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Nashville Bits and Pieces


smeagolsfree

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I totally agree that the peaceful message was largely lost in the aftermath. I was busy all Saturday and didn’t start watching the news until around 6 last night. I saw 30 seconds of peaceful protest news followed by hours of destruction. The organizers saying “we’re not responsible”, strikes many as folks who leave a camp fire smoldering in the woods disavowIng responsibility for the forest fire that followed. The aftermath wasn’t  exactly a surprise. It was widely predicted. Most of what I was seeing on my social media, last night, was marveling at police restraint and frustration on why they weren’t being far more forceful in stopping the destruction. Not the message that the peaceful organizers were aiming for, I’d suspect.

Edited by Nash_12South
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Who would even trust the police anymore. 
 

Meant to link to this comment specifically. 

https://www.reddit.com/r/news/comments/gtsso9/there_was_no_warning_whatsoever_police_shoot_tear/fsebyk0/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf

Edited by PaulChinetti
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24 minutes ago, PaulChinetti said:

RIP public trust.

14 hours ago, downtownresident said:

Given how coordinated this seems to be across the country, I’m not sure it says much of anything about Nashville. 

Yep. Seems like Antifa types to me. 

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You organize an event to allow understandably angry people to come together and constructively vent their grievances, whip them up with fiery speeches and then say - thanks, go home now...and expect nothing more? You can’t delink before and after for a lot of us.
I think I can figure out how to avoid being tear gassed or shot with rubber bullets. I just think both sides come out of yesterday feeling they were right all along. I don’t see progress coming.

Edited by Nash_12South
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2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

I've seen a good bit of Antifa blaming recently, but it seems to me that Blac Bloc is the more likely culprit here. To add to the confusion, both groups wear very similar costumes.

 Antifa is primarily about opposing fascism, white supremacists/nationalists, and neo Nazis. 

Black Bloc on the other hand loves some vandalism. They're anarchists whose central tenet is opposing police brutality - and piggybacking on other groups' protests in order to turn them into a riot is kind of their M.O.  

There are also several other groups (including the white supremacists that Antifa opposes) who are advocating that their members hijack these protest with the hopes of starting either a race war or the next civil war, depending on the goal of the particular 'organization.'

While it's certainly possible that you're right that some of these rioters were/are in fact 'Antifa types', based on the available evidence Antifa seems pretty unlikely to be the primary provocateurs here.

Plus, it should be noted that it's pretty convenient to scapegoat anti-fascists, especially if you're a fascist and/or if you know that Antifa is a buzz word that gets people even more riled up...that is, if your goal is to get people even more riled up.  Who would benefit from that though?

 

 

Antifa has a lengthy and recent track record of attempting to murder law abiding citizens. And now they're up to it again. Let's hope Trump and his officials put that evil group on ice.

Edited by JoeyX
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20 minutes ago, titanhog said:

Sorry...but  Antifa calling itself "anti-fascist"  is purely ironic.  They are as fascist as any group out there.  They're not just about attacking white supremacists...they are pure anarchists bent on breaking up the system.  Fascism exists in all of these groups.

I'm certainly no fan of the way Antifa tends to operate, and if they were behind the riots yesterday in any way, then screw em... but I don't really understand what you mean here.  How can someone be both an anarchist and a fascist?  I'm not sure there could be two more opposing positions.  According to Merriam Webster the definition of fascism is: "a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy."  I am in no way trying to defend them, because trust me, there are a lot of names I'd like to call them, but if we're going by the dictionary definition of the word then I don't really understand how the word "fascist" could be one of those words, unless you're just using the term as loose synonym for 'bad person' or something.

Edited by BnaBreaker
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2 hours ago, JoeyX said:

 

Antifa has a lengthy and recent track record of attempting to murder law abiding citizens. And now they're up to it again. Let's hope Trump and his officials put that evil group on ice.

What law abiding citizens has Antifa tried to kill?  I recognize that these guys are no angels, but I'm genuinely ignorant about any murder plots they've hatched.  I tried to do some research but this is all I came up with so far. Please excuse my ignorance if you've got info to share.

"Between 2010 and 2016, 53 percent of terrorist attacks in the United States were carried out by religious extremists — 35 percent by right-wing extremists and 12 percent by left-wing or environmentalist extremists, according to a University of Maryland-led consortium that studies terrorism."

