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The Voice of Reason

Pearl Trumbull Lewis St Block sale

35 posts in this topic

http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/news23386.html

The RFP is out for 101-111 pearl. they are including both vacant buildings with the fairly new and 99% occupied Trumbull on the park, and the 606 space parking garage.

Panagore said he estimates that site could house up to 225 new residential units.

Developers have until May 2 to put in their bids for the properties.

the two vacant buildings total 175,000 square feet. asbestos remediation could cost 2 million they say.

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This is good news, I'm glad the city is focusing on adding residential. There has been quite a bit happening in the last few months regarding residential projects, it seems like the ball is starting to roll now.

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Downtown Hartford honestly feels close to a tipping point. Every residential building from the 2000s is close to full occupancy, indicating sufficient demand, and every major proposal on the board will yield a 10-15% increase to the current residential population. Each proposal is doable as there is likely a lower cost with conversion versus new construction. And each success will make it easier for the subsequent development by demonstrating viability.

The Pearl Street buildings are unique in that they would enliven one of Dowtown's only completely intact blocks (minus that garage).

Edited by Chessplayer

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Panagore said he estimates that site could house up to 225 new residential units.

Developers have until May 2 to put in their bids for the properties.

I'd love to see all those packets today :)

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Hey, I found the RFP

http://www.chfa.org/content/Lists/Press%20Releases/Attachments/361/Hartford%20Properties%20RFP%20and%20Sealed%20Bid%20Instructions.pdf

In there it notes that

111 Pearl is allocated 130 parking spaces in the garage

and 95-101 is allocated 180 spaces.

I am sure these numbers can be lowered for residential uses. regardless, there is plenty of parking there!

so much so that this garage will always be able to supply its tenants, both residential and retail as well as support downtown events at the XL Center

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Hey, I found the RFP

http://www.chfa.org/...nstructions.pdf

In there it notes that

111 Pearl is allocated 130 parking spaces in the garage

and 95-101 is allocated 180 spaces.

I am sure these numbers can be lowered for residential uses. regardless, there is plenty of parking there!

so much so that this garage will always be able to supply its tenants, both residential and retail as well as support downtown events at the XL Center

Having that parking garage there is huge. This really is an attractive and unique development opportunity. I'd be surprised if it doesn't bear fruit this time around. Having one residential building already filled to 99% capacity has to be a huge selling point.

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Yeah, the Apartment surely is profitable, but the Garage has to be profitable too! and if you fix up the 2 buildings the garage revenues will only increase.

I heard they didnt recieve too many responses to the RFP. not sure what that means.

If they just got 1 it would suck! but anything more than 5 is gravy if you ask me. As long as its competitive and the bidders are professionals with knowhow and financing in place!

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I dont have any issue with the guy, but his ideas or assumptions in this article kinda suck. :)

First, If the state sells them as indicated to a private buyer, they are not only gaining immediate income from the sale, but these buildings would also immediately rejoin tax rolls helping the city and state.

Even if the buildings stay vacant, taxes will be paid....

Also the assumption made about the development into housing being too daunting is also nuts...

The last RFP came at a BAD TIME! no one was going to dump money into "the pearl". not to mention this was in Eddie Perez Hartford, so who knows what he and Abe were asking for?

The earlier RFP that led to discussions about Martin Kenny and the 111 Pearl building on the corner I know less about. But a hotel was his plan at the time, and I dont have a problem with that not happening because he was involved in the Trumbull on the park project which surely was more important and was opened in what? 2006? So maybe the next thing would have been 111 Pearl, but the market was not right. at least he got half of the block up and running!

as far as his plan....???!!??

Woah...

you want to build a new office building in this economic environment? While I wouldnt mind seeing a new building and all that yad aya da, I dont want my state to pay for demolition. (say $5 million including asbestos removal) then build a new office tower that was new construction costs per SF in "comperable citues" vary from 190 in Boston to 150 in Baltimore. So building a 200,000 SF building would cost 30-38 Million. For less monty the state could buy CT River plaza and get a class A office 3 times the size!!! Also 200K sf is only slightly l;arger than the 175,000 SF that those buildings currently comprise of, so the more realisitc scale would be 300-500K SF bringing costs closer to 80 Million. and a building of this size would need considerably more parking than is currently available in the attached garage. This would further put pressure on this corner for parking making it harder for Cityplace to attract tenants etc...

