Nashville Bits and Pieces

[UTgrad09]

Is this site bigger than the thermal site?  I've seen on several sites that predict rather it be expansion or a relocation Nashville is about ten years from having an MLB team; if that is true I hope this site is big enough for an MBL ballpark (the old thermal site is not), and they build something that can be expanded onto.  No I'm not a Nashville taxpayer, but if funds come from Nashville/Metro then it's there stadium to use and expand (if possible) if Nashville were to get an MLB Franchise.

 

My personal feeling is that we are more than 10 years away from MLB unless an MLB owner absolutely wants to move here. MLB is by far the most difficult pro sports franchise to support, and at present, Nashville is still filling in the big pair of shoes it got with the Titans and Preds. I think we're looking at more like 15-20 years...and that still depends on which cities in front of us (Portland? Charlotte? Austin? Las Vegas?) end up getting teams.

 

That said, it wouldn't be a bad idea at all to build a mini-major league park (like Memphis did with their beautiful stadium) to allow for easy retrofitting in the event that a team moves here. My guess is that by the time it happens, the team will be asking for a brand new park. But who knows?

[TheRaglander]

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. Maybe I can't see the grand vision yet, but I'm not sold on this location. I get that it may revitalize that area, but I kind of still wish it would go on the thermal plant site because I fear that all that will go on there is a grassy knoll that will sometimes host a concert or a few tourists.

Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, the Sounds didn't revitalize the the area around their current area... Why would the Sounds be able to do the same at the Sulpher Site?

[nashvillwill]

Yeah, go ahead and put that "MLB expandable park" idea into the pipe dream category.

I'm really excited and hopeful that this pans out for the sounds though. Where do I sign up for season tickets?

[MidTenn1]

Oh God. I just wet myself.

 

Three important clues;

...a multilevel parking garage to be built

...a 2015 completion date

...expandable for major league baseball...

 

Goodbye Tampa Bay Rays, hello Nashville Outlaws!!

[UTgrad09]

I'm sorry. I just don't get it. Maybe I can't see the grand vision yet, but I'm not sold on this location. I get that it may revitalize that area, but I kind of still wish it would go on the thermal plant site because I fear that all that will go on there is a grassy knoll that will sometimes host a concert or a few tourists.

Maybe I'm wrong. I mean, the Sounds didn't revitalize the the area around their current area... Why would the Sounds be able to do the same at the Sulpher Site?

 

The current Sounds site was built in the late 70s, at a time when revitalization meant building skyscrapers or putting in surface parking. There was nothing to revitalize over there. It's choked off from downtown/other neighborhoods on all sides: two sides by interstate, and two sides by railroad.

 

If the current Sounds location was vacant, and the Sounds were looking to build there now, then yes, perhaps it would spur some revitalization and new development...but it would probably be limited...again, because of access. But most of the land is surrounded by warehouses...and as far as I can tell, most of them are actually being used.

 

Contrast that with the Sulphur Dell site, where you have a lot of empty or underused land, better access, between a small residential enclave and a hot, bustling neighborhood (I think the thought is that the Sulphur Dell site would pull Germantown heat down into North Capitol). 

 

Is it a guaranteed success? No. But I would put my money on it succeeding.

 

 

That said, I share the sentiment with others that the thermal site would really be a special one for a ballpark. Just the dream of being able to hit a ball into the river (even with the bluff, probably a fairy tale) would make it an awesome spot. Not to mention the skyline and river views, and the ability to utilize lots of existing parking without having to build a giant garage (I could see a rather cool entrance built into the Shelby Street Bridge). I'm not sure why that spot has been nixed, either. I like green space, but to be honest, that seems sort of a waste considering it's on the bluff side of the river.

Oh God. I just wet myself.

 

Three important clues;

...a multilevel parking garage to be built

...a 2015 completion date

...expandable for major league baseball...

 

Goodbye Tampa Bay Rays, hello Nashville Outlaws!!

 

By the time Tampa Bay moves here, we all may be wetting ourselves. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Due to our aging bladders.

[TheRaglander]

One last point and I will sulk somewhere else.  The thermal site already has bars and restaurants in walking proximity.  The Sulpher site will require a lot of development to have that.  I always dreamed of parking in a lot and spending the evening in Nashville.  Dinner, outdoor game and then drinks after.  Walk walk walk.  I just don't see anything like that by Bicentennial Mall and who knows how long before dining/bars are a walking option.  Ah well.