 

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4 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

I'm certainly no fan of the way Antifa tends to operate, and if they were behind the riots yesterday in any way, then screw em... but I don't really understand what you mean here.  How can someone be both an anarchist and a fascist?  I'm not sure there could be two more opposing positions.  According to Merriam Webster the definition of fascism is: "a form of far-right, authoritarian ultra-nationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, as well as strong regimentation of society and of the economy."  I am in no way trying to defend them, because trust me, there are a lot of names I'd like to call them, but if we're going by the dictionary definition of the word then I don't really understand how the word "fascist" could be one of those words, unless you're just using the term as loose synonym for 'bad person' or something.

You do realize you can be both at the same time...right?  People try to brand fascism as purely "right" and that it's some purely "nationalist" way of governing (even though Communist USSR was VERY nationalistic during Stalin's era)...but when you look at the definition of anarchy and fascism, you realize that both leftist and right-wingers practice elements of both.  Antifa is anarchist...but also very much practices forcible suppression of opposition.  There are people on the left and right who both have anarchist tendencies and want the system to break down and want no government interference in their lives...but both sides use fascist tactics to achieve their goals.  They are against liberty of expression...very much a fascist tactic.

I despise all of these groups (KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, etc) who continually use anarchist, fascist, terroristic concepts to get their way and instill fear.  Btw...I don't see much of anything in the US that is purely fascist...but there are pure anarchists on both the left and right.

2 hours ago, ruraljuror said:

The first time that I heard about Antifa in the US was after the Unite The Right rally in Charlottesville, VA back in  2017.  That's where a bunch of right wing groups and militias like Project Europa, Proud Boys, 3 Percenters, Neo Nazis, White Supremacists, etc. got together with tiki torches to oppose the removal of a confederate statue on public property. At that rally, those "alt-right" groups were recorded marching with their torches while chanting "Blood and Soil" and "Jews Will Not Replace Us" which are both vintage fascist slogans from the original Nazis themselves.

Antifa has consistently been fighting those groups ever since, which is why I think it's fair to say that they accurately describe themselves as anti-fascist with no hint of "irony" as you say.

That said, Antifa are certainly not a group that I would want to join and they have definitely done some things that I would not support or condone in any way, but I do think it's a mistake to try and peg them as the "bad guys" (whether blaming them for the current riots or anything else that I'm aware that they're responsible for) when there are almost always worse guys on the other side of their fight. 

If forced to choose between siding with the guys punching Nazis or the Nazis themselves, I'm going with the Nazi punchers every time and I hope y'all would too. My grandfather (as did many of our relatives) made that same choice back in WWII.

But with regard to the current riots, can't we all at least agree that it's ok to simultaneously be on the side that opposes extrajudicial police-involved killings and the side that opposes rioting, vandalism, and looting? As far as I'm concerned, that's always the same side and that's the side that I'm on. 

If they were focused on nothing but "punching Nazis"...I would agree with you.  But that is not the case.  Not even close.  There is enough information on them now to know their agenda goes way beyond "stopping fascism."

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2 hours ago, titanhog said:

You do realize you can be both at the same time...right?  People try to brand fascism as purely "right" and that it's some purely "nationalist" way of governing (even though Communist USSR was VERY nationalistic during Stalin's era)...but when you look at the definition of anarchy and fascism, you realize that both leftist and right-wingers practice elements of both.  Antifa is anarchist...but also very much practices forcible suppression of opposition.  There are people on the left and right who both have anarchist tendencies and want the system to break down and want no government interference in their lives...but both sides use fascist tactics to achieve their goals.  They are against liberty of expression...very much a fascist tactic.

I despise all of these groups (KKK, white supremacists, Antifa, etc) who continually use anarchist, fascist, terroristic concepts to get their way and instill fear.  Btw...I don't see much of anything in the US that is purely fascist...but there are pure anarchists on both the left and right.

I don't think you really can though.  I'm not  trying to argue with you or anything, because I'm sure none of us here fit into any of these extreme categories anyway haha... but I mean, I'm just saying that these terms have very well defined definitions and can't really be used interchangeably.   Fascism is on the extreme right of the political spectrum while Communism is on the extreme left.  Anarchism isn't really even on the spectrum at all.  One of fascism's primary defining characteristics is rule by a very iron fisted authoritarian government, whereas anarchists, obviously, desire a world without authority altogether.  So to me, calling someone an anarchist fascist is like calling someone an impoverished billionaire.  They might share a secondary characteristic or two, but that doesn't make them the same thing, in the same way that a bicycle is not an airplane just because it has wheels and a seat.  

But anyway, I appreciate your response, and we can of course agree that all extremist groups should be shunned and avoided.  I'll shut up now though given that this thread probably isn't the place for a debate over political semantics.  :)

Edited by BnaBreaker
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