Nashville Bits and Pieces

[Mr_Bond]

2 hours ago, BnaBreaker said:

I won't try to postulate as to the reasons why people are moving, because I'm sure they vary from person to person, but your research into the population decline reflects what I've seen as well... Metro Chicago is more or less neutral while much of the more isolated down state areas are losing residents.

Regarding Illinois, we don't have to guess.  From a piece at Governing.com, "A 2016 poll by Southern Illinois University found that nearly half of Illinois residents wanted to move to another state, citing taxes, weather, ineffective and corrupt local government and a lack of middle-class jobs."  This article discusses why Illinois is one of only two states (West Virginia is the other) to lose population over the previous decade.  Not mentioned in the survey was Illinois' massive underfunding of its state pensions, over $130 billion underfunded according to the article.  Most people aren't aware of this underfunding but it will prevent Illinois from making meaningful tax cuts for years to come.

We know that people vote their pocketbook and that jobs are most important.  A search for a better job is cited (in other articles) as the top reason people are leaving Louisiana (not all Sunbelt states are gaining population at a high rates).

In the past three years I've spoken with several people (> 10) who recently moved to Tennessee from Illinois.  Granted, this is not a statistically correct survey nor does it represent all economic groups.  To a person, all have cited high taxes first, weather second, ineffective government third.  All these still had high paying jobs so that issue was not a factor.  Here's a quote from one who moved his business here first and then himself, "When I moved here I got a $40,000 a year raise.  Same job, same income, but I'm paying $40,000 a year less in taxes."

[KJHburg]

Recap of the Nashville office market in first half of the year.  Way on its way to recover some issues.  Download the complete report as it has some great charts.

Nashville Office Market Reports | Avison Young US

[Nashcago]

I can echo much of what CaptainJilliams has said. I grew up in Nashville but have lived in Chicago for almost a decade now, in various neighborhoods, and in all that time, I've never once seen a shooting, heard a shooting, seen someone mugged, had any problems, nor do I have any friends who have experienced any sort of crime or violence. I work downtown in the loop and live currently in Lincoln Park, but also lived in Wrigleyville and Buena Park. I don't own a car and use the "L" to get around and can't even say I've ever had any problems there, day or night. I leave my front door unlocked when I go out to walk the dog. There are definitely some terrible statistics coming from specific neighborhoods which is sad, but not reflective of the city as a whole. When I go home people ask me if I'm running around dodging bullets all day and I tell them that summertime in Chicago is the greatest place on earth. 

[dragonfly]

On 7/20/2021 at 6:40 PM, henburg said:

I agree that rail isn't  a requirement for population growth, Nashville itself is pretty strong proof of that. That said, rail or transit in general are key components to pretty much any efficient urban area and I have to think that's the original poster meant in their comment. Your examples of LA and Houston also happen to be two of the most sprawling, disorganized cities in the world and far from anything that I'd want Nashville to emulate as it grows.

To be clear, I don't say that to belittle those two cities, they are world-class places with great culture. They both just also happen to share horrible traffic, environmental concerns, and lack of true urban identities that can be associated with things like the lack of a comprehensive transit alternative outside of a personal car.

What the heck does that mean, "disorganised"? OK you don't like the way Houston looks, big deal - we have the largest tree planting culture here of any city, forests planted by the state are maturing along much of the freeway system here, not so anywhere in CA. Not to mention the city expanding or promptly replacing lost live oaks lining a plethora of city thorougfares. And disorganised? You know, it turns out that what humans do worldwide is organise, believe it or not. It goes by the name of the modern industrial economy. And who cares that there are supposedly cities that one thinks Nashville should "emulate" whatever that means. I would say that 3 rail lines, dedicated bus transitways (first one just opened bisecting the West Loop and connecting with the just rebuilt NW transit center, link below) and bus lines going  out to satellite transit centers over HOV lanes w/barriers does the trick. I've dropped my vehicles off at two different dealers way out (20+ miles) and biked over to a transit center bringing a bus to take me to the NW one a couple of miles from my neighborhood. The scale of transit planning here is executed at a level you guys could never grasp without living here. For example the Beltway 8 planning began with the county buying up the land for it when it was farms back in the '50's, and it opened as a tollway in '89. There are 4 county owned tollways here between 2 counties and 1 state owned one - the recently opened Grand Parkway (99 tollway). Between the state and county management of highway expansion, I saw about 15 years ago that one of the highway construction trade magazines designated Houston as a benchmark example of highway construction and operation management. Take a look at a map zoomed out. For a metro 3-1/2+ times the size of Nashville, we have a freeway and tollway system here probably 6x the extent and complexity. "Horrible traffic"? People just don't complain around here about traffic like they do in Austin about the ungodly IH 35 bottleneck downtown, or in Nashville about the Green Hills awful bottleneck. What they complain about is the closing of streets to upgrade utilities -- because of the city going vertical at a rate like no other in the country.

