Nashville Bits and Pieces

[Nathan_in_DC]

So this obviously isn't news about anything, but just an observation... I don't get on as much as I used to, what with work keeping me busy, being away traveling, and being out on big gray float-ey things in the ocean a lot. I'm heading home at the end of the month for Thanksgiving and absolutely cannot wait to see all that I have missed. Just trying to catch up on the forum is almost impossible if I miss a couple of weeks. It's just overwhelming sometimes, and I can't wait to actually get on the ground and see it myself. There's been some disappointments, of course, such as with the apparent bad news about the MLS stadium, but so much growth. I hope to maybe try to do a walkaround at some point when I'm home, if I do I'll post and try to organize a little mini-meet.

[smeagolsfree]

Sorry guys all of this conversation is going to be hidden. Not going to encourage hate,stupidity and ignorance.

[Baronakim]

To all the UP Nashville gang, I would like to take a while to congratulate you  on all the great viewpoints y'all shared on this forum since I joined , both kudos and gripes.  I think I can say that I am probably one the longer time native Nashvillians actively posting.  For new Nashvillians, I want to share my point of view just how far this city has come in the last 7 or so decades.  Back in the early 50s, Nashville was nasty.  Everything was heated by coal so the smog was ever present.  None of the TVA dams had been built and any consumer shopping was downtown ...mostly on Church Street.  Most everything was old and worn out; there were many very nice structures in spots, but most of them were long overdue for renewal or preservation.  A bright spot was the new Victory Memorial bridge over the Cumberland in 1957.  

If there was one thing central to the 60s, it was vast demolition.  Most of it was painful but necessary.  The complete demolition of 6 central blocks from the courthouse to War Memorial square....a complete bulldozing to create James Robinson Parkway... urban neighborhoods torn up for the new federal interstate highway loop...the loss of significant historic landmarks like the Maxwell House hotel, and Loews Theater by fires, the historic buildings on the courthouse square (demolished), the Fairgrounds (burned 1965) and baseball games ceased at Sulphur Dell (1967).  On the bright side, the L&C tower (1957) and the Nashville Auditorium (1964) were heralds of  renewal.  At the time the L&C tower was the tallest commercial  building in the US outside of Manhattan and Chicago...and it was no glass box either.  The architect, Edwin A. Keeble was even a local resident of the city.  A huge new Cain-Sloan department store was built at 5th & Church which held a promise of continued vitality of the shopping venues downtown (now Tony G's tower) and L&C Insurance Co. built an even taller new headquarters, opening in 1970 (now Snodgrass State office tower), the architects were SOM.  But for all of the promise of renewal, huge areas of the core were still covered in old warehouses and industrial buildings.  At least it wasn't as bad as Birmingham at the time.   Knoxville and Chattanooga were no prizes then either.    Few other mid height buildings were built, mainly  the Third National Bank building (20 stories in 1968).

The 70s...well, were both  bad and good.  The new Metropolitan government was the big thing...lots more demolition... creating lots of surface parking lots...the rise of suburban malls which was a death knell for downtown shopping.   Sulphur Dell was finally demolished by then (1969).  Vanderbilt University entered a new era of expansion on 501 acres  acquired by eminent domain, tearing down many square blocks of residences.   The 6 square blocks of downtown finally were rebuilt... TPAC....the Doubletree and others on Deadrick, but we lost the Andrew Jackson Hotel to build TPAC.   Downtown shopping and theaters continued to decline, despite Metro's efforts to update Church Street.  Printer's Alley and the Arcade were seriously dilapidated  and live music at the Ryman ended (1974).   Nashville built its Thermal Transfer Plant in 1972 by Shelby Street Bridge.  This was a stinky function to put in the core, but it modernized the technology of heating and cooling downtown buildings. On the bright side,  many Second Avenue vacant buildings were filled with restaurants and shops in that decade and restoration began on the old buildings.