We all know of and agree with the housing sentiment around the park, but building a new office building is wasteful. The State has however allready said they want to buy and move into buildings larger than 100K SF. I think they are close to deciding which ones even... so why build new?

As I pointed out elsewhere the State can snag much of Constitutio Plaza as well as CT river plaza for less than $40 million I am sure. This will free up the park front offices for redevelopment as posted in that same thread, and in addition, the state and the development agency would be able to bring residential top a key downtown intersection as well as the park front while filling vacant office buildings and further re-energizing the plaza....

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Condon's idea makes no sense for the reason VOR noted above. Who needs to build a new building wth the vacancy rate so high?

And turning the Pearl Street duo into housing also helps build the Trumbull Street corridor into a true 24 hour neighborhood. Would 200 more units be enough to keep a high end grocer open. Don't know. But if tthat corner and the Clarion Hotel renovation happen, its getting close.

Edited by beerbeer

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well if the plaza, 200 at this block and the 286 at 777 main...

Hmm, I think I deleted what I was writing by accident :)

I think in order to maintain some kind of high end market, downtown needs alot more than 200 units here and 199 at the Clarion. add in the 286 at 777 Main and we are getting closer. But really, I think the best bet will be if all of the proposed buildings happen because downtown is not really high end as of yet. Its YOUNG, and young professions still eat Ramen noodles some nights. they are happy with Pizza Burgers and generally eating out.

I think that as we continue to grow our young population through the built environment and the proposed buildings, the higher end 30 somethings will eventually turn into a sizable buying force, but its a ways off.

The most likely thing we will see is one of the little markets will expand or a small market will open that provides more of what is needed.

Maybe a place that has a decent produce selection as well as some stables to go with a deli counter for day time business.

basically Rose Gormet but twice the size to include produce and maybe gormet cheeses?

We can not assume that the city can jump to having a whole foods downtown without first having a few neighborhood grocers.

Come to think of it, if each of the new proposals only includes a few 2 bedrooms as they pretty much all do, its those people that more support a grocer than the studios.

So I think Front Street, AI Tech center and the Bushnell area condo proposal are the ones most likely to support a grocer since they would be a later batch and would be new construction and attract higher rents I assume. Especially the condo if it happens.

The Plaza apartments for example indicated 13 two bedrooms, but that is when the plan was for 193 apartments. they were approved for 199, so its possible they split 6 of them in half. meaning only 7 two bedrooms are part of the plan. The first wave of apartments in downtown included quite a bit more two tedrooms and large 1 bedrooms that might have appealed to the more successful 30 somethings

back on subject.....

I am still dying to hear what was proposed here! I know I will be disapointed, just like I was when the city chose that guy that wanted to build just 36 units in 101 Pearl instead of Kenney who wanted to build 120 units. I can not imagine many 2 bedrooms here, I think this is a volume proposition if anything. maybe a handful at best.

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http://www.hartfordbusiness.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20121020/PRINTEDITION/310199978/1002

In the article about 3 constitution plaza, there was some info on this RFP.

Meanwhile, officials from CHFA are still weighing options for redevelopment proposals of the eye sore office buildings at 101-111 Pearl St. CHFA, which along with the city of Hartford, owns those buildings put out an RFP last summer looking for developers interested in redeveloping the properties and also buying the Trumbull on the Park apartment complex.

Sources familiar with the situation say CHFA has narrowed its list to two development companies including Boston-based Trinity Financial.

The other group being considered is a consortium of local investors including Martin Kenny, whose company owns a minority stake in Trumbull on the Park; Sandy Cloud, who owns the Hartford-based real estate firm the The Cloud Co.; and parking tycoon Alan Lazowski.

Down to 2 groups.. 1 local, one out of town.

The local one is interesting because Martin Kenny is one of the sellers, so its nice that he is still in the running. IIRC in the past he wanted many smaller units in 101 pearl when that bidding process happened. Alan Lazowski is probably just after the parking garage, but interesting if he is getting into property development. His company is massive and he should have pretty deep pockets. Sandy Cloud is a real estate light weight but a political heavyweight. based on his companies web site they have only been involved with a couple projects. but I suspect Martin Kenny brings the development knowledge. Cloud, however has been on every board of directors you can think of and was successful in corporate roles at Aetna and Robinson Cole and as an elected official.

I am thinking the local group would have an inside tack since they bring realestate/development knowledge, parking accumen, and political influence. They also know the city and property very well. Kenny already owning some of it and Cloud has his office at 30 Lewis Street.

