Catawba Casino Complex

[King of the Queen City]

43 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

this case will likely head to the Supreme Court   SC based Catawba Indians wanting a casino in Kings Mountain NC and the Cherokees primarily of NC do not like it. 

https://www.shelbystar.com/news/20190315/us-senate-bill-pushes-for-kings-mountain-casino?utm_source=Business+North+Carolina+Daily+Digest&utm_campaign=d3a4401933-EMAIL_CAMPAIGN_3_1_2019_COPY_01&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_7ae5defd0d-d3a4401933-122553233#new_tab

Interesting how tribes that existed before states can be tied to state lines. Cherokee not only has the Harrah’s casino on the reservation but another one in Murphy, which is an easier drive from Atlanta. They advertise both in Atlanta and Charlotte for their casinos, so I would say they are more worried about competition than anything.

[videtur quam contuor]

Most indian reservation land is owned by the federal government in a trust for the use by tribes alone. Qualla Boundary Cherokee reservation is such trust land and limits sale to native members. Tribes may add to their land by purchase, expanding their territory. This appears to be the Catawba process of land purchase to create an addition to the trust lands currently in South Carolina. Thus the purchase, rather than trust issue, plus the cross border move alerts the Cherokee concerns.

https://revenuedata.doi.gov/how-it-works/native-american-ownership-governance/

Edited March 18, 2019 by tarhoosier

[King of the Queen City]

@tarhoosier Thanks for the information. I have never completely understood how it works.  I’m assuming the Cherokee tribe purchased the land in Murphy which is a good distance from the reservation (56 miles from their other hotel and casino). Could the Catawba tribe purchase land in Uptown Charlotte if they wanted? I think with the history of Trade and Tryon being the intersection of two Native American trading paths that they should have more opportunities to do business in the city.

[KJHburg]

2 hours ago, King of the Queen City said:

@tarhoosier Thanks for the information. I have never completely understood how it works.  I’m assuming the Cherokee tribe purchased the land in Murphy which is a good distance from the reservation (56 miles from their other hotel and casino). Could the Catawba tribe purchase land in Uptown Charlotte if they wanted? I think with the history of Trade and Tryon being the intersection of two Native American trading paths that they should have more opportunities to do business in the city.

I know the Cherokees  and no Murphy and that county of Cherokee was apart of the Cherokee nation's main holding areas.  There are some sacred Cherokee sites in the aptly named Cherokee county.  I have seen them on my trip there.   I am telling you this will go to the Supreme Court as the Cherokees have a lot more money to fight this. 

KJ from Manteo to Murphy 

[King of the Queen City]

34 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

I know the Cherokees  and no Murphy and that county of Cherokee was apart of the Cherokee nation's main holding areas.  There are some sacred Cherokee sites in the aptly named Cherokee county.  I have seen them on my trip there.   I am telling you this will go to the Supreme Court as the Cherokees have a lot more money to fight this. 

KJ from Manteo to Murphy 

That makes sense.  I’m not one to gamble, but I have been to Harrah’s for restaurants and what not.  The casino seems to have pumped a lot of money into the reservation. I haven’t followed this very closely. What is the reasoning for the Catawbas wanting to put this in King’s Mountain instead of SC?

A famous sign at the state line:

Edited March 18, 2019 by King of the Queen City

[KJHburg]

From what I heard it was SC would not allow it but that does not seem right to me and a casino off I-77 as the Catawbas are in south York County would be such a draw.  I think they think because we have 2 Indian casinos in NC their chances are better here.     Plus on I-85 gets the upstate and Charlotte markets.  

The Cherokees have built new schools (you should see the school complex in town on the reservation probably the nicest in all of western NC) spent money on housing, a small transit system, investments in new shopping centers, a golf course, a movie theater, Cherokee language programs etc.  Their Cherokee Indian Hospital is another new facility.  I really think they have reinvested their money smartly and better the lives of their people.   The transformation of the main part of town has been great with new parks signage etc.   (hey you can tell I have been there alot, try to go 2x  a year and even my mom who does not gamble likes the town)   I have been to the movie theater in town and if you are a Tribal member you do get a discount but it was so much cheaper anyway than Charlotte movie theaters.  

These photos are all on the reservation to speak.

1. 2.  Bamboo forest in downtown Cherokee in a park  3. Soco Falls on the reservation as well.  Here the Cherokees have spent money to improve access with trails and so forth.  

4.  already the largest hotel in North Carolina this is the newest addition with another 600-800 hotels and 100K sq convention center.  Here is an article from the Cherokee One Feather newspaper.   It will bring the casino hotel to 1700 rooms! 

https://theonefeather.com/2017/01/harrahs-cherokee-announces-new-expansion/

[Desert Power]

11 minutes ago, King of the Queen City said:

That makes sense.  I’m not one to gamble, but I have been to Harrah’s for restaurants and what not.  The casino seems to have pumped a lot of money into the reservation. I haven’t followed this very closely. What is the reasoning for the Catawbas wanting to put this in King’s Mountain instead of SC?