video: https://abc13.com/metro-new-northwest-transit-center-shuttle-service-major-hub/8435926/

photo looking NW outbound US 290, keep in mind there are about 3 dozen transit centers generally looking like this, themed as Park 'n Ride, although with enclosed bike racks it is more like Ride 'n Ride: https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/article/21213268/houston-metro-transforms-aging-transit-hub-into-flagship-facility

 

Edited July 24, 2021 by dragonfly

[smeagolsfree]

I was living down there when Beltway 8 opened. If the toll roads are run no better than the toll roads in NJ then we do not need them. I got a bill in the mail for $33.00 for a $3.00 toll I stopped and paid, but the 3rd party camera system said I didn't stop and pay. You don' really keep a toll receipt 3 weeks after the fact when traveling through a state when you are not use to tolls. I had no recourse other than pay the filthy lowlifes, so I really think Bridgegate happened and this is a way they bilk out of state drivers. They probably have those cameras programed to pick up on certain out of state tags knowing those folks will not keep receipt's.

  I would almost give my left ear if the state legislature even started debating a toll road here to address some of the traffic concerns. They passed legislation to allow toll roads but as far as getting them done, never going to happen under the current legislative environment. The current group of lawmakers have forgotten what it means to be lawmakers regardless of party, and this is not just here but nationwide as they all have their own party agenda and name calling with nothing being done to help the average citizen any longer. They only pass laws to help those who get them elected and try to hurt those who think differently regardless if it hurts their state. So with that being said, I am afraid nothing will get done for some time here as far as traffic congestion except build bigger roads as that is all these small minded folks in charge can simply understand. 

[KJHburg]

Well here in NC we have 3 toll roads or express lanes projects with 1 more under construction and there is Not one toll booth in the state and never will be.  It is all done by electronic passes or if you Nashvillians come over your licensed plate will be recorded and you will get a bill.   It makes it fast and of course some are surprised but every toll road or express lanes is clearly marked.  If it helps get roads built faster I am all for it. 

NC Quick Pass Home

Tennessee is one of 15 states without toll roads but most of the southeast has plenty of them with Florida and Georgia the most and VA.  NC, SC and AL just have a couple or less. 

[MLBrumby]

Kentucky has had them for years. Many of their first expressways through rural areas were toll roads. I think many of them have reverted to Interstate (free) use now.  I can't discern the resistance to toll roads in Tennessee, as in some states they're popular with the rural crowd and in other states they're more an urban solution (e.g. GA 400, GHW Bush Turnpike - Tx190) for congestion. I drove a toll road south of Greenville SC a couple years ago and there was not another car on it for many miles. 

Tollways for express lanes have become very popular in Atlanta, and I'm surprised TN hasn't started them to expand the inner loop around Nashville and Memphis.  I wasn't around in TN when the lex debated/passed tollway bills, but I wonder if TDOT was instrumental in putting up a fight against them for a long time.  Given the slow approval/design/build process (not to mention the funding delays) of TDOT, I think a tollway between Williamson County (Concord Rd. east, north of Nolensville, and over to I-24 between Lavergne and Smyrna would be a quick way to get ahead of the inevitable growth in that tri-county area.  Before long, there won't be undeveloped land on which to put an expressway/parkway across that sector of the metro area. With all the growth around Nolensville alone, the tollway would be profitable in short order. 

