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Drinking Beer in Charlotte


ah59396

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So it appears that the NCGA landed somewhere between fixing the distribution problem and just kicking the can down the road. It sounds like craft brewers can now self-distribute 2x the current amount (the limit has been increased from 25,000 to (up to) 50,000 barrels per year).

While this is good news in the short term, NoDa and OMB were hoping for a number around 200,000 barrels per year. So, if the big craft guys keep growing this is only a temporary solution. However, it appears that big craft brewers (like Stone) have hit a ceiling. Regardless of the future size of the industry, I just  don't see what value is added by requiring distributors to be used -- they are just parasites when brewers are willing to pay for their own distribution team.

The Observer article gets a bit hinky at the end, I have no idea what the last paragraph means:

Quote

Breweries would not lose that authorization if they exceeded 50,000 barrels. However, this new authorization would be limited only to those breweries that sell less than 100,000 barrels of beer per year.

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/politics-government/article227628834.html

For comparison purposes:

Foothills produces 51,000 barrels (with capacity for 72,000)

Stone: 325,000 barrels

Bells: 420,000 barrels

New Belgium: almost 1 million barrels

 

Edited by kermit
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8 hours ago, kermit said:

 

The Observer article gets a bit hinky at the end, I have no idea what the last paragraph means:

 

The problem is terminology.  The current language in the law only deals with PRODUCTION.  Once a brewery PRODUCES over 25,000 bbl, they must sign with a distributor.

The article says the new law would allow them to DISTRIBUTE 50,000 bbl.  But lose that ability if they SELL over 100,000 bbl.

It's either bad law-making (likely), or bad reporting (also likely).  Taking a law that involves one metric (production), and making it involve 2 or 3 (distribution and sales, and maybe still production), is stupid (well, maybe, hell I don't know).  Need to see the real language of the bill to know the true story.

 

 

 

Edited by grodney
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23 minutes ago, grodney said:

The problem is terminology.  The current language in the law only deals with PRODUCTION.  Once a brewery PRODUCES over 25,000 bbl, they must sign with a distributor.

The article says the new law would allow them to DISTRIBUTE 50,000 bbl.  But lose that ability if they SELL over 100,000 bbl.

It's either bad law-making (likely), or bad reporting (also likely).  Taking a law that involves one metric (production), and making it involve 2 or 3 (distribution and sales, and maybe still production), is stupid (well, maybe, hell I don't know).  Need to see the real language of the bill to know the true story.

If your interpretation is correct, I think it would be a good compromise.  If they can self distribute 50k barrels and use a distributor for up to another 50k barrels, its a win win. 

There is little chance anyone could self distribute > 50k barrels locally.  I have a hard time seeing how they can self distribute even that much unless they do something like Olde Meck was going to do and invest in a cold storage facility and distribute to the triad/triangle through that.   I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Olde Meck dust off those triad warehouse plans and share the space with Noda, creating their own little beer distribution hub. 

If / when they ever hit the 50k mark, it has spread waaay past the Charlotte Metro and would need a distributor anyways, but could still locally distribute their local 50k. 

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1 hour ago, InSouthPark said:

If / when they ever hit the 50k mark, it has spread waaay past the Charlotte Metro and would need a distributor anyways, but could still locally distribute their local 50k. 

Yeah, with the current law, as soon as they hit 25001, they can't self-dist ANY of it.  This compromise would apparently (probably?) give them the option to self-dist up to 50K and use a distributor for another 50K, as you note. 

Though the article doesn't reference specifically being able to do both.....but that's about all that makes sense given the rest of the article.  It's possible, I suppose, that the new law is written such that they can self-dist up to 50K as long as they don't sell more than 100K; but if they choose to sign with a distributor, then they can no longer self-distribute.  That wouldn't be nearly as good.

Not really my interpretation, by the way, just the words used in the article.

 

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^^ News and Observer article laid it out more clearly.  They can self-distribute "up to" 50k per year.  They don't lose any designation once they brew over 50k, only once they brew 100k, its distributor only.  So they can do 50k/50k up until they hit 100k then it is 0k/100k for distributor.  

At the very least it kicks the can way down the road as I can't see any growing even past 50k in the next 10 years.  Too much competition for shelf space.