We lost another grand old hotel, the Sam Davis in 1984 for the construction of the new convention center and Renaissance Hotel which  anchored what was to become the start of the renewal of Lower Broadway.   But I distinctly remember that Demonbreum Street  in the 80s from Music Row to the river was like a war zone.  The Gulch was full of rotting warehouses;  the railroad  service to the city ended and Union Station was a sad shadow of its past, and from 9th to the bridge was a no-man's land of broken glass from the crowds of homeless there.  It was an area not at all safe to go.  The honky-tonks on Lower Broad and government was mostly where any activities were downtown.   Other areas were likewise in horrible shape.  The east bank of the river was an industrial slum.   From the railroad bridge to the new interstate crossing under 8th was another blighted area...the slaughterhouse (Neuhoff),...one story warehouses and vacant lots from Jo Johnson  to Jefferson  Street.   In the 80s , Nashville was  becoming  more diversified with financial, medical and music growth.  Importantly, a new airport terminal was built which stimulated the city's growth vastly and a much needed I-440 loop was built (though much fought over in acquiring R.O.W.).

I think that by the  90s  the boom that Nashville has experienced was well established.  Both the Predators  and the Titans arrived in the late 90s with the Bridgestone Arena and the Nissan Stadium being built (though original names changed).  These venues brought people back to downtown in huge numbers, making possible a surge of renewal that would make Nashville into a destination city today.  Metro Center began filling up areas of old river floodplain north of downtown and West End Avenue saw growth from the Broadway split to I-440 .  There were lots and lots of new buildings which you can see on the Urban Planet timeline for Nashville.   In the late 90s,  the East bank was being transformed by  the demolition of derelict industrial buildings for the new stadium and the KWV bridge which replaced the Shelby Street Bridge.  The Jefferson Street bridge in Germantown was demolished in 1990 to build the present bridge in 1992.

In the 2000s, Nashville grew steadily and avoided the worst of the slowdowns of the US economy, primarily because it had a well-diversified city economy.   Significant milestones then, I think, were the new Convention Centre (2013), the demolition of the Thermal Transfer Plant (2002) and the rebuilding of the Shelby Street Bridge into a pedestrian bridge.   These events facilitated the transformation of this area of the city (now called SOBRO) with the Schermerhorn Symphony Center and the Ascend Amphitheater into a vibrant entertainment district alongside Lower Broadway.  The Gulch also began its amazing  transformation in the 2000s from derelict warehouses.  Once Encore (2008) and Pinnacle (2010)were built,  the floodgates of construction were opened wide,  I can't possibly describe the growth of Nashville since 2010 as anything other than phenomenal!  And this amazing growth is accelerating! I won't list all these new facilities as you only need to review this forum to see all this growth far better than  I could possibly describe.   I may not have all the exact dates down in my post (and I am sure some of you will quickly correct me), but mainly my purpose in this post has been to share my take on our astounding  city.  Thanks.

Edited November 4, 2019 by Baronakim
spelling and grammar corrections

[markhollin]

Excellent summary, Baronakim!  Thanks!  : )

[titanhog]

^^Don't forget the move of the CMHoF from Music Row to SoBro was one of the first major "chances" taken on that area.  It was a bit odd seeing it sitting there all by its lonesome...but a lot soon followed.  Thankful for the few businesses that bought into downtown in the 90's and early 2000's.

[Nathan_in_DC]

2 hours ago, Baronakim said:

But I distinctly remember that Demonbreum Street  in the 80s from Music Row to the river was like a war zone.  The Gulch was rotting warehouses;  the railroad  service to the city ended and Union Station was a sad shadow of its past and from 9th to the bridge was a no-man's land of broken glass from the crowds of homeless there.  It was an area not at all safe to go.  The honky-tonks on Lower Broad and government was mostly where any activities were downtown.   Other areas were likewise in horrible shape.  The east bank of the river was an industrial slum;  From the railroad bridge to the new interstate was another blighted area...the slaughterhouse (Neuhoff),...one story warehouses and vacant lots from Joe Johnson  to Jefferson  Street.  I