[UTgrad09]

One last point and I will sulk somewhere else.  The thermal site already has bars and restaurants in walking proximity.  The Sulpher site will require a lot of development to have that.  I always dreamed of parking in a lot and spending the evening in Nashville.  Dinner, outdoor game and then drinks after.  Walk walk walk.  I just don't see anything like that by Bicentennial Mall and who knows how long before dining/bars are a walking option.  Ah well.

 

Well, two things. One, I think there are a number of things in Germantown that would be within walking distance of that site (a nice pedestrian friendly crossing at Jefferson would be a must, but we're talking two blocks away). Two, I think that along with the residential project associated with this, it would likely spur a number of new bars and restaurants in this area, which would be the point. I imagine a lot of that would occur within a few years of the ballpark being built. It would create something where nothing currently is, whereas most of the SoBro area will develop naturally with little or no intervention.

 

Also, with the farmer's market two blocks away, I think the 'food court' would see a nice bump in late day business. And there are a number of cool places to eat there.

[satalac]

I believe this will be a great location. I see it being somewhat like Wrigley Field. A ballpark in a decent neighborhood with bars and restaurants around it. I think the thermal site can be better used for something else. Sulfur Dell has the history and just more potential for expansion for the ball park. I think it will do well out there. 

[smeagolsfree]

Another couple of tidbits to take away here is that the State library and Archives buildings are back on the table.

[memphian]

I can dig i; this is good for the North end of Downtown. Maybe a concert venue will someday hit the thermal site, or maybe a new tower.

[bwithers1]

I would MUCH rather see this financed by private means and not the government. But I do think it should help with everything up there. Catch 22.

I agree with you about the private financing.  But $55,000,000 WAS included in Metro's 2013-2104 Capital Improvements Budget for the construction of a minor league baseball park.  http://www.nashville.gov/Portals/0/SiteContent/Finance/docs/OMB/capital_budget/FY2014%20Mayors%20Rec%20CIB.pdf  See page 4.  The only question really was where, and maybe when.

[mirydi]

Oh God. I just wet myself.

 

...expandable for major league baseball...

 

Goodbye Tampa Bay Rays, hello Nashville Outlaws!!

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I just don't see how a tiny minor league stadium, (seating capacity probably around 5k-6k) with a pretty small budget of $40 million dollars, (which is small even for a minor league stadium) could ever be expanded to a MLB stadium. The lot this is proposed on isn't even close to being big enough to build an MLB stadium anyway. We aleady have the most boring, bland, cheapest, and ugly NFL stadium in the league, so I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the city would try to do something like this though lol!

 

I alway's envisioned an MLB stadium where the Bicentennial mall site is, bordering Jefferson st., Rosa Parks blvd, and either 4th or 5th Ave. That would be a plenty big enough lot for one, and IMO, would be the best place for one. I'll keep dreaming though lol!

[chelovek]

I like the sulphur dell site. I love the connection to local history and the fact that it will cover up some of the unfortunate vacant lots in that area. I do think it will tie Downtown and Germantown together more.

 

A few things I'll throw out there-

 

1) The titans stadium has brought almost zero redevelopment to the east bank. Limelight and Thai Phoo Ket are the only things that come to my mind. Can anybody conjecture why this is so and how a baseball stadium could be different?

 

2) One cool thing about the sulphur dell area is that it is well served by the music city bikeway and the downtown greenway. One hopes that the design of the stadium would improve these connections and play up the "healthy, active transportation to the sports game" angle rather than "drive here, sit on your butt, ingest a bunch of calories while a few pros sweat for your entertainment, and then drive home stuffed and slightly intoxicated." The latter is the feeling I get from the titans stadium with its sea of surface parking lots.