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Southern Tier with 3 different Charlotte-branded cans at Harris Teeter.  I'll buy one, and only one......because they're not really a Charlotte Brewery in my book, and because they put Brew'd on a can for no apparent reason.  Twice.

 

cltcan.thumb.jpg.89652fffa74597d7e178e0e8d763c4ad.jpg

Edited by grodney
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On 1/8/2019 at 8:57 AM, grodney said:

Armored Cow in University (8821 JW Clay Blvd. not far from JW Clay stop on the BLE) being quoted as a March 15 opening: https://www.charlotteagenda.com/153307/armored-cow-brewery-beer-in-charlotte/

Yeah so March 15 didn't happen.  They're saying April now.

In similar news, Middle James in Pineville isn't open yet.  They showed drywall is up, and they'll be hiring soon.

 

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Wooden Robot is releasing a farmhouse collaboration with Burial tomorrow.   You can pre-order online (I'm guessing there is a link on their Facebook page).

I swore off Wooden Robot bottle releases for a while because I thought they got way too expensive.  But I love Burial and I love farmhouse ales, so I caved on this one.  Bottles are $12, limit 6 bottles/person.

Wooden Robot has already gotten some national exposure winning a gold at the GABF this past year, but Burial has become the NC brewery that I always hear about when visiting out of state.  This collaboration is exciting for NC beer nerds.

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On 3/22/2019 at 12:12 PM, CTiger said:

Wooden Robot is releasing a farmhouse collaboration with Burial tomorrow.   You can pre-order online (I'm guessing there is a link on their Facebook page).

I swore off Wooden Robot bottle releases for a while because I thought they got way too expensive.  But I love Burial and I love farmhouse ales, so I caved on this one.  Bottles are $12, limit 6 bottles/person.

 Wooden Robot has already gotten some national exposure winning a gold at the GABF this past year, but Burial has become the NC brewery that I always hear about when visiting out of state.  This collaboration is exciting for NC beer nerds.

Many of these recent Wooden Robot releases seemed to not sell out in response to this. 

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As an avid homebrewer, OMB's beer is pretty inspiring.  They make some of the most consistent product out there that is true to their style and objective.  Too many breweries try too hard with some out there concoctions or they just dump a ton of hops, which IMO covers bad mashing or just bad water chemistry.  Most people (not pointing fingers in this forum) that state they don't like OMB's beer, simply do not like German-style beer or good lagered beer.

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3 hours ago, wilmore said:

Many of these recent Wooden Robot releases seemed to not sell out in response to this. 

Wooden Robot used to be my favorite place.  Not sure where it turned the corner for me.  Maybe it was a combination of things over the past year and a half.  Nowhere to park.  WAY too crowded.  Rude staff half of the time.  And Good Morning Viet Nam does not taste the same as when they first opened.  It kinda bums me out, b/c I REALLY liked it at first.  I'll just break out here that Thirsty Nomad is my new favorite tucked away brewery that is decent with their beers.  It is definitely in an awkward place, but at times, I appreciate that.

While I'm on a roll here, I wanted to attend the UnTappd event at BofA Stadium next month, but the thought of being around (potentially) 40,000 people and paying $60 to get in the door was completely off-putting.  I'd be interested in hearing what others think.  I like the app and use it all the time, but not sure about this event.

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16 hours ago, JRNYP2C said:

Wooden Robot used to be my favorite place.  Not sure where it turned the corner for me.  Maybe it was a combination of things over the past year and a half.  Nowhere to park.  WAY too crowded.  Rude staff half of the time.  And Good Morning Viet Nam does not taste the same as when they first opened.  It kinda bums me out, b/c I REALLY liked it at first.  I'll just break out here that Thirsty Nomad is my new favorite tucked away brewery that is decent with their beers.  It is definitely in an awkward place, but at times, I appreciate that.

While I'm on a roll here, I wanted to attend the UnTappd event at BofA Stadium next month, but the thought of being around (potentially) 40,000 people and paying $60 to get in the door was completely off-putting.  I'd be interested in hearing what others think.  I like the app and use it all the time, but not sure about this event.