Out of Boston seems like a pretty big player in Boston, but most projects have some low income component.

while it seems most of our proposals have low income lately, I don't want downtown to get a reputation for low income living. I Hope this project does not add to it. They seem like a company with the resources to get moving right away with over 900M in projects completed to date. and I would love to see more NYC and Boston Developers doing jobs in Hartford.

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Residential on this corner is the key to kicking Trumbull Street into high gear.

I have no problem with including some low income units to this project. It is next to three market rate properties on Trumbull. The street itself is upscale. If the low income units get the project tax credits and moves it forward, that is far more important.

Breathing life into that corner is critical. Trumbull can become the heart beat of Hartford. The corner of Main and Pratt is problematic because of the big empty parking lot. There is great stuff there but that huge hole makes it look less active than it really is. Filling Trumbull would go a long way to have a fully functional 24-hour neighborhood at the center of the city. It would change perceptions of the place and establish the Trumbull as a place to be.

Edited by beerbeer

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This really is and had been a key piece of the puzzle.

With ~200 people living here and the retail area even partially occupied (although I believe it will do quite well, especially the corner as a restaurant/bar) you are right... Trumbull Street will be much more vibrant. I am thinking the residents of 777 Main are close enough that they will add to that heartbeat too.

So, I guess, I see 777 Main and 101-111 Pearl as the Left and Right ventrical. They occupy corners on opposite ends of the central block in Downtown. Thet are both dead and have been for a long while (even when 777 Main had BOA it was unfriendly to the pesedtrian and lacked life, true life as a building next to 1 financial plaza.

With these 2 buildings being converted, there is the very realistic possibility of Pearl Street coming alive, Trumbull Street strengthening and even Asylum getting better and Lewis picking up.

Thats how key these buildings are.

The current downtown is stunted by dead spots, many of them corners. Walking from one live area to another is always a little dark. If these deadspots were to start living the visual affect and the change in feel would be dramatic.

and since people seem affected by social gravity, I think the residents from 3 CPlaza, 5CPlaza and Front Street II, will more often than not congregate in the area between Club 960 and Vitos. So there will be plenty of opportunity on Pearl, Asylum and Pratt between Main and Trumbull.

Until it is fixed, our Heartbeat will always have a disease along Main Street between Asylum and Pratt.

We are at least "close" to fixing the rest of the area.

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Can someone explain this:

"Hartford Mayor Pedro Segarra said the planned development is an approximately$40 million project that will lead to the construction of two new buildings housing about 91 apartments and 24,500 square feet of retail and entertainment space."

Where are the two new buildings going? Are they demolishing the two existing buildings?

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Can someone explain this:

"Hartford Mayor Pedro Segarra said the planned development is an approximately$40 million project that will lead to the construction of two new buildings housing about 91 apartments and 24,500 square feet of retail and entertainment space."

Where are the two new buildings going? Are they demolishing the two existing buildings?

I honestly assume it is a slight misstatement by the mayor. The developers clearly said they plan to use the existing structures but they will get a significant remediation and facelift. I'm very excited that this project seems to be gaining some steam. This block is really dead right now but is positioned well to be very lively once they get some housing and retail in there.

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My big concern in the article is that it is heavily quoted by Sandy Cloud, and he mentions point blank that they will seek every form of funding city state federal etc...

This only concerns me because it means that it might be a while before they get started, and that they do NOT have funding in place.

these RFP keep stalling because they take so long and I DO NOT WANT to be posting in this thread 2 years from now about how this was doomed by poor timing...

Also, they have now brought in a Phillidelphia firm to somehow to assist in the project.... 3 developers and a parking tycoon? interesting is all, interesting.

lastly they mention 91 apartments and 24,500 SF of retail/entertainment space.

These two buildings represent 170,000 SF so that means these 91 apartments will be LARGE

nowhere did I read studios and 1 bedrooms.

larger apartments are the next step in Hartfords evolution. The more couples living downtown the better. Maybe some day in the next few years you will see a downtown nursery school or daycare pop up serving these young couples.

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Thank you Hartford Courant for finally getting this info out there and making some sense of it...

http://www.courant.com/business/connecticut/hc-hartford-pearl-street-1101-20121031,0,4045810.story

Mayor Pedro Segarra said Wednesday that while negotiations were still ongoing, the project could include as many as 91 new apartments and 15,000 square feet of service, entertainment and retail space at 95-101 Pearl St. and 121 units and 9,500 square feet of retail space at 111 Pearl St.

