Nashville Bits and Pieces

[uberkarnie]

The latest proposal for Bellevue Mall... but this one has a legit development partner...  http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/real-estate/2014/11/developer-attempts-to-bring-bellevue-center-back.html

I understand something needs to be done here. I also recognize that Bellevue is a hell of a lot more appropriate place for this type of development than Mt. Juliet; but am I the only one who finds Providence absolutely repulsive? I have a huge bias against massive development in outlying areas for myriad reasons, but what Crosland did out there doesn't seem to have been well thought out at all. I loathe suburban sprawl, but am drawn out there for work once or twice a week and it is hell. It makes Cool Springs seem well reasoned.

[BnaBreaker]

I understand something needs to be done here. I also recognize that Bellevue is a hell of a lot more appropriate place for this type of development than Mt. Juliet; but am I the only one who finds Providence absolutely repulsive? I have a huge bias against massive development in outlying areas for myriad reasons, but what Crosland did out there doesn't seem to have been well thought out at all. I loathe suburban sprawl, but am drawn out there for work once or twice a week and it is hell. It makes Cool Springs seem well reasoned.

 

I couldn't agree more about Providence and developments like it.  For some reason, even though aesthetically it looks nicer, that kind of stuff repulses me even more than the regular old unabashed sprawl you see in places like Smyrna.  At least a warehouse store surrounded by a sea of parking is what it is, love it or leave it, it isn't trying to fool anyone.  Developments like Providence are more or less like Main St. Disney without the surrounding amusement park.  It's sprawl masquerading as an idyllic walkable village.  It's a wolf in sheep's clothing.  It literally serves no other purpose beyond what traditional sprawl does aside from making suburbanites feel hip and trendy by shopping in 'the city,' without all that pesky reality added in. 

Edited November 18, 2014 by BnaBreaker

[volsfanwill]

I used to live there, I will say it wasnt done well. the Main street part is really a very small portion of it.  teh vast majority of the development is just a bunch of strip malls that are in a square area instead of linear along a single road. 

[Vrtigo]

And I'm sure people get in their cars to drive to the next store even when they are both within 100' of each other.

[Paramount747]

The appropriate response is "go back to your shanties."

When I was in the Buffalo airport a few years ago, we were sitting in the airport bar. We had just spent a week in Toronto, and flew out of Buffalo. There was a story on the sports news about the Tennessee Titans, and some Buffalonian in the bar referred to them as the Tennessee Beavers saying we were just a bunch of dumb rednecks. Had he only knew  we were building one tower after another in downtown, and they had not had a building erected since the 1960's!

[volsfanwill]

And I'm sure people get in their cars to drive to the next store even when they are both within 100' of each other.

yes, they did

[MLBrumby]

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I just looked at the 2013 estimates for Nashville and Memphis populations... and I just saw something stunning (to me anyway)....

 

Nashville.... 658,602

Memphis.... 653,450

 

OMG!!! Dare I say it?  Huge condition is the reliability of such numbers.  Hmmmmm, given the estimated growth each year (Nashville's 11,000) and Memphis' (2400)... I'd say what the estimates reflect (a/o 2013) is definitely inevitable soon.

[UTgrad09]

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I just looked at the 2013 estimates for Nashville and Memphis populations... and I just saw something stunning (to me anyway)....

 

Nashville.... 658,602

Memphis.... 653,450

 

OMG!!! Dare I say it?  Huge condition is the reliability of such numbers.  Hmmmmm, given the estimated growth each year (Nashville's 11,000) and Memphis' (2400)... I'd say what the estimates reflect (a/o 2013) is definitely inevitable soon.

 

That's Davidson County's number, though. 

 

Nashville's number is 634,464 for 2013.

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/47/4752006.html

 

Still, given the estimated growth rates, sometime between 2015-2017, Nashville should pass Memphis for what amounts to rather meaningless bragging rights.

[MLBrumby]

Never am sure how to break down the pop of "Metro".... knew someone here would clarify.

[volsfanwill]

That's Davidson County's number, though. 

 

Nashville's number is 634,464 for 2013.

 

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/47/4752006.html

 

Still, given the estimated growth rates, sometime between 2015-2017, Nashville should pass Memphis for what amounts to rather meaningless bragging rights.

true, they are really meaningless, except to people in Memphis, this is the one stat they love to use against us for just about everything.  it is literally their last leg to stand on.

[Hey_Hey]

Shelby County will remain the largest county in Tennessee for the foreseeable future. The earliest that Davidson would overtake Shelby would be somewhere around 30-40 years.

Still, nashville being the biggest city in Tennessee should help politically. It will also remove the confusion that comes with having the largest metro area and second largest city population.

Edited November 19, 2014 by Hey_Hey

[dReAmWiELdEr]

That's Davidson County's number, though.

Nashville's number is 634,464 for 2013.

http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/states/47/4752006.html

Still, given the estimated growth rates, sometime between 2015-2017, Nashville should pass Memphis for what amounts to rather meaningless bragging rights.

...As I understand it, we really should be basing the statistical analysis on Davidson County, rather than "Nashville proper." Technically, Davidson County and Nashville city limits are the same, with few exceptions. Nashville has a consolidated city/county government which includes six smaller municipalities in a two-tier system... including other incorporated cities within the consolidated city–county (such as Belle Meade and Berry Hill). All that being said however, I believe when it comes to all or at least most census reports, they base it on the combined area (Davidson County.)

[Nashville Cliff]

More telling is that our estimated MSA population in 2013 was 1.76 million and grew 87k since 2010 while Memphis's was 1.34 million, having grown 17k over the same period.