Edited July 24, 2021 by MLBrumby

[henburg]

14 hours ago, dragonfly said:

What the heck does that mean, "disorganised"? OK you don't like the way Houston looks, big deal - we have the largest tree planting culture here of any city, forests planted by the state are maturing along much of the freeway system here, not so anywhere in CA. Not to mention the city expanding or promptly replacing lost live oaks lining a plethora of city thorougfares. And disorganised? You know, it turns out that what humans do worldwide is organise, believe it or not. It goes by the name of the modern industrial economy. And who cares that there are supposedly cities that one thinks Nashville should "emulate" whatever that means. I would say that 3 rail lines, dedicated bus transitways (first one just opened bisecting the West Loop and connecting with the just rebuilt NW transit center, link below) and bus lines going  out to satellite transit centers over HOV lanes w/barriers does the trick. I've dropped my vehicles off at two different dealers way out (20+ miles) and biked over to a transit center bringing a bus to take me to the NW one a couple of miles from my neighborhood. The scale of transit planning here is executed at a level you guys could never grasp without living here. For example the Beltway 8 planning began with the county buying up the land for it when it was farms back in the '50's, and it opened as a tollway in '89. There are 4 county owned tollways here between 2 counties and 1 state owned one - the recently opened Grand Parkway (99 tollway). Between the state and county management of highway expansion, I saw about 15 years ago that one of the highway construction trade magazines designated Houston as a benchmark example of highway construction and operation management. Take a look at a map zoomed out. For a metro 3-1/2+ times the size of Nashville, we have a freeway and tollway system here probably 6x the extent and complexity. "Horrible traffic"? People just don't complain around here about traffic like they do in Austin about the ungodly IH 35 bottleneck downtown, or in Nashville about the Green Hills awful bottleneck. What they complain about is the closing of streets to upgrade utilities -- because of the city going vertical at a rate like no other in the country.

video: https://abc13.com/metro-new-northwest-transit-center-shuttle-service-major-hub/8435926/

photo looking NW outbound US 290, keep in mind there are about 3 dozen transit centers generally looking like this, themed as Park 'n Ride, although with enclosed bike racks it is more like Ride 'n Ride: https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/article/21213268/houston-metro-transforms-aging-transit-hub-into-flagship-facility

 

Again, my labeling of urban Houston as "disorganized" is not meant to be mean or derogatory in anyway. I'm not denying that Houston is one of the most rapidly growing cities in the world or that it is a very nice place to live, I'm simply referring to their urban make-up, which is undeniably disorganized. The city has leaned much more heavily on expanding highways than developing other methods of getting around, and I think that is part of the reason why the city looks the way that it does.

The Houston skyline is deceiving in comparison to its size because it has been stretched very thin and is not centralized.

And very few other places around the world can say that they offer so many juxtapositions like this...

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/houston/article/Weirdest-images-from-Houston-s-lack-of-zoning-laws-9171688.php#photo-10774164

Of course that article offers a funnier angle on the subject, but it still illustrates my point.

[BnaBreaker]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:30 AM, dragonfly said:

What the heck does that mean, "disorganised"? OK you don't like the way Houston looks, big deal - we have the largest tree planting culture here of any city, forests planted by the state are maturing along much of the freeway system here, not so anywhere in CA. Not to mention the city expanding or promptly replacing lost live oaks lining a plethora of city thorougfares. And disorganised? You know, it turns out that what humans do worldwide is organise, believe it or not. It goes by the name of the modern industrial economy. And who cares that there are supposedly cities that one thinks Nashville should "emulate" whatever that means. I would say that 3 rail lines, dedicated bus transitways (first one just opened bisecting the West Loop and connecting with the just rebuilt NW transit center, link below) and bus lines going  out to satellite transit centers over HOV lanes w/barriers does the trick. I've dropped my vehicles off at two different dealers way out (20+ miles) and biked over to a transit center bringing a bus to take me to the NW one a couple of miles from my neighborhood. The scale of transit planning here is executed at a level you guys could never grasp without living here. For example the Beltway 8 planning began with the county buying up the land for it when it was farms back in the '50's, and it opened as a tollway in '89. There are 4 county owned tollways here between 2 counties and 1 state owned one - the recently opened Grand Parkway (99 tollway). Between the state and county management of highway expansion, I saw about 15 years ago that one of the highway construction trade magazines designated Houston as a benchmark example of highway construction and operation management. Take a look at a map zoomed out. For a metro 3-1/2+ times the size of Nashville, we have a freeway and tollway system here probably 6x the extent and complexity. "Horrible traffic"? People just don't complain around here about traffic like they do in Austin about the ungodly IH 35 bottleneck downtown, or in Nashville about the Green Hills awful bottleneck. What they complain about is the closing of streets to upgrade utilities -- because of the city going vertical at a rate like no other in the country.