 

3) On that note, bike/ped connections into this area of downtown Nashville from the east side are pretty horrid. The Jefferson Street bridge is terrifying on foot or bike. Some improvements would be welcome and appropriate, since many fans would be coming from that direction. Another option might be to create a rails-with-trails connection utilizing the existing train bridge here: http://goo.gl/maps/KePlO . That would be particularly cool because it would be the flattest of all the bike/ped river crossings The steel bridge in Portland could serve as a model for that kind of bridge: http://theintertwine.org/sites/theintertwine.org/files/adventure_imgs/Steel%20Bridge.jpg

[nashvillwill]

Well, the Titans stadium is a different animal. All of the surface parking was built with the stadium and exclusive control of these lots was handed to Bud Adams as a part of the lease. What financial incentive does Bud have to allow any development of those surface lots? Zero. In order to get to any privately owned (developable) land on foot, you have to walk through the sea of surface parking. Thats not fun on an off day and especially uncomfortable when tryig to weave through the 20k drunk drivers trying to exit the lots in the most aggresive way possible. Therefore, I'm afraid the east bank will remain this way until the Titans lease expires in about 15-20 years (at which point the team will demand a new stadium with the threat to relocate).

On the other hand, this baseball stadium seems to be a very different bag (judging upon the little info in the media articles). The land the stadium will be built upon will include a parking garage to be shared with the state. All of the surrounding land is either privately owned, or state owned. This leaves the development potential up to those two entities. Private land will almost certainly develop. The state land is a mixed bag. We know how they can be with developments and surface lots, so that is the wild card.

[bigeasy]

I think it is also hard to compare this to the Titans. Football is a completely different atmosphere than baseball, and esp minor league. First you have so many more games with baseball, so you would be pulling in people multiple times a week. Then for football many people go to football games to tailgate, which is not something you would see with the Sounds. That being said, it may not of provided lots of development around the stadium, but I am sure it helped lots with Broadway for those that don't tailgate. I have rode my bike across the pedestrian bridge and around downtown on a gameday and it is packed. It is also hard for the area around the Titans to redevelop since so much of it is owned by PSC metals and they seem to not want to move.

[samsonh]

All,

 

I would be shocked to see us get an MLB team in the next 20 years, atounded even. Nashville is not big enough to support NHL, NFL, and MLB. I mean we have to give away tons of tickets to NHL games to make it seem like they are sold out, the Titans are actually having trouble selling tickets now(although they have sold out every game), and Vandy has had a terrible time selling tickets to their games.

 

To imagine 25-30k people shelling out the money for 81 home games is farfetched for a long time imo.

[satalac]

I like the sulphur dell site. I love the connection to local history and the fact that it will cover up some of the unfortunate vacant lots in that area. I do think it will tie Downtown and Germantown together more.

 

A few things I'll throw out there-

 

1) The titans stadium has brought almost zero redevelopment to the east bank. Limelight and Thai Phoo Ket are the only things that come to my mind. Can anybody conjecture why this is so and how a baseball stadium could be different?

 

 

You have to look at the area as well. The East bank doesn't really have the land the Sulpher Dell site has available. Also, The Titans are well served by Lower Broad since it's so easy to get to the stadium due to the pedestrian bridge. You also have tailgating as mentioned earlier, so that takes some of the business out of it. Baseball games is more of a casual experience (not that football is formal by any means haha). People come and go from the game and go for something to do on a week night. 

[nashvillwill]

I mean we have to give away tons of tickets to NHL games to make it seem like they are sold out....

FWIW, I would disagree with that. The Predators may have given out lots of comp tickets in years pasy, but in the past 3-4 years that comp number has dropped below 1000 per game (on par with other major league teams). The Predators sold to 99.2% capacity last season which is among the highest in the league and very respectable numbers.

For the past few years, and for the time being at least, our NHL franchise is doing quite well.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2013

[L'burgnative]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I just don't see how a tiny minor league stadium, (seating capacity probably around 5k-6k) with a pretty small budget of $40 million dollars, (which is small even for a minor league stadium) could ever be expanded to a MLB stadium. The lot this is proposed on isn't even close to being big enough to build an MLB stadium anyway. We aleady have the most boring, bland, cheapest, and ugly NFL stadium in the league, so I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the city would try to do something like this though lol!

 

I alway's envisioned an MLB stadium where the Bicentennial mall site is, bordering Jefferson st., Rosa Parks blvd, and either 4th or 5th Ave. That would be a plenty big enough lot for one, and IMO, would be the best place for one. I'll keep dreaming though lol!

A Minor League stadium is not 5k-6k; more like 10k-15k.  You build the complete lower tier with pressbox and some skyboxes first to accommodate Minor League capacity needs, and then if addition is needed to accommodate MLB you add additional skyboxes and upperdecks above.  As for LP Field I think compared to the other stadiums in the league (although it would be much nicer with a brick exterior) LP field looks great; compare it to new soldier field, NY's new stadium or University of Phoenix Stadium.  At least LP field doesn't look like the all glass grounded flying saucer modern European soccer stadium crap like you see at a lot of new NFL stadiums.