So we have 24,500 SF of retail space as before, but 91 apartments is just for 95-101 Pearl on the corner, and 121 units for 111 Pearl bringing the total to 212 Apartments and 24,500SF retail.

MUCH BETTER

I am still a little concerned about timing and funding, but hopefully things will work out.

Glad to see that this is more likely to be 212 Apartments rather than 91 apartments.

an interesting observation....

They say 91 apartments for 101 Pearl, but 121 UNITS for 111 pearl. I wonder if there will be some condos in there?

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I'm pretty sure there will be no owner occcupied housing if they are seeking government funding. It's why they have to include apartments for low and moderate incomes as well.

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Not neccessarily... Government funding supports ownership units all the time. in fact the townhomes just built over by capewell and large portions of the former housing project over there have been converted to owner occupied housing.

What makes these programs great is that the origonal buyer needs to be of a certain income at the time and if they get a raise a promotion or whatever, they can improve the property sell it, whatever.

There was some affordable housing built in the town I grew up in something like 15 years ago. one of the recipients was a single dad whose son had cancer and he had a daughter as well. he was a worthy recipient. however his hard work earned him more income over time and he eventually started his own construction company. over the years he remarried had more kids and added to the house like any homeowner would. that house is easily worth over 500K now. and he is firmly in the middle class. homeownership helped with that and of course so did his hard work. but this kind of houseing exists in hartford now, and I think it can succeed if well managed in condo style development.

Think of it this way...

for 777 Main, they got something like 17 Million as a grant. and they have 286 Units planned. thats 60,000 per unit. If you built modest ownership units and took 60K off the price of each one I think they would be pretty affordable and ultimately add more to the fabric of downtown.

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http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-estate/construction-on-front-street-apartments-expected-in-early-fall/

from this article on front street, we have this blurb about Pearl

 

Plans for converting the building at 111 Pearl St. into housing are still evolving, but developer Martin Kenny hopes to add a penthouse level. The conversion, paired with one next door at 101 Pearl, now envisions 81 apartments and 10,000 square feet of retail space, including the space once occupied by Sean Patrick’s bar, Kenny said.

 

Adding a penthouse implied building another level on top.  111 is the corner building so I think using its rooftop is completely appropriate.  That would be a sweet pad!

high above but not too high.

no great views, except all of Asylum and all of trumbull, with a sliver of the park from the right angle.

 

 

81 apartments is more than the 66 I read in the plan from the city

but it does imply that 66 will be in the upper floors of 101, and 111 will have another 15?  including the penthouse.

not sure what thats all about mut it would be a shame not to get a few more units in these buildings.  of if the numbers stay that low, I hope they are larger units and high end... essentially... I hope and pray that they are not office space.

thats just dumb

 

10KSF of retail seems low for those 2 building combined right?

where was Sean Patricks bar?

is this that strange space facing Trumbull seemingly below the Pearl street facing retail?

 

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http://courantblogs.com/ct-real-estate/construction-on-front-street-apartments-expected-in-early-fall/

from this article on front street, we have this blurb about Pearl

 

Plans for converting the building at 111 Pearl St. into housing are still evolving, but developer Martin Kenny hopes to add a penthouse level. The conversion, paired with one next door at 101 Pearl, now envisions 81 apartments and 10,000 square feet of retail space, including the space once occupied by Sean Patrick’s bar, Kenny said.

 

Adding a penthouse implied building another level on top.  111 is the corner building so I think using its rooftop is completely appropriate.  That would be a sweet pad!

high above but not too high.

no great views, except all of Asylum and all of trumbull, with a sliver of the park from the right angle.

 

 

81 apartments is more than the 66 I read in the plan from the city

but it does imply that 66 will be in the upper floors of 101, and 111 will have another 15?  including the penthouse.

not sure what thats all about mut it would be a shame not to get a few more units in these buildings.  of if the numbers stay that low, I hope they are larger units and high end... essentially... I hope and pray that they are not office space.

thats just dumb

 

10KSF of retail seems low for those 2 building combined right?

where was Sean Patricks bar?

is this that strange space facing Trumbull seemingly below the Pearl street facing retail?

That's exactly where it was. There were stairs immediately inside the door that led to the bar space that was below grade on Trumbull.

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You could sit at the bar in Sean Patrick's and watch the feet of Trumbull street walk by. A very unique space. Always liked that place.

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