I think this is super important to foot-stomp. When I was a kid in the late 80s, early 90s, and we made trips in to town, we avoided downtown almost entirely. We went in only for school trips to the State Capital, TPAC, and the Museum, the occasional event at the Municipal Auditorium, or that one time we got a treat and got to go to The Stockyards for a birthday dinner. Weirdly, I distinctly remember going to Church Street Centre just after it opened when I was 8 or 9, mainly because I thought the view of the Capital building was so cool. Part of it, I think, was that my family just wasn't very interested in what was happening on Lower Broad, but a lot of it was just how rough that part of town was. The "old Nashville" crowd have certainly put on some serious rose-colored glasses when it comes to just how bad so much of the city was 30 years ago.

[MidTenn1]

I will make one comment about the L&C Tower. It was only the tallest commercial building in the South when it was opened because the State Capitol in Baton Rouge, LA was 20+ feet taller. And the tallest outside of NYC and Chicago was the Terminal Tower in Cleveland.

Your other memories are spot on as I recall. I worked in Harvey's Department store for a year then the mailroom in the L&C Tower for a year. I know Nashville's story very well.

[dragonfly]

On 11/3/2019 at 1:48 PM, PHofKS said:

I will make one comment about the L&C Tower. It was only the tallest commercial building in the South when it was opened because the State Capitol in Baton Rouge, LA was 20+ feet taller. And the tallest outside of NYC and Chicago was the Terminal Tower in Cleveland.

Your other memories are spot on as I recall. I worked in Harvey's Department store for a year then the mailroom in the L&C Tower for a year. I know Nashville's story very well.

The Gulf Oil building in Houston was built in '29 and is 430 feet, now with a different name.  So the above should be qualified further as in the Southeast. Would be interested if the Louisiana Capitol bldg is taller than the old Houston tower. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JPMorgan_Chase_Building_(Houston)

BTW the Texas capitol bldg is just shy of 304 feet tall.

Furthermore btw there was a very long thread on the Houston C-D forum as to whether Houston could be considered an outpost of the southeast. I gave one of the most comprehensive answers as to how the argument could be made in the affirmative, since I grew up in the SE, (Atlanta and Nashville), and all my immediate and distant family did too. It turned out to be a highly contentious debate. I would post a link but that may go against the rules here. Maybe I could cut and paste.

Edited November 5, 2019 by dragonfly

[MidTenn1]

No need to go into a "Is Houston in the Southeast?" discussion. My post merely echoed the claim by the L&C Tower developers at the time of being the tallest commercial building in the south. I'm sure they had intentions in the regard that were self promoting and not any attack on Houston.

I enjoyed reading Baronakim's account of the early 50's in Nashville as a story of how far the city has come, and didn't intend to distract from that.

[smeagolsfree]

It is a matter of which map you look at. As far as geographical separation, Texas and OK are in the South, some have them in the SW and yet other have them in the West South Central. It depends on how specific of a map you look at. Some even considered Delaware and Maryland part of the SE depending on the timeframe.

Some consider all of Texas in the SE and others consider East Texas only, part of the SE. 

As anything it is a matter of opinion and what map or which article you look at.

So to settle the argument, there is no clear answer to the argument.

[Jarno]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

It is a matter of which map you look at. As far as geographical separation, Texas and OK are in the South, some have them in the SW and yet other have them in the West South Central. It depends on how specific of a map you look at. Some even considered Delaware and Maryland part of the SE depending on the timeframe.

Some consider all of Texas in the SE and others consider East Texas only, part of the SE. 

As anything it is a matter of opinion and what map or which article you look at.

So to settle the argument, there is no clear answer to the argument.

Correct no clear answers.  But if there was, I would love to know how Ohio which is completely east of Nashville is in the 'Midwest"

[PaulChinetti]

45 minutes ago, Jarno said:

Correct no clear answers.  But if there was, I would love to know how Ohio which is completely east of Nashville is in the 'Midwest"

I think that would be based more on the accent. And also that was probably “Midwest” back in the day?

