Catawba Casino Complex

[Windsurfer]

Another sad day for an area that needs to preserve more land.  Do you guys who are 'for' this ever climb the beautiful trails up Crowders?  It had potential to be such a scenic area within shouting distance of Charlotte.

[InSouthPark]

29 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

Another sad day for an area that needs to preserve more land.  Do you guys who are 'for' this ever climb the beautiful trails up Crowders?  It had potential to be such a scenic area within shouting distance of Charlotte.

How is developing a parcel off an interstate exit 4-5m from Crowders going to effect it?  Yes you could see it from the Pinnacle if you climb up the rocks where it says do not climb up.  You can also see the two giant quarries, distribution centers,  and I-85.   I have hiked and run every trail in Crowders...many many many times.   Besides that one spot on Crowders, you would never see it from any other trail/overlook in the park. 

[Windsurfer]

1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

How is developing a parcel off an interstate exit 4-5m from Crowders going to effect it?  Yes you could see it from the Pinnacle if you climb up the rocks where it says do not climb up.  You can also see the two giant quarries, distribution centers,  and I-85.   I have hiked and run every trail in Crowders...many many many times.   Besides that one spot on Crowders, you would never see it from any other trail/overlook in the park. 

I'm glad to hear of someone here who enjoys the area. 

We keep moving the goal posts. First, it's just a distribution center or two, then a strip mall,  then a small subdivision. Then we move on to widening the roads and adding more to accommodate the new traffic that everyone complains about. (Always the first complaint when there's a new rezoning petition).   We are barely trying to protect what we have out there.  The casino will require a massive parking lot, then extra roads. Then it'll attract restaurants and another strip mall or two. Mark my word. 

Edited September 22, 2020 by Windsurfer
grammar

[InSouthPark]

33 minutes ago, Windsurfer said:

I'm glad to hear of someone here who enjoys the area. 

Well I can say I only truly "enjoy" the area when I get there at 8am at gate opening and head directly up to Ridgeline trail toward Kings Mountain SP.  Otherwise it is too damn crowded.  Mass crowds have ruined Crowders and I have written it off for anything other than trail running or maybe a dead of winter cold hike.   I personally don't believe anything can hurt Crowders as much as the many Charlotte Agenda articles promoting it over the years.   Thank God they don't promote ASCG. 

[Desert Power]

7 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Another sad day for an area that needs to preserve more land.  Do you guys who are 'for' this ever climb the beautiful trails up Crowders?  It had potential to be such a scenic area within shouting distance of Charlotte.

Sorry, but this seems like a pretty odd take to me. Not sure what hiking in the Crowders Park has to do with this casino development. I don't really mind what the scenery is from the top. When you get to the end of the beautiful Calico Basin Trail in Red Rock Canyon you can get a great view of the Vegas Strip too.

This exit would only be used if you were going down to Boulders Access, which usually has just about nobody at it. Actually, I think I will  hike there tomorrow. I also look forward to having a local casino post-COVID because Craps and Roulette are fun to play.

4 hours ago, InSouthPark said:

Well I can say I only truly "enjoy" the area when I get there at 8am at gate opening and head directly up to Ridgeline trail toward Kings Mountain SP.  Otherwise it is too damn crowded.  Mass crowds have ruined Crowders and I have written it off for anything other than trail running or maybe a dead of winter cold hike.   I personally don't believe anything can hurt Crowders as much as the many Charlotte Agenda articles promoting it over the years.   Thank God they don't promote ASCG. 

As long as the Agenda doesn't start pimping Boulders Access or Kings Mountain National Park in SC we will be fine. Even Reedy Creek seems relatively  untouched.

[Windsurfer]

8 hours ago, InSouthPark said:

Well I can say I only truly "enjoy" the area when I get there at 8am at gate opening and head directly up to Ridgeline trail toward Kings Mountain SP.  Otherwise it is too damn crowded.  Mass crowds have ruined Crowders and I have written it off for anything other than trail running or maybe a dead of winter cold hike.   I personally don't believe anything can hurt Crowders as much as the many Charlotte Agenda articles promoting it over the years.   Thank God they don't promote ASCG. 

Try during Panthers games. Nice window at that time.

All the more reason we need MORE preserved spaces.

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Sorry, but this seems like a pretty odd take to me. Not sure what hiking in the Crowders Park has to do with this casino development. I don't really mind what the scenery is from the top. When you get to the end of the beautiful Calico Basin Trail in Red Rock Canyon you can get a great view of the Vegas Strip too.

This exit would only be used if you were going down to Boulders Access, which usually has just about nobody at it. Actually, I think I will  hike there tomorrow. I also look forward to having a local casino post-COVID because Craps and Roulette are fun to play.

As long as the Agenda doesn't start pimping Boulders Access or Kings Mountain National Park in SC we will be fine. Even Reedy Creek seems relatively  untouched.

 It's hard for me to understand how you can look out over the landscape, see flashing lights, parking lots, vinyl sided hell, highways and stripmalls and find that relaxing. And, it's obvious you don't understand what I see in a carpet of green trees.  Have the Atlantic Cities of the world, but ALSO let's spare for others some of what used to be.

I grew up watching South Park change from cow pastures to the mall, Highway 51 to Ballentyne, and of course Matthews into what it is now. Now I'm watching Huntersville turn into Pineville.  Just imagine for one second what Charlotte would look like if half of that development occurred in central Charlotte instead of sprawling out over land that should be home to animals, and generating oxygen instead of CO.   Matthews, Pineville, Huntersville, ....blah, blah, blah they're all the same. Might as well be Oshkosh.

[SoDoSoPa]

1 hour ago, Windsurfer said:

 It's hard for me to understand how you can look out over the landscape, see flashing lights, parking lots, vinyl sided hell, highways and stripmalls and find that relaxing. And, it's obvious you don't understand what I see in a carpet of green trees.  Have the Atlantic Cities of the world, but ALSO let's spare for others some of what used to be.

I grew up watching South Park change from cow pastures to the mall, Highway 51 to Ballentyne, and of course Matthews into what it is now. Now I'm watching Huntersville turn into Pineville.  Just imagine for one second what Charlotte would look like if half of that development occurred in central Charlotte instead of sprawling out over land that should be home to animals, and generating oxygen instead of CO.   Matthews, Pineville, Huntersville, ....blah, blah, blah they're all the same. Might as well be Oshkosh.

In all fairness, the casino, restaurants, and retail will not only provide tax revenue but also jobs to people in KM and Bessemer City.   They should have more of say in what happens than tourist from Charlotte who come to enjoy the views.
I'm against urban sprawl as well, but I don't think they are lacking for open space in Cleveland County. 

[Desert Power]

2 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

 It's hard for me to understand how you can look out over the landscape, see flashing lights, parking lots, vinyl sided hell, highways and stripmalls and find that relaxing. And, it's obvious you don't understand what I see in a carpet of green trees.  Have the Atlantic Cities of the world, but ALSO let's spare for others some of what used to be.

I grew up watching South Park change from cow pastures to the mall, Highway 51 to Ballentyne, and of course Matthews into what it is now. Now I'm watching Huntersville turn into Pineville.  Just imagine for one second what Charlotte would look like if half of that development occurred in central Charlotte instead of sprawling out over land that should be home to animals, and generating oxygen instead of CO.   Matthews, Pineville, Huntersville, ....blah, blah, blah they're all the same. Might as well be Oshkosh.

I agree with the notion that as much growth as possible should be concentrated in center city.  This should always be the goal. I'd put this casino in First Ward if I ruled the world.

However, it isn't like you are getting a "carpet of green" trees with this view today. This is right next to an interstate that you can hear from the peaks of this range. It is right next to a large mica plant! When you look toward the city from Crowders peak, you are looking past another peak that was mined down into a hill. You hear a shooting range from King's Pinnacle.

You might hate any sprawl at all, but I have a couple of friends that have lived their whole lives right around the corner from this development and hiked the trails in Crowders State Park (and done a lot more on them lol) more times than any of us ever will. They are stoked about this development in a part of the metro that seriously lack opportunites.  We're not turning this entire area into a protected national park, nor should we. 

There is a great national park just down the road though. You can hike up Joes Mountain without a trail and never see a soul. Rarely see anyone at Brown's either.

 

[InSouthPark]

10 hours ago, Desert Power said:

There is a great national park just down the road though. You can hike up Joes Mountain without a trail and never see a soul. Rarely see anyone at Brown's either.

You just hush your mouth!  Nothing to see there.  No history to learn.  Move along!

[Windsurfer]

12 hours ago, SoDoSoPa said:

In all fairness, the casino, restaurants, and retail will not only provide tax revenue but also jobs to people in KM and Bessemer City.   They should have more of say in what happens than tourist from Charlotte who come to enjoy the views.
I'm against urban sprawl as well, but I don't think they are lacking for open space in Cleveland County. 

Not lacking for open space in Cleveland.... Hold that thought.

This is what i mean about "moving goal posts".  Little by little, parking lot by parking lot, street by street, and on an on.  "Jobs" and tax revenue.   Sure.  Always falls back on this.  Again, none of that matters if we don't have clean air, water and places that take us back to our millions of years of evolution.  The industrial revolution is only several hundred years old versus our millions of years of hunting and gathering in the wilderness. 

Habitat fragmentation is the number one cause of animal extinction.  

As far as jobs, I would like to add that "tourists" to other cities more than pay for jobs and improvements in areas that are near big cities when it comes to visiting nature.  Portland Oregon is a prime example. The Columbia River Gorge is probably the single biggest draw in that area with all the water falls, etc.  Entire towns along its banks basically survive because of eco tourism.  Don't discount eco tourism. 

Edited September 23, 2020 by Windsurfer
grammar

[SoDoSoPa]

6 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Not lacking for open space in Cleveland.... Hold that thought.

This is what i mean about "moving goal posts".  Little by little, parking lot by parking lot, street by street, and on an on.  "Jobs" and tax revenue.   Sure.  Always falls back on this.  Again, none of that matters if we don't have clean air, water and places that take us back to our millions of years of evolution.  The industrial revolution is only several hundred years old versus our millions of years of hunting and gathering in the wilderness. 

Habitat fragmentation is the number one cause of animal extinction.  

As far as jobs, I would like to add that "tourists" to other cities more than pay for jobs and improvements in areas that are near big cities when it comes to visiting nature.  Portland Oregon is a prime example. The Columbia River Gorge is probably the single biggest draw in that area with all the water falls, etc.  Entire towns along its banks basically survive because of eco tourism.  Don't discount eco tourism. 

I agree with you for the most part, but I think that you ire is a bit misplaced with this project for several reasons;

It's being built on already developed land right off the interstate, they aren't carving up CM Park for it.  
If you are looking at environmental impact to Cleland Co, I would look more into Lithium mining.
I know you don't want to hear it, but this area is low income with low growth so hundreds of jobs for very little impact.
It's being opened by the Catawba tribe, I won't get into the politics of that, but let's just say they should have a say in what is built also.

I'm not discounting ego tourism, but one of the biggest gripes about it is that places become to popular and tend to get overrun. That runs counter to the premise of tourism in general.  I think the focus should be on improving parks and air/water quality for the people living in these places more so than to create eco-tourism. 
 

[CLT2014]

"Hi Gaston and Cleveland!
I'm from Charlotte,
Your city is roughly as old as mine, but my city is far wealthier, has tons of jobs and Fortune 500 companies, and gleaming skyscrapers. Sometimes I like to have something to do on the weekend to escape city life and I've decided your city is where I like to do that. I don't want to live there, but maybe visit for a few hours and then get the heck out of dodge and go back to civilized Charlotte. Because of that, I need you to make sure you do what I want with your area where you pay taxes. I know that means you may be unemployed and not having anything to do while I eat in my food hall in an old mill and swing by the new Gucci at SouthPark Mall, but all well. Thanks for supporting Charlotte's recreational activities on Saturday! Also.... we are more than happy to direct all take offs for those hundreds of daily flights from our airport right over your county. The planes take off and we go "BANK TO THE LEFT!"
Love,
Your neighbors in Charlotte"

Edited September 23, 2020 by CLT2014

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, SoDoSoPa said:

I agree with you for the most part, but I think that you ire is a bit misplaced with this project for several reasons;

It's being built on already developed land right off the interstate, they aren't carving up CM Park for it.  
If you are looking at environmental impact to Cleland Co, I would look more into Lithium mining.
I know you don't want to hear it, but this area is low income with low growth so hundreds of jobs for very little impact.
It's being opened by the Catawba tribe, I won't get into the politics of that, but let's just say they should have a say in what is built also.

I'm not discounting ego tourism, but one of the biggest gripes about it is that places become to popular and tend to get overrun. That runs counter to the premise of tourism in general.  I think the focus should be on improving parks and air/water quality for the people living in these places more so than to create eco-tourism. 
 

Thanks for your courteous reply. 

I like that "ego tourism".  There's probably some truth to that slip up. :-) 

I disagree that eco tourism spots....TRUE eco tourism sites are over run.  Costa Rica has done a wonderful job, as have Oregon , Alaska, and others.  Yes, there're some places that are over run, but this also due to lack of places to go.  

I've always admired the Catawba tribe, what's left of it. I fully understand they were the Europeans' first allies in these parts in our efforts to deal with The Cherokee to the West and Tuscarora to the East.  If this land is on their land, then of course they can do with it what they want (are the other industrial sites you reference on their land?)  Native Americans in other parts of the country understand eco tourism now and are beginning to capitalize on it.  On the other hand, I can show you some pretty depressing casinos out West on Native land.  

Regards

[rancenc]

Poised to capitalize on potential growth around the new casino complex??  Let's see!

https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2020/10/08/catawba-indian-nation-casino-land-sale-100-acres.html

[KJHburg]

the casino site through the trees as I drove by today I-85 exit 5.  there is no businesses currently at this exit I could see as this is not the major Kings Mtn exit.  You can see site work through the trees. 

 

[Windsurfer]

Good bye, open space.   

[Yeahdoug]

The degenerate gambler in me can’t wait  

[KJHburg]

evidently negotiations are ongoing with the Catawbas and the state according to WRAL TV in Raleigh.

https://www.wral.com/quietly-negotiations-ongoing-over-new-north-carolina-casino-plans/19360550/

In other news if the Lumbees in Robeson county get federal recognition which I believe they should , they should announce a HUGE casino right on I-95 at the intersection US 74.  I am talking 20 stories huge gaming center the whole thing.  and I know it would help Robeson County one of the poorest counties in the state. 

from the Business NC mag on Monday

""Virginia cities that may have significant casinos pending results of November elections. Three of the cities -  Danville, Norfolk and Portsmouth - are close to the N.C. state line, while Bristol is about 60 miles northwest of Boone. Virginia lawmakers approved the elections this year as a way of assisting five Virginia cities deemed to be economically challenged. (Richmond is expected to hold a vote next year.)  If approved, the five casinos could create about 7,600 jobs and bring in nearly $1 billion in total annual revenues, according to state projections. The annual revenue for the state would range from $262 million to $367 million, depending on their popularity. Gambling kingpins Caesars and Hard Rock International are among the companies focused on the Virginia expansion.  In North Carolina, the Catawba Indian National plans to open a $273 million resort in Cleveland County next year.""

[KJHburg]

Well a casino is coming to Danville a VA city on the state line north of Greensboro about 1.5 hour drive from Charlotte or so.  It is one of the distressed cities VA is allowing casinos in.  From Business NC   So basically VA is going to allow multiple casinos along our stateline. 

We're dealing, over the state line

Danville, Va., voters overwhelmingly favored a referendum to turn a former mill into a casino resort less than 50 miles north of Greensboro and Burlington. Caesars Entertainment plans to pay $5 million for the site and $15 million to the city of Danville for rights to open the casino. The resort is expected to open in 2023 and include a 300-room hotel, 35,000-square-foot conference center and lots of slots and other games. 

Caesars estimates that project will deliver more than $38 million in annual state and local tax revenue by its third year in operation. Opponents say the casino will spark higher crime and strain social services as gambling addiction accelerates.

[KJHburg]

Well the Lumbee recognition act passed the House now up to the Senate.  I would say it would pass and look out NC there could be a massive casino to the east right on I-95.

https://www.citizen-times.com/story/news/local/2020/11/17/u-s-house-approves-federal-recognition-lumbee-indian-tribe-trump-biden-congress-senate/6323795002/

[rancenc]

Well it seems that at this time, there is not going to be any casinos opening up in Robeson County anytime soon!

https://www.wmbfnews.com/2020/12/21/nc-lumbee-tribe-says-federal-recognition-out-reach/

[rancenc]

Residential development could be on the horizon!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article248168485.html

[Windsurfer]

3 hours ago, rancenc said:

Residential development could be on the horizon!

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/local/article248168485.html

Just keep cheering that crap on.  

[JacksonH]

4 hours ago, Windsurfer said:

Just keep cheering that crap on.  

Sprawl.  Charlotte area racing to be another suburban hell like Atlanta and Dallas.