 

http://factfinder2.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?src=bkmk

...As I understand it, we really should be basing the statistical analysis on Davidson County, rather than "Nashville proper." Technically, Davidson County and Nashville city limits are the same, with few exceptions. Nashville has a consolidated city/county government which includes six smaller municipalities in a two-tier system... including other incorporated cities within the consolidated city–county (such as Belle Meade and Berry Hill). All that being said however, I believe when it comes to all or at least most census reports, they base it on the combined area (Davidson County.)

 

If you want to compare counties, Shelby still pummels Davidson, 939K to 658K.

[UTgrad09]

...As I understand it, we really should be basing the statistical analysis on Davidson County, rather than "Nashville proper." Technically, Davidson County and Nashville city limits are the same, with few exceptions. Nashville has a consolidated city/county government which includes six smaller municipalities in a two-tier system... including other incorporated cities within the consolidated city–county (such as Belle Meade and Berry Hill). All that being said however, I believe when it comes to all or at least most census reports, they base it on the combined area (Davidson County.)

 

Those smaller municipalities are actually incorporated, though. 

 

For the purpose of counting population, the Census Bureau defines "Nashville" as everything BUT those municipalities, which is why they refer to it as the "balance" of the population of Davidson County.

 

The State of Tennessee, on the other hand, uses Nashville's Urban Service District as their measure for Nashville (which is only about 430,000, but also only 189 square miles, and doesn't include Madison, Hermitage, parts of Antioch, and Bellevue).

 

 

While you are correct that Nashville/Davidson County are technically one in the same, it is a different style of government than what most places have...so if you did county all of Davidson County as Nashville, you would effectively be double-counting when you list the populations of Belle Meade, Berry Hill, Forest Hills, Goodlettsville (part of), Oak Hill, and Ridge Top (part of).

[UTgrad09]

If you want to compare counties, Shelby still pummels Davidson, 939K to 658K.

 

Shelby County is also 763 square miles, while Davidson is 504 (and land area is a common target when mentioning Nashville vs. Memphis in population). That's 50% larger. Both counties include large swaths of undeveloped land.

 

If you go by population density:

 

Shelby - 1,231 people per square mile

Davidson - 1,307 people per square mile

[Nashville Cliff]

The State of Tennessee, on the other hand, uses Nashville's Urban Service District as their measure for Nashville (which is only about 430,000, but also only 189 square miles, and doesn't include Madison, Hermitage, parts of Antioch, and Bellevue).

 

 

Really?  For what programs or purposes?  I've never run across the state using the USD as the Nashville count in my many years at the state.  Could just be in some policy area I don't work with.

[UTgrad09]

Really?  For what programs or purposes?  I've never run across the state using the USD as the Nashville count in my many years at the state.  Could just be in some policy area I don't work with.

 

Check the Tennessee Blue Book. For official population, it uses the USD figure, and has for a long time.

[Nashville Cliff]

Check the Tennessee Blue Book. For official population, it uses the USD figure, and has for a long time.

 

That is odd. I'm not aware of any programs, funding or otherwise, that use that figure.  Must have been someone from Memphis who chose to use that figure. ; )

[UTgrad09]

That is odd. I'm not aware of any programs, funding or otherwise, that use that figure.  Must have been someone from Memphis who chose to use that figure. ; )

I always found that curious. It may be something that goes back to the 60s.

Perhaps by the official state definition, only the USD is providing city services.

[Nashville Cliff]

I always found that curious. It may be something that goes back to the 60s.

Perhaps by the official state definition, only the USD is providing city services.

 

Perhaps, but our GSD provides as many or more "city" services as many other cities.

[UTgrad09]

Perhaps, but our GSD provides as many or more "city" services as many other cities.

 

I agree. And to your point, I haven't seen any other state publication use that figure.

 

But here it is:

 

http://www.tn.gov/sos/bluebook/13-14/7_Statistics.pdf

 

(page 77 on the PDF)

[SoundScan]

Additional city populations:

 

Miami: 417,650

Washington D.C.: 632,323

Seattle: 634,535

Boston: 636,479

Atlanta: 443,775

 

Would the people of Memphis also argue that they are larger than these cities as well...?

 

Ha.

[titanhog]

Additional city populations:

 

Miami: 417,650

Washington D.C.: 632,323

Seattle: 634,535

Boston: 636,479

Atlanta: 443,775

 

Would the people of Memphis also argue that they are larger than these cities as well...?

 

Ha.

If it would make them feel better about themselves...then yes...yes they would.

[ariesjow]

true, they are really meaningless, except to people in Memphis, this is the one stat they love to use against us for just about everything.  it is literally their last leg to stand on.

 

They'll still complain that Nashville is "contrived" and trying to "claim" Elvis because a couple of honky tonks and gift shops that actual Nashvillians never bother to enter decided to put Elvis statues in front of their businesses. It's still a rivalry so I guess there will always be some sort of digs being launched, but I think it's clear that Nashville will remain Tennessee's premier city for the foreseeable future without a major event(s) to change the cities' current trajectories.

 

That said, I do think Memphis will be hella cool if and when it starts to get even half the sort of the investment we're experiencing right now. They are working with great bones and a nice street grid for a Southern city in addition to having an equally strong cultural identity. Adding more new buildings to their current infrastructure, figuring out viable plans to restore crumbling older ones like Sterick and elevating their city branding game would go a long way. They just need to figure out how to play up their positives to slowly erode away the negative perceptions and the pieces will slowly fall into place. I tend to think of Birmingham as having some similar "baggage" to Memphis yet I am impressed with some of the projects Birmingham has implemented and/or proposed recently. I can think of no good reason why Memphis cannot follow suit.

[titanhog]

As far as Elvis...he actually has quite a history in Nashville, including recording more than 200 songs in RCA Studio B...but I don't really see Nashville hyping him that much.