Nashville Bits and Pieces

[GregH]

I think "calmer" waters might be the opposite of what you want in an urban recreational waterway. People already complain about the Cumberland being kinda gross, making it more sluggish isn't going to help that. When I think of a great urban recreational river, I think of the James river in Richmond, which is actual rapids through the downtown area, but with lots of side pools and such that can be swum in, and calmer water for powerboats upstream and downstream.

[rookzie]

6 hours ago, GregH said:

I think "calmer" waters might be the opposite of what you want in an urban recreational waterway. People already complain about the Cumberland being kinda gross, making it more sluggish isn't going to help that. When I think of a great urban recreational river, I think of the James river in Richmond, which is actual rapids through the downtown area, but with lots of side pools and such that can be swum in, and calmer water for powerboats upstream and downstream.

I never messed with it, but I do kind of miss the James from when I was a Virginian.  The part I think you're referring to is near 14th St and upstream.  14th St is about where the City Canal ends parallel to the James and is the assumed extent inland of commercially navigable waters with a rather constrained shipping channel.

I didn't particularly care for river where it swells up wide and deep just west of the (scary) Benjamin Harrison lift bridge (Hopewell).  I lived mostly in the Hampton Roads region, where I either had to do the tunnels or get hung up on the US-17 lift bridge for container ships to and from Richmond Terminal.  But those rapids in Richmond definitely are as you described.

Edited April 10, 2021 by rookzie

[CenterHill]

On 4/8/2021 at 10:24 PM, titanhog said:

Ok…I’m gonna ask a really weird question…and I most definitely know this is 99.9% out of the realm of possibilities…but I’ve  always wondered if there is any way to control the Cumberland River, like a lake, in the downtown area?  At the least…from like Metro Center to Shelby Bottoms…and at the most, from John C Tune to Opryland.

Are there any places on Earth where a river is controlled like a lake as it goes through a downtown area?  I realize that would most likely mean you’d need a lock and dam of sorts…but is there anything out there that’s less than a lock and dam…some other kind of river control system that would allow 24/7 calm waters downtown to encourage more recreational usage and mitigate flooding?  Keep the water higher than normal…but never too high.

Chattanooga is one example.   There are actually two dams controlling the Tennessee River as it passes through the city  (Chickamauga Dam and Nickajack Dam).    The river remains at a fairly constant (and wide) level in downtown Chattanooga.    Both dams have locks for barge traffic.    

[titanhog]

2 hours ago, CenterHill said:

Chattanooga is one example.   There are actually two dams controlling the Tennessee River as it passes through the city  (Chickamauga Dam and Nickajack Dam).    The river remains at a fairly constant (and wide) level in downtown Chattanooga.    Both dams have locks for barge traffic.    

I was thinking something was different about the river flowing through Chattanooga.  And…it appears it allows for a “calmer” recreational usage.

[donNdonelson2]

Two dams control the Cumberland at Nashville, as well. Cheatham downstream and Old Hickory upstream. One difference is that the Cumberland is controlled by the Corps of Engineers and the Tennessee is controlled by TVA. Officially, “Cheatham Lake” extends the full distance between the two dams.

[markhollin]

New promo video letting people know Nashville is opening back up:

https://www.facebook.com/nashvillemusiccity/videos/249364453552975

[titanhog]

15 minutes ago, markhollin said:

New promo video letting people know Nashville is opening back up:

https://www.facebook.com/nashvillemusiccity/videos/249364453552975

From the downtown Fox 17 live cam yesterday...

 

[downtownresident]

18 minutes ago, markhollin said:

New promo video letting people know Nashville is opening back up:

https://www.facebook.com/nashvillemusiccity/videos/249364453552975

Like the video, but you’d think in an ad campaign highlighting new destinations they would’ve used updated footage. Fifth+Broadway and the Grand Hyatt aren’t even partially completed in the first shot of the video. 
 

You even see the old convention center in the shot of the Ryman 

[jmtunafish]

The Census Bureau has released its preliminary numbers on new housing construction in every metro area in the country, and Nashville clocks in as #8 in the US.  The official numbers will be released on May 3.  Here's the top 20 metro areas in the country for new housing construction in 2020 (preliminary):

1. Houston...68,415
2. DFW...60,062
3. New York...53,708
4. Phoenix...46,618
5. Austin...40,875
6. Atlanta...31,627
7. Los Angeles...27,074
8. Nashville...25,529
9. Washington...24,754
10. Charlotte...24,225
11. Orlando...23,974
12. Seattle-Tacoma...23,456
13. Miami-Ft Lauderdale...21,834
14. MSP...21,408
15. Tampa-St Pete...20,052
16. Denver...19,566
17. Raleigh...16,958
18. San Antonio...16,748
19. Jacksonville...16,361
20. Chicago...15,048

BTW, Tennessee had 49,135 new homes built in 2020 which means just over half the new homes in the entire state were in the Nashville MSA.  Tennessee's other MSAs:

• Chattanooga...2,374
• Clarksville...3,805
• Cleveland...458
• Jackson...162
• Johnson City...535
• Kingsport-Bristol...16
• Knoxville...4,921
• Memphis...4,758

For some reason, Morristown isn't reported.

https://www.census.gov/construction/bps/msaannual.html

Edited April 13, 2021 by jmtunafish

[donNdonelson2]

Seems a little hard to imagine that in an entire year only 16 homes were built in all of Kingsport/Bristol!

[smeagolsfree]

11 hours ago, donNdonelson2 said:

Seems a little hard to imagine that in an entire year only 16 homes were built in all of Kingsport/Bristol!

Someone has their numbers off somewhere I am sure.

[dragonfly]

On 4/9/2021 at 2:52 PM, smeagolsfree said:

There is also another expensive option and that is to dredge the river. Basically make it deeper to handle more water.

Removing mass from a river bottom doesn't leave space for floodwaters because the dredged space immediately fills with water at the dredging. What is needed is flood plain or retention basin space. Which was reduced by your mis-engineered Metrocenter reclamation. Trust me I'm in Houston, we see how this all works (or not) down here.

Edited April 15, 2021 by dragonfly

[Flatrock]

1 hour ago, dragonfly said:

What is needed is flood plain or retention basin space. Which was reduced by your mis-engineered Metrocenter reclamation. Trust me I'm in Houston, we see how this all works (or not) down here.

So it's settled: we turn Metrocenter into a large rice paddy/catfish farm. Seems reasonable. 

[PruneTracy]

3 hours ago, dragonfly said:

Removing mass from a river bottom doesn't leave space for floodwaters because the dredged space immediately fills with water at the dredging. What is needed is flood plain or retention basin space.

It's a little more nuanced than that. The easiest way to dispose of flood volume is to convey it out of the area. This is where dredging can help by increasing the flow capacity of the waterway (although as @smeagolsfree noted, it's not very cost-effective). But waterways have a maximum capacity, generally dictated by terrain, and in flatter areas or reaches the flood volume has to be stored. That's why coastal cities, with flat, slow-moving waterways, are more reliant on large-scale detention storage than inland cities with relatively steep rivers and streams. (It's also why, to answer @titanhog's question, that you don't often see impounded waterways in high-density areas, setting aside run-of-the-river types like Cheatham Lake.) When you get to areas like MetroCenter, that has a large impact on the balance between developing high-value property and providing flood detention. 

[MidTenn1]

I had to revise this a few moments ago, cause....!!!

A mashup of all the 400 footers proposed, rising and open; some are just speculation.

[downtownresident]

Great as always @PHofKS! Only change that needs to be made is to mark the Alcove as UC. 

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, PHofKS said:

I had to revise this a few moments ago, cause....!!!

A mashup of all the 400 footers proposed, rising and open; some are just speculation.

[dragonfly]

On 4/15/2021 at 12:28 PM, Flatrock said:

So it's settled: we turn Metrocenter into a large rice paddy/catfish farm. Seems reasonable. 

I guess some people don't know that Metrocenter was conceived in the late 1960's as a 'better' use for flood plain. I mean a huge area without buildout in the middle of Nashville needed to be put to use with a seat of the pants levee and all. How well that worked for downtown Nashville was seen in 2010.

 

On 4/15/2021 at 2:58 PM, PruneTracy said:

It's a little more nuanced than that. The easiest way to dispose of flood volume is to convey it out of the area. This is where dredging can help by increasing the flow capacity of the waterway

Really. Pipsqueak increase in flow volume,   infinitesimal compared to flow increase  with river  cresting.  And how far downstream would the dredging go in order to get this enhanced volume conveyance? We talking half a trillion dollar project or what?

May be of interest to give my anecdotal experience with this. First off, there are 4 government entities involved in controlling flooding in the Houston region, the two biggies are the Army Corps of Engineers and the Harris County Flood Control district,. The other two, the cities, mainly Houston, plus the state, control waters on the thoroughfares and the related pumping systems which every few years are overloaded. And what is never done is dredging. Admittedly it was done in the 30's ~ 60's by the Corps to deepen AND widen the bayous. How could this be done on a river? The only dredging is to maintain the Houston Ship Channel (the lower Buffalo Bayou on the east side) for shipping. And dredging to return sand to the beaches in Galveston County. But I saw proof of the efficacy of retention basins with the two times my house flooded. White Oak Bayou *(photo) presented 16 inches of water in my house from tropical storm Allison in 2001.  Hurricane Harvey pumped untold trillions of gallons to the region in 2017 and I received 8 inches in my house. Big difference but even bigger difference to someone I know who lives 5 miles upstream from me. She got two feet in her house from Allison and 2 inches from Harvey.   It seems reasonable to assume that a gigantic retention basin put in by Harris county made the difference. I was sad to see  the forest get ripped out from the flood plain to go deeper but that had to be the difference, The new basin is 10 miles from me and 5 miles from her.

Here's what I found on Metrocenter history:   Metrocenter: Nashville’s Little Flooding Problem | Because I Can (wordpress.com)

Edited April 17, 2021 by dragonfly

[satalac]

Was on Car and Driver's website and noticed that Polaris has used Nashville and the Natchez Trace, with a stop at Puckett's in Leiper's Fork as their playground. Honestly been thinking about getting one of these.

https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g36055509/2021-polaris-slingshot-automatic-drive-gallery/?slide=1

[downtownresident]

14 minutes ago, satalac said:

Was on Car and Driver's website and noticed that Polaris has used Nashville and the Natchez Trace, with a stop at Puckett's in Leiper's Fork as their playground. Honestly been thinking about getting one of these.

https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g36055509/2021-polaris-slingshot-automatic-drive-gallery/?slide=1

Thanks for sharing! Love the picture on 6th Ave under the MCC. 

[LA_TN]

5 hours ago, satalac said:

Was on Car and Driver's website and noticed that Polaris has used Nashville and the Natchez Trace, with a stop at Puckett's in Leiper's Fork as their playground. Honestly been thinking about getting one of these.

https://www.caranddriver.com/photos/g36055509/2021-polaris-slingshot-automatic-drive-gallery/?slide=1

That is awesome! Thank you so much for sharing! Love the MCC tunnel shots!

[titanhog]

Stumbled upon this great conversation about Nashville from urbanstl (St. Louis).  They have some wonderful things to say about Nashville (which I appreciate).  Fun to read.

https://urbanstl.com/nashville-t10034-s175.html

[Nash_12South]

Everyone wants a 50/60+ floor tower, but here is my question. Didn't the FAA raise objections to Signature tower when it was first announced? Would any developer potentially be facing the same issues? Could that be a stumbling block to achieving those heights? Just wondering.....

[PaulChinetti]

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?do=main.textpost&id=50d15578-8466-4827-9b90-bba8977d402a

Looks like it was, pretty crazy they wanted it under 433 feet, which is less than half the proposed size. 

[smeagolsfree]

I think it will all be mute when the proposed runway extension is completed.