTycoon]

I'm all for a casino in Downtown Hartford.  I think that is by far the best location for it in the Hartford region and that something at a comparable scale to what is being done in Springfield is what we really need to be looking at here.  I think a good location would be the parking lots on Allyn St.. That would put it near the XL, the traditional club district, and Union station.

[The Voice of Reason]

I really think that if the state opens its eyes and the city can line up... Downtown is the only logical answer

 

the best thing too is that it can be linked to the existing transit and more importantly spur future transit improvements.

 

If a visitor could fly into BDL and hop a train to hit convention hotel/casino... that would be great

 

Me... this is how I see it happening..

we build some kind of rail.  im thinking a ysystem like they have in Nice France.  its above ground and goes doen a center lane of the roads... like a super modern and super fast trollu with stations that more closely resemble bus stops.  they call it a TRAM

link to save you googling it

http://www.railway-technology.com/projects/nice-trams/nice-trams3.html

 

you can see that when the train is not there cars drive right over the same space.  this is simular to the Amsterdam tram but way more modern.  and by my experience.. fast

 

My tram would run of course from West Hartford Center down Farmington Ave to downtown, over the Charter oakm along Connecticut ave before heading over to Pratt and the Rentschler field area.  It would also serve the Meadows right down colombus Ave till it gets Hartford Hospital. 

 

It should also  go to BDL up the griffith line

 

It should be added that the innitial urban section of the nice line was 8.7 KM long and opened in 2007 it cost 560 Million Euro

The phase 2 they are building is 11.3 KM long and will cost 770 M Euro and connects the port to the airport with 3.7 KM of that track underground

 

 

 

[The Voice of Reason]

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/article/20150508/NEWS01/150509937

 

a stufy about a casino in greater Hartford and how it pretty much is the only thing that makes sense.... now... lets located it in Hartford and finally make a smart move

[HartfordTycoon]

I couldn't agree more about downtown being the ideal location for a Greater Hartford Casino in order to maximize potential ancillary development and activity.  The more I think about the East Hartford location, the more I think it's not a terrible idea though. I fully support the efforts to get Rentschler Field and Silver Lane developed and think this certainly would help with those efforts. I think it would certainly compliment the stadium and that business would be pretty brisk on event dates.

[beerbeer]

I think putting another business on top of a failed business like Silver Lane isn't the way to go.

[JimSawhill]

A casino at the old Showcase Cinemas? Hell no, it should be in downtown, not in East Hartford.

The old Showcase Cinemas should be stores...or cinemas.

Really, what Connecticut need is new leadership, but so does East Hartford.

Connecticut needs a pro Right to Work leader. Yes, I said it...i think you'll see more states going against the union.

[The Voice of Reason]

according to the paper, the city is actually considering this

 

[The Voice of Reason]

From what the news reports, the city did get in before the deadline and are 1 of 4 towns in the running.   this is really so that the new administration can consider it and have a voice in the process.

What are your thoughts on where in Hartford tyhis should be now that its b\getting a little more "real"

I think there can pretty much be only like 3 possible locations based on my #1 rule

that ruse is that it needs to integrate with the city, therefore making the old police HQ land near the closed dump a no no (thats an island all by itself)

 

1: The convention center expantion land, but this will also require an expansion of the CCC and likely the Mariott

2: Tied to the new XL center:  this would likely need to be on the surface lot on the corner of church and Allyn, and this would require the rebuilding and expansion of the church street garage to serve bothg the XL center and the casino.   The hilton will benefit greatly from this deal

3: Tied to the Goat pen (DD park)  it may need to be down on Market for traffic reasons and such, but it would need to integrate with the dono development so that it forces pedestrians onto the street.

 

1 and 2 both enhance existing entertainment districts.

3, less so

I much prefer 1 and 2

if option 3 happens, for my money, center plan would need to be required to increase its project density alot!  the area really needs to have loads of residences and maybe even hoptel rooms to help make the casino just part of the area, and not overwhelm it.  Also they would need to redesign Trumbull street to have much more retail and street activity to connect the uses.   

 

 

 

[Luca Brasi]

I'm beginning to wonder if Centerplan has held off on the start of phase two (they said its because they want to focus on completing the ballpark) because they are somehow working on incorporating the casino development into their plan.

[The Voice of Reason]

that wouldnt be the worst thing.  I prefer to concentrate our entertainment services.