[UTgrad09]

I don't want to rain on anyone's parade, but I just don't see how a tiny minor league stadium, (seating capacity probably around 5k-6k) with a pretty small budget of $40 million dollars, (which is small even for a minor league stadium) could ever be expanded to a MLB stadium. The lot this is proposed on isn't even close to being big enough to build an MLB stadium anyway. We aleady have the most boring, bland, cheapest, and ugly NFL stadium in the league, so I guess it wouldn't surprise me if the city would try to do something like this though lol!

 

Seating capacity would be at least 10,000. More likely around 12-13,000.

 

Wrigley sits on about 8.5 acres and seems to do fine. Fenway is under 8 acres, though it's a bit cramped. Camden, The Jake, PNC, Petco, AT&T Park are all in the 12-14 acre range including their plazas.

 

The article mentions 13 acres of state land, and 7 acres of private property, bringing the total development to 20 acres. That's more than large enough for a ballpark. What it does not mention is that a street will likely have to be eliminated to make room for a ballpark. The blocks simply aren't wide enough for any size baseball field.

 

From digging around the metro property website, my best guess is that 4th Ave between Jackson St and the greenway/bikeway to the south will go bye-bye, and the rough footprint of the park would be between 3rd, 5th, Jackson, and the greenway.

[donNdonelson2]

 

 

I alway's envisioned an MLB stadium where the Bicentennial mall site is, bordering Jefferson st., Rosa Parks blvd, and either 4th or 5th Ave. That would be a plenty big enough lot for one, and IMO, would be the best place for one. I'll keep dreaming though lol!

The Bicentennial Mall State Park will NEVER be replaced with a baseball stadium or anything else...it was designed with the specific purpose of preserving a view of the Tennessee State Capitol building in perpetuity!

[chris holman]

This just posted could north of the capital become the next gulch? http://www.bizjournals.com/nashville/blog/2013/08/how-the-north-capital-could-become-the.html

[samsonh]

FWIW, I would disagree with that. The Predators may have given out lots of comp tickets in years pasy, but in the past 3-4 years that comp number has dropped below 1000 per game (on par with other major league teams). The Predators sold to 99.2% capacity last season which is among the highest in the league and very respectable numbers.

For the past few years, and for the time being at least, our NHL franchise is doing quite well.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/attendance/_/year/2013

 

 

I will disagree and show the correct numbers for the most recent season. They are far different than what you have shown.

 

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/6/22/4454654/nashville-predators-paid-attendance-plummeted-in-2013

[UTgrad09]

^^^The last season was somewhat of an anomaly because of the lockout. Fans had something like 2 weeks notice what the season schedule would look like. That, and a number of season ticket holders decided to drop their tickets once the lockout was in full swing. A lot of teams gave higher than usual comps to the fans because of that. On top of that, the Preds had their worst season in years.

I would expect that as things return to normal in the NHL, you'll see a modest drop in comps this year, and (hopefully) as the team improves moving forward.

It's a far cry from years ago when we were giving that many comps and still only having 13-15k show up to the games. The team is healthy, and the new ownership is dedicated. They operate the arena and schedule events, and have turned Bridgestone into the 6th biggest concert venue in the United States. They have more corporate sponsorships than ever before. They are also spending money on enhancing the arena and the general experience. I really wouldn't worry about the Preds too much.

[nashvillwill]

I will disagree and show the correct numbers for the most recent season. They are far different than what you have shown.

http://www.ontheforecheck.com/2013/6/22/4454654/nashville-predators-paid-attendance-plummeted-in-2013

Ok. Ill give you that last season was higher than normal on comps. But quoting the article you posted;

"In 2011-12 the averages were 16,103 in paid and 646 comp. In 2010-11 they were 15,525 in paid and 650 comp."

Like I said, below 1000 for the last few seasons. Now I admit, I was wrong about last season as i was grouping the last few years together. I hadn't seen those numbers. However, I do believe the ESPN figures to be accurate on attendance figures.

Regardless, I was simply stating that I think the health of the Predators Franchise is at a high point.

Edited August 22, 2013 by nashvillwill