A famous sign at the state line:

 

SC doesn't allow casinos

[KJHburg]

Here is another story on the Cherokee's expansion of Harrahs and one of the reasons is that they have many requests for meetings and conventions and don't have another room sfor them. Plus their occupancy rates are so high so NC's largest most massive hotel is right now in Cherokee  and it is growing to 1800 rooms.    That is why they will fight the Catawbas on their Kings Mountain plans. 

https://www.wspa.com/news/groundbreaking-ceremony-held-for-harrah-s-cherokee-expansion/1265734748

 

[videtur quam contuor]

I was in Cherokee once, long before these improvements, and the sadness, pity and decay, including that physical, moral and human was palpable. I was reminded of that scene when I was driving through Montana a few years ago and took a wrong exit which was in fact just to serve the reservation community and nothing else. There is a lot of "nothing else" in Eastern Montana. The community, or village or whatever it may be called there was enough to turn me around as quickly as possible. So, like that in Cherokee  and now to this new reality within a lifetime. Less than a lifetime really.

30% of Cherokee County is Federal land, much more in Graham county. Large amounts of federal land means much lower tax base thus no way to turn economic tide without external factors.

Edited March 18, 2019 by tarhoosier

[ssh214]

So hypothetically let’s say the land issue gets pushed through and Catawba now has the land in North Carolina to build their casino. They can only operate as a Class II facility until they agree to a compact with the state of North Carolina. Class II means bingo based. So they can have slot machines that their backend math model is based off of bingo patterns as opposed to random number generation as is the case with Vegas Style machines. The Catawba tribe can also operate a poker room but cannot have any table games like blackjack, roulette, etc... (a casual player most likely won’t be able to tell the difference in the slot machine that it is based off bingo vs a random number generator unless if they were to pay close enough attention to the help screen or in the corner where there is a bingo patter shown). The significance of Class II vs Class III is that Class II the tribe does not have to pay taxes to the state as a percentage of net win per slot machine, whereas for the Class III games they do. 

I work with the Cherokee Casino operation and let me tell you they are wonderful people to work with

Edited March 18, 2019 by saamh

[Clemson16]

1 hour ago, saamh said:

So hypothetically let’s say the land issue gets pushed through and Catawba now has the land in North Carolina to build their casino. They can only operate as a Class II facility until they agree to a compact with the state of North Carolina. Class II means bingo based. So they can have slot machines that their backend math model is based off of bingo patterns as opposed to random number generation as is the case with Vegas Style machines. The Catawba tribe can also operate a poker room but cannot have any table games like blackjack, roulette, etc... (a casual player most likely won’t be able to tell the difference in the slot machine that it is based off bingo vs a random number generator unless if they were to pay close enough attention to the help screen or in the corner where there is a bingo patter shown). The significance of Class II vs Class III is that Class II the tribe does not have to pay taxes to the state as a percentage of net win per slot machine, whereas for the Class III games they do. 

I work with the Cherokee Casino operation and let me tell you they are wonderful people to work with

I think anything short of Class III would be a waste. I’m not driving an hour away to play bingo based slot machines. That sounds like Empire City Casino in Westchester NY which in my opinion is not a fun casino to gamble at. There has been many attempts to open a full operation casino (I assume that means Class III) in the metro NY area, which would effectively shut down Empire as people want table games and real slots.

Would love to see this materialize and work with NC to legalize sports betting as well.

[KJHburg]

WSOCTV is reporting on the Catawba casino and efforts to get it passed in DC.  However the Cherokees are still very much opposed.

Charlotte will have its 1000 Plus room hotel but it is a mere 35 miles from the convention center.

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/nc-kings-mtn-casino.asp

[Guest]

2 minutes ago, KJHburg said:

WSOCTV is reporting on the Catawba casino and efforts to get it passed in DC.  However the Cherokees are still very much opposed.

Charlotte will have its 1000 Plus room hotel but it is a mere 35 miles from the convention center.

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/nc-kings-mtn-casino.asp

holy crap I didn't know it was 1500 rooms!

[SgtCampsalot]

3 hours ago, KJHburg said:

WSOCTV is reporting on the Catawba casino and efforts to get it passed in DC.  However the Cherokees are still very much opposed.

Charlotte will have its 1000 Plus room hotel but it is a mere 35 miles from the convention center.

https://www.500nations.com/casinos/nc-kings-mtn-casino.asp

Hm. Tension between the Catawba Nation (South Carolina) and the Cherokee Nation (North Carolina) regarding this SC Nation building on NC land adjacent to Cherokee land.  The nuances in this are deep... Too deep for me to know how I feel about it.

[KJHburg]

My feelings on this is build it off I-77 in York County near the Catawba reservation where the members could work at the new casino hotel.  They should force SC to allow it and since the state of SC gives millions in incentives to businesses I am not sure why they don't want this one.   KJ stands with the Cherokees!

