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joeDowntown

Studio Park - $140 Million Celebration Cinema/mixed use project

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2 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

The alley/pedestrian way that runs from Fulton down to Studio Park: how about "Depot Alley." We were just all talking about the train depot that used to take up that entire area. 

Although some people might read that as "De Pot Alley" ie, cannabis central. :)

A great time to start a pot truck industry!

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14 hours ago, joeDowntown said:

I’ve always thought they should add more emphasis to the alley next to the arena. Maybe add brighter/nicer lighting, heat lamps, and aff 5-10 small rental “sheds” along the Arena side (like downtown market w/ shorter rental periods) with a mix of units w/ kitchens and retail. It would allow entrepreneurs to experiment a bit with changing venues and menus (a bit of an incubator). They could also have a few spots for good trucks or temporary custom builds (I could envision a brewery doing something more interesting and custom). 

Make it an all year venue with fire pits and warming sheds in the winter. And build nice, heated public restrooms (some of this could be attached to the arena?)  

It would also be great to see some of the Ionia street restaurants build off the back so both sides were active, with patios or decks.  I know the logistics would be tough as the dumpsters, etc. are out there, but we’ve put a man on the moon, we could figure it out. :)

Joe

 

It would be hard to pull off sheerly because all warmer months that alley reeks of dumpsters, on top of the homeless who use that alley as a public bathroom...

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6 hours ago, TheLonesomeHobo said:

It would be hard to pull off sheerly because all warmer months that alley reeks of dumpsters, on top of the homeless who use that alley as a public bathroom...

Speaking of homelessness: has there been any public discussion about homelessness and the Hilton/Studio Park and how it will be handled by Mel Trotter and/or the police?  Unfortunately, once you get to Cherry and below (i.e. right on top of the Hilton), the problem gets so acute that it is reminiscent of many part of San Francisco.   Is it going to be business as usual regarding the homeless problem and therefore they are going to let hundreds of out of towners wade through a  particularly dense area of panhandling/public-urination/etc.? 

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11 minutes ago, GRain said:

Speaking of homelessness: has there been any public discussion about homelessness and the Hilton/Studio Park and how it will be handled by Mel Trotter and/or the police?  Unfortunately, once you get to Cherry and below (i.e. right on top of the Hilton), the problem gets so acute that it is reminiscent of many part of San Francisco.   Is it going to be business as usual regarding the homeless problem and therefore they are going to let hundreds of out of towners wade through a  particularly dense area of panhandling/public-urination/etc.? 

Interesting timing. This special came out recently by KOMO News in Seattle and has everybody talking. Our ExperienceGR President even made a comment that he's heard places like Seattle, San Francisco and other big cities are losing convention business because convention goers don't feel safe.  

https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is-dying

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7 hours ago, TheLonesomeHobo said:

It would be hard to pull off sheerly because all warmer months that alley reeks of dumpsters, on top of the homeless who use that alley as a public bathroom...

Detroit seems to have figured this out. They have The Belt, the new alley at the Shinola Hotel, and even a trendy cocktail lounge that fronts the alley Eminem walks down at the end of 8 Mile.

The solution seems to be consolidating all of the dumpsters into one enclosed area and generating enough activity that the alley isn't a secluded place for the homeless anymore.

Plus