[smeagolsfree]

This relates to the conversation in the Paramount thread about largest employers in the State and thought I would post a pic of Eastman Chemical in Kingsport incase you guys have never seen it. Very impressive to say the least.

 

[dReAmWiELdEr]

I think that would be based more on the accent. And also that was probably “Midwest” back in the day?

FYI:
Per the census bureau in regard to United States region definitions. I figured this would be the defining standard...

Sent from my GM1915 using Tapatalk

[smeagolsfree]

Yep that is one of the maps I have seen in the past.

[fxvol]

On 11/3/2019 at 11:43 AM, markhollin said:

Excellent summary, Baronakim!  Thanks!  : )

Hey Mark, I private messaged you today about a summary you posted a few weeks ago. - Jay

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

This relates to the conversation in the Paramount thread about largest employers in the State and thought I would post a pic of Eastman Chemical in Kingsport incase you guys have never seen it. Very impressive to say the least.

 

Good post, Ron. Eastman Chemical flies under the radar. They have plants in countries around the world. 

[billgregg]

7 hours ago, Jarno said:

Correct no clear answers.  But if there was, I would love to know how Ohio which is completely east of Nashville is in the 'Midwest"

2 hours ago, dReAmWiELdEr said:

And also that was probably “Midwest” back in the day?

I think it's a term frozen in time...without googling it I'd say about the 1830s.

My armchair etymology: At one time (the colonial period and for some time after independence) everything west of the Appalachians was "the West". That's why the land now known as the East North Central states was called the Northwest Territory. Eventually people felt the need to distinguish between the Plains and the Great Lakes region on one hand and the areas far to the west, so we ended up with the West and the Midwest.
--------------------------------------------------
[edit] Finally decided to look it up. I was only off by about  half century: "The designation Middle West probably came into use during the 1880s and was applied primarily to Kansas and Nebraska and, to a lesser extent, Iowa and Missouri. During the first decade of the twentieth century the term Middle West was applied to a wider region but with little consistency."

Edited November 5, 2019 by billgregg55

[KJHburg]

Coming to Nashville next week and I want to check out the biggest construction projects so I am guessing Nashville Yards, 5th and Broadway and what other ones should I go by? Maybe the Four Seasons.  I know you have hotels popping up like dandelions on a spring day all over.  Plus what should I check out in Franklin and Williamson county too?  Ovation? 

I am hoping for better weather than my last 2 trips where rain and clouds dominated LOL

Will be  perched in One Nashville plaza and 18th and Chet for short time too.  

and oh yes I am one of those out of town Charlotte  country music fans in a 4x4 truck too blasting country music.  

Plus where is that Wings mural everyone talks about?  Please give me the cross streets.  

Edited November 6, 2019 by KJHburg

[MidTenn1]

Start at 1st and Broad and drive up Broadway to West End for this....... 

 

[downtownresident]

44 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

Coming to Nashville next week and I want to check out the biggest construction projects so I am guessing Nashville Yards, 5th and Broadway and what other ones should I go by? Maybe the Four Seasons.  I know you have hotels popping up like dandelions on a spring day all over.  Plus what should I check out in Franklin and Williamson county too?  Ovation? 

I am hoping for better weather than my last 2 trips where rain and clouds dominated LOL

Will be  perched in One Nashville plaza and 18th and Chet for short time too.  

and oh yes I am one of those out of town Charlotte  country music fans in a 4x4 truck too blasting country music.  

Plus where is that Wings mural everyone talks about?  Please give me the cross streets.  

The wings mural is in the Gulch on 11th Ave. it’s address is 302 11th Ave s. Between the intersections of 11th Ave and Laurel street/Pine street. 

[KJHburg]

1 minute ago, downtownresident said:

The wings mural is in the Gulch on 11th Ave. it’s address is 302 11th Ave s. Between the intersections of 11th Ave and Laurel street/Pine street. 

thanks that is right around the block from where I am eating lunch so I will make a point to check it out. 