[JorgiPorgi]

1 hour ago, SgtCampsalot said:

Hm. Tension between the Catawba Nation (South Carolina) and the Cherokee Nation (North Carolina) regarding this SC Nation building on NC land adjacent to Cherokee land.  The nuances in this are deep... Too deep for me to know how I feel about it.

Are we even allowed to feel anything about it? It’s confusing.  I’m originally from Cleveland County where this will be built- I know the Shelby Star did a poll on it a few years ago and more than half of the people opposed it because they didn’t want gambling in Cleveland County.  This will probably be messy in so many different ways. 

[KJHburg]

My thoughts are an American Indian casino should be built if desired to benefit the native members of that tribe.  I have seen what has happened in Cherokee with their casino and the money that has come in.  They have rebuilt their schools, built a small hospital, improve the town with parks etc, built affordable housing, started a Cherokee language immersion program and so forth.  The community has greatly benefited and the casino is the largest employer in NC west of Asheville.    I am just not sure how a casino built 30-40 miles from where your people live benefits them with jobs etc.     I think this will be fought in court and may not be decided for years.    There of course big pluses for Cleveland county but also some negatives as well.  If the I-85 corridor is where they want to build it to attract a larger customer based why not over the state line in SC?  What about our  Lumbees in eastern NC?  This is a long way from being decided and when a decision comes it might move to the courts.  

Edited April 18, 2019 by KJHburg

[King of the Queen City]

I agree that York County makes more sense if they can find a way to get it built in SC. In addition to the proposed Panthers practice facility it would give more reason to extend light rail to Rock Hill.

[KJHburg]

All this talk of Native Americans makes me want to do an overnight trip to my favorite reservation that being the Qualla Boundary   Even if I am just charged slightly higher at the movie theater because I am not a tribal member.  

Here is my go to newspaper when on the reservation  

https://theonefeather.com/

Edited April 19, 2019 by KJHburg

[ssh214]

7 hours ago, KJHburg said:

All this talk of Native Americans makes me want to do an overnight trip to my favorite reservation that being the Qualla Boundary   Even if I am just charged slightly higher at the movie theater because I am not a tribal member.  

Here is my go to newspaper when on the reservation  

https://theonefeather.com/

You should go check out their bowling lanes at the casino! It’s pretty cool

[KJHburg]

Since the Cherokees are involved in this discussion about the Catawba's casino project in Kings Mtn.  Here is what the Cherokees are doing. 

They are adding 725 rooms to their existing 1100 room hotel casino.  That is more rooms being added than in the biggest hotel in Charlotte!  Plus more convention space and another parking garage (the 3rd one) 

Photos from this week all over the reservation: the Qualla Boundary home of the Eastern Band of Cherokee Indians.   1. newer housing development one of many built in the last decade on the reservation.   2. Cherokee schools complex is first class and notice everything is in Cherokee language as well (they start off elementary school students in Cherokee language immersion) so the language does not die off.   3. Mingo Falls 4. 5. New Cherokee Hospital (no such facility existed on the reservation before this) .6.7.8. 9. New 725 room addition to main casino hotel, new parking garage and new convention and meeting spaces.  10.11. 12. existing hotel towers  13. new parking garage.    Last 2 photos the Cherokee Schools campus Elementary to high school one large campus. 

I think the Cherokees have spent their money wisely on investing in their community and that is why I question a casino 30 miles or more from the Catawba Reservation in Kings Mtn NC.  Would it not make more sense to put in Rock Hill near the existing Catawba community?    

https://www.indianz.com/IndianGaming/2018/08/08/eastern-band-of-cherokee-indians-continu.asp

Edited May 19, 2019 by KJHburg

[Guest]

Did Cam Newton design that school sign on Instagram! ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[videtur quam contuor]

That is the Cherokee syllabary designed by Sequoyah, an illiterate Cherokee. Really. An amazing American everyone should know of. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoyah

[KJHburg]

10 minutes ago, tarhoosier said:

That is the Cherokee syllabary designed by Sequoyah, an illiterate Cherokee. Really. An amazing American everyone should know of. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sequoyah

The Rees Jones designed 18 hole golf course owned by the Cherokees is called Sequoyah National. 

https://sequoyahnational.com/

The whole reservation is like another state or country within NC as they have no NC income taxes, no property taxes of the counties they are in,  a Tribal levy across the reservation like a sales tax,  and all the land is owned by US Dept of Indian Affairs and it leased to people.  Plus all the signage is in both English and Cherokee.  If you have never been there or not been lately take a trip over there only 3 hours from Charlotte and 1 hour from Asheville.  NC lottery tickets are not sold on the reservation either and only mixed drinks are available at Harrahs and its restaurants. 

[dylansukkert]

Was just at Cherokee casino resort last Sunday and Monday. Great two night get away! I love it being 2-3 hours away. So I don’t go too much.