Don't get too attached to Thirsty Nomad. It is for sale. 

https://craftbreweryforsale.com/charlotte-area-microbrewery/

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20 hours ago, Sigma said:

As an avid homebrewer, OMB's beer is pretty inspiring.  They make some of the most consistent product out there that is true to their style and objective.  Too many breweries try too hard with some out there concoctions or they just dump a ton of hops, which IMO covers bad mashing or just bad water chemistry.  Most people (not pointing fingers in this forum) that state they don't like OMB's beer, simply do not like German-style beer or good lagered beer.

Homebrewers unite!  Out of curiousity, where do you source your equipment/ingredients?  I've been going to Alternative Beverage out by Scaleybark but wanted to know if there are any other options around here.

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3 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Homebrewers unite!  Out of curiousity, where do you source your equipment/ingredients?  I've been going to Alternative Beverage out by Scaleybark but wanted to know if there are any other options around here.

That's about it if you want local.  Their location in Belmont is bigger but out of the way.   I have many times found cheaper prices at Austin Homebrew /Northern Brewer/Midwest even with shipping.  I do all grain so its usually 12lbs to ship but often then have flat rate  shipping and I don't have to go in and hunt for what I want.  You can even find quite a bit on Amazon (usually not prime) as well.  90% of my equipment I purchased on Amazon.   

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How do we know that brewery for sale is Thirsty Nomad?  Am I missing something in the listing?

 

And whoa, Three Spirits listing on the same site is 350K instead of the 650K listed in the CBJ!

CBJ: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/03/01/charlotte-brewery-up-for-sale-three-years-after-it.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2019-03-01&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1551472385&j=86982731

Craft Brewery For Sale: https://craftbreweryforsale.com/three-spirits-brewery-charlotte-nc/

 

Edited by grodney
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2 hours ago, grodney said:

How do we know that brewery for sale is Thirsty Nomad?  Am I missing something in the listing?

 

And whoa, Three Spirits listing on the same site is 350K instead of the 650K listed in the CBJ!

CBJ: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/03/01/charlotte-brewery-up-for-sale-three-years-after-it.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2019-03-01&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1551472385&j=86982731

Craft Brewery For Sale: https://craftbreweryforsale.com/three-spirits-brewery-charlotte-nc/

 

Well, who else could it be? The "thriving Brewery district" makes me think they are claiming to be in OMB land. The $100k price point is too low for any actual production brewery. It seems like a reasonable price for Thirsty Nomad's cobbled together Frankenstein set-up. 

Edited by NeverSummer
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30 minutes ago, NeverSummer said:

Well, who else could it be? The "thriving Brewery district" makes me think they are claiming to be in OMB land. The $100k price point is too low for any actual production brewery. It seems like a reasonable price for Thirsty Nomad's cobbled together Frankenstein set-up. 

Well it could be Free Range, which is much more of a Thriving Brewery District.....with a 3.5 barrel system....but way too cheap for them, right?  Or Salud, who seem perfectly capable of calling their 1-barrel system a "micro-brewery" even though that makes no real sense.   Hell, it could be Dukbone or some other dumbass in his garage.....who knows.  So yeah, I agree it's Thirsty Nomad, I just wondered what confirmed it.....as I said, thought maybe I missed something.

 

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11 minutes ago, grodney said:

Well it could be Free Range, which is much more of a Thriving Brewery District.....with a 3.5 barrel system....but way too cheap for them, right?  Or Salud, who seem perfectly capable of calling their 1-barrel system a "micro-brewery" even though that makes no real sense.   Hell, it could be Dukbone or some other dumbass in his garage.....who knows.  So yeah, I agree it's Thirsty Nomad, I just wondered what confirmed it.....as I said, thought maybe I missed something.

 

Oh, gotcha. You didn't miss anything. I just don't think it can be anyone else. Pilot maybe? Their setup is equally small, I believe. 

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23 hours ago, CTiger said:

Homebrewers unite!  Out of curiousity, where do you source your equipment/ingredients?  I've been going to Alternative Beverage out by Scaleybark but wanted to know if there are any other options around here.

Just as InSouthPark stated, Alternative is about the only one in the area (including their multiple locations).  I've never been to the location in Belmont, will have to check it out sometime.  I buy my ingredients from Alternative most times. I have bought ingredients and supplies/equipment from other sources such as Northern Brewer, Home Brew Supply, and yes Amazon.  I try to use Alternative as much as possible though, even at times, they may be slightly more expensive, I just prefer to use the local guy. Plus I enjoy going to the store and preparing my grains and hops myself, I find that to be part of the fun. 

What types of beers do y'all do? I tend to focus more on Belgian, but I also enjoy experimenting and branching out.

Cheers!

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12 minutes ago, Sigma said:

I buy my ingredients from Alternative most times. I have bought ingredients and supplies/equipment from other sources such as Northern Brewer, Home Brew Supply, and yes Amazon.  I try to use Alternative as much as possible though, even at times, they may be slightly more expensive, I just prefer to use the local guy. Plus I enjoy going to the store and preparing my grains and hops myself, I find that to be part of the fun. 

What types of beers do y'all do? I tend to focus more on Belgian, but I also enjoy experimenting and branching out.

Yup, I like going to Alternative Beverage and milling my own grain, measuring out hops, etc.  I've had some concerns over hop and yeast freshness there though and thought about checking elsewhere if there were any other spots.  

I currently live in a small apartment, so I only have a 1 gallon BIAB setup.  I brew a bit of everything at the moment.  I just finished drinking the last of a porter that turned out nicely.  Nothing in the fermenter at the moment  :tw_dizzy:

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30 minutes ago, CTiger said:

Yup, I like going to Alternative Beverage and milling my own grain, measuring out hops, etc.  I've had some concerns over hop and yeast freshness there though and thought about checking elsewhere if there were any other spots.  

I currently live in a small apartment, so I only have a 1 gallon BIAB setup.  I brew a bit of everything at the moment.  I just finished drinking the last of a porter that turned out nicely.  Nothing in the fermenter at the moment  :tw_dizzy:

I understand your concern about hop and yeast freshness, I wonder how effective their hop system is at times at retaining flavor.  I always check the dates on my yeast packets prior to purchase.  Dry yeast will have a much longer shelf life and is less likely to go bad, however I find liquid yeast superior. 

I also do BIAB, love porters, made three porters/stouts through the fall and winter.

I recently started kegging my beer, been bottling wayyy too long...  I have a keg of NEIPA (first IPA I've done in 1.5 years, I'm no hophead...) in my recently completed Keezer, got 5.5 gallons pecan brown ale fermenting right now but will rack to keg Saturday, and plan to brew a Saison Saturday.  

 

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On 3/27/2019 at 12:33 PM, grodney said:

How do we know that brewery for sale is Thirsty Nomad?  Am I missing something in the listing?

 

And whoa, Three Spirits listing on the same site is 350K instead of the 650K listed in the CBJ!

CBJ: https://www.bizjournals.com/charlotte/news/2019/03/01/charlotte-brewery-up-for-sale-three-years-after-it.html?ana=e_ae_set1&s=article_du&ed=2019-03-01&u=oAaDx%2B74FoP4qOJ%2By4AU6dhJPpc&t=1551472385&j=86982731

Craft Brewery For Sale: https://craftbreweryforsale.com/three-spirits-brewery-charlotte-nc/

 

I agree @grodney, getting to know the owner, I'm not getting the current impression that he is wanting to sell.  He's looking to add more to the beer list and menu.  There are people there during the day (especially on the weekend), but at night, it kind of slows down.  It made me nervous to see the posting on the sale page, but it was vague.  And with as many breweries as we have, it could be almost anyone these days.  Start up capital can be burned through pretty quickly, and if you don't hit the gate running, it can be a difficult hole to climb out of.  But I appreciate the website @NeverSummer.  That is an interesting site!

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Salud has been brewing at OG Heist for a year now so it isn’t them. 

https://www.charlottefive.com/new-heist-facility/

Pilot would had to have a terrible business plan if they fold this quick.  

No way Free Range would be 100k...I would drain my own accounts at that price.  It’s a smaller brew house but it’s not some Frankenstein system like Thirsty Nomad.  

I would bet a good beer that it’s Nomad. I mean the guy is still kegging into home brew kegs. 

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