video: https://abc13.com/metro-new-northwest-transit-center-shuttle-service-major-hub/8435926/

photo looking NW outbound US 290, keep in mind there are about 3 dozen transit centers generally looking like this, themed as Park 'n Ride, although with enclosed bike racks it is more like Ride 'n Ride: https://www.masstransitmag.com/technology/facilities/article/21213268/houston-metro-transforms-aging-transit-hub-into-flagship-facility

 

I mean... Houston literally has no zoning laws, so I'm not really sure how you can be surprised that one critique of it is that it is "disorganized."  

[KJHburg]

True Houston has no zoning but most of the newer areas are all laid out in huge master planned communities that have both residential and commercial. Surrounding towns mostly have zoning too.  And believe it or not Houston is not laid out much different that any other major US city.  Even some older neighborhoods have deed restrictions about what can be built.  Yes there are a few places where high rises tower over single family homes but it really does not happen that much.  

[nashvylle]

Interesting article I found as mass timber is being pushed more and more. I have serious concerns about depleting our forests as mass timber is promoted more and more. The article mentions that the CO2 supposedly saved in mass timber buildings don't account for the carbon emitted during the logging process, timber mills, and trucking. I for one would prefer to preserve forests as best as possible and advance carbon capture technology to store carbon emitted from steel and concrete. 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-mass-timber-takes-off-how-green-is-this-new-building-material

Some interesting quotes from the article:

Such industrial-type forestry — large-scale plantings of trees selected to grow fast — creates a “biological desert,” said Talberth, of the Center for Sustainable Economy. “And it’s driving the extinction of thousands of species. Mass timber is mass extinction.”

“We must ensure that mass timber drives sustainable forestry management, otherwise all of these benefits are lost,” 

“We looked at long- and short-term products, what mills burn for heat, fuel burned for harvesting, transporting from forest to mills to end use, and emissions along the way,” she said. Another major issue is how long the wood will be in use, which is not yet known. In addition, Law said, any analysis of CO2 must account for how much the forest is taking up before and after logging, “and a lot of people don’t pay attention to that part of it. We just don’t have the information to run this through a life cycle assessment.”

[titanhog]

1 hour ago, nashvylle said:

Interesting article I found as mass timber is being pushed more and more. I have serious concerns about depleting our forests as mass timber is promoted more and more. The article mentions that the CO2 supposedly saved in mass timber buildings don't account for the carbon emitted during the logging process, timber mills, and trucking. I for one would prefer to preserve forests as best as possible and advance carbon capture technology to store carbon emitted from steel and concrete. 

https://e360.yale.edu/features/as-mass-timber-takes-off-how-green-is-this-new-building-material

Some interesting quotes from the article:

Such industrial-type forestry — large-scale plantings of trees selected to grow fast — creates a “biological desert,” said Talberth, of the Center for Sustainable Economy. “And it’s driving the extinction of thousands of species. Mass timber is mass extinction.”

“We must ensure that mass timber drives sustainable forestry management, otherwise all of these benefits are lost,” 

“We looked at long- and short-term products, what mills burn for heat, fuel burned for harvesting, transporting from forest to mills to end use, and emissions along the way,” she said. Another major issue is how long the wood will be in use, which is not yet known. In addition, Law said, any analysis of CO2 must account for how much the forest is taking up before and after logging, “and a lot of people don’t pay attention to that part of it. We just don’t have the information to run this through a life cycle assessment.”

I have very little issue with logging from the standpoint of a renewable source of building materials…but the issue I do have with that industry is the logging of hardwoods and replanting with trees like pine…which are quick growth.  They really should be made to replant with whatever trees they’re cutting down.  

[markhollin]

MDHA picks new leader, Troy White, who has director of housing authorities at Atlanta business advisory firm Aprio. The hiring still requires final approval from the agency's seven-member board of commissioners.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2021/07/26/nashville-affordable-housing-agency-new-director-troy-white-atlanta-veteran/8092340002/

[smeagolsfree]

3 hours ago, markhollin said:

MDHA picks new leader, Troy White, who has director of housing authorities at Atlanta business advisory firm Aprio. The hiring still requires final approval from the agency's seven-member board of commissioners.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/2021/07/26/nashville-affordable-housing-agency-new-director-troy-white-atlanta-veteran/8092340002/

Glad the TN finally got the news release from last week. 

[LA_TN]

Congrats to a local! 

https://twitter.com/HarpethHall/status/1420215486978170880

 

Seems that embedded posts are not working

[MLBrumby]

I stumbled on this awful article about Nashville's growth on the Tennessean.com site. I use it to point out the "nothingness" of being anti-growth that I experienced as a child in Atlanta and now in Chattanooga (see my comment on the presuppositions)  https://www.tennessean.com/story/opinion/2021/07/27/new-versus-future-nashville-development-costs-of-living/5386698001/    I say "awful" because it's incompetently written (grammatically and substantially), and it harkens back to the same old "zero sum" notion of growth. I get that people don't like being priced out of an area of a city; but there are several areas where rents have not shot out of orbit; yet it ignores the widespread inflation that's underway right now. Rising rents are part of the ebb and flow of real estate written by decades of free enterprise.  

This article is very antipathetic toward "outsiders" and laden with cliches ("rearview mirrors" "modern day imperialists" and "requirements" imposed on corporations and citizens).  Then there's this nugget:  If we required all of these developers and corporations to invest proportions of their profits in meaningful — and I mean meaningful, not charitable — change in this city, it could help.    She does not elaborate on what "could help".  As someone who considers very deeply with my spouse where our charitable contributions go each year, I just shake my head at the arrogant presumption behind that statement.  I will spare you the trouble/time of reading this one, but this is what many who want to see Nashville grow and prosper are up against. IMHO, it's spawned by ignorance of what the opposite situation (to growth) would look like. 

[markhollin]

DraftKings announced a partnership with dining and entertainment concept Sports & Social — an agreement that could bring Sports & Social/DraftKings sports bars to Nashville. 

The plan is to bring its sports gaming products "to life by offering engaging, interactive fan-first destinations" to its customers in Nashville and Detroit, Chief Business Officer Ezra Kucharz said in a news release. 

Gambling kiosks and tellers would be notably absent from any Nashville locations. Brick-and-mortar gambling venues are prohibited in Tennessee, the only state to allow sports gaming solely on online platforms. Patrons of Sports & Social/DraftKings sports bars in Nashville would only be able to place wagers online using personal mobile devices.

The concept has not yet been approved by the Tennessee Education Lottery Corporation, the state's sports gaming regulator. The specific locations of Sports & Social/DraftKings venues have yet to be announced.

More at The Tennessean here:

https://www.tennessean.com/story/money/2021/07/29/draftkings-announces-sports-bar-partnership-may-come-nashville/5409205001/

[smeagolsfree]

Is anyone familiar with Raising Cane's?????

[donNdonelson2]

21 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Is anyone familiar with Raising Cane's?????

Very popular in the Houston area. Drive thru lines that sometimes rival Chic-fil-A.

[smeagolsfree]

Cool, I know the location of their first store.

[nashville born]

33 minutes ago, smeagolsfree said:

Is anyone familiar with Raising Cane's?????

Went there a couple times in the Chicago area.  Where will it go?

Edited July 29, 2021 by nashville born

[MLBrumby]

Maybe the closest to Nashville is on the strip at UT-K. Never been myself but always seems to do steady business. 

[BnaBreaker]

1 hour ago, smeagolsfree said:

Is anyone familiar with Raising Cane's?????

Yes, and I don't for the life of me get why it's a thing.  

[titanhog]

We don’t have Raising Cane’s…but we’ve got Raising Cranes. 

[bigeasy]

I used to eat there back when I lived in Columbus, OH for an internship. They have good generic chicken tendies. Aka they are a Zaxbys with a different name. 

What we need is a Foosackly's or Guthrie's