[dragonfly]

15 hours ago, PHofKS said:

No need to go into a "Is Houston in the Southeast?" discussion. My post merely echoed the claim by the L&C Tower developers at the time of being the tallest commercial building in the south. I'm sure they had intentions in the regard that were self promoting and not any attack on Houston.

I enjoyed reading Baronakim's account of the early 50's in Nashville as a story of how far the city has come, and didn't intend to distract from that.

Oh OK. Was thinking I was making a contribution to the thread.

I've probably said it before on here,in years past, but my dad got hired away from The Equitable in Atlanta by L&C in '55, so I may be the only one on here with that kind of memory of L&C before there was a tower, plus getting to see it (the lobby & my dad's department)  when it opened. The "developers" were Guilford Dudley and the board. I'm just a bit aware of what was claimed for the building since I and my family were, you could say, linked to its advent, and my dad had a clay ashtray with the original design  sticking up out of the corner, which was quite different from the final one.  And the story of why that ashtray design got scaled back. If you guys are interested.  But feeling a little standoffish right now with no need of discussion looming.

[Baronakim]

1 hour ago, dragonfly said:

Oh OK. Was thinking I was making a contribution to the thread.

I've probably said it before on here,in years past, but my dad got hired away from The Equitable in Atlanta by L&C in '55, so I may be the only one on here with that kind of memory of L&C before there was a tower, plus getting to see it (the lobby & my dad's department)  when it opened. The "developers" were Guilford Dudley and the board. I'm just a bit aware of what was claimed for the building since I and my family were, you could say, linked to its advent, and my dad had a clay ashtray with the original design  sticking up out of the corner, which was quite different from the final one.  And the story of why that ashtray design got scaled back. If you guys are interested.  But feeling a little standoffish right now with no need of discussion looming.

I do remember before the L&C tower, though your dad was an insider with L&C.  My dad worked across 4th Avenue at the Third National Bank and he sometimes took me to his office during demolition and construction  back in 1955 &1956.  For UP members not familiar with Nashville of that time, here are a couple of aerial pics showing the new L&C tower.   On the far right on the color pic, you will see the old L&C tower (14 stories?) just behind the War Memorial building .  It is right at the top middle position of the other pic.  All of the buildings of that block were demolished and the 30 story tower (now Snodgrass State office building) was eventually constructed.  The B&W ones are about 1964 as you can see the cleared area for the James Robertson Parkway and  the new City Auditorium under construction ...James Robertson is completed by then.  You can see the fairly tall old L&C and the Tennessee Theatre  Building on Church as well as what was to be torn down in the 6 blocks on either side of Deaderick Street several years later.

 

*MLBrumby corrected me in the post following this one.  I was editing at the time and did not see it.  He is absolutely correct that I misidentified the National Life tower as the old L&C tower.  Senior mindfart I guess.  The L&C offices definitely were in the building next doror to the new tower.  Thanks, MLB!

Edited November 6, 2019 by Baronakim
add another photo & correction

[MLBrumby]

This is the 'bits and pieces' thread. So I'd like to know why the original plan for the L&C tower was scaled back. And what did the original look like? 

Also, Baron Akim referred to the 'old L&C tower' at the far right of the color photo, but I believe that was the old National Life building. Not sure but I think L&C was run out of a building that still stands on 4th Avenue. It's adjacent to the 'new' tower.  

https://goo.gl/maps/4Zus7pyoGTK2M5YM6

Edited November 6, 2019 by MLBrumby

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, MLBrumby said:

This is the 'bits and pieces' thread. So I'd like to know why the original plan for the L&C tower was scaled back. And what did the original look like? 

Also, Baron Akim referred to the 'old L&C tower' at the far right of the color photo, but I believe that was the old National Life building. Not sure but I think L&C was run out of a building that still stands on 4th Avenue. It's adjacent to the 'new' tower.  

https://goo.gl/maps/4Zus7pyoGTK2M5YM6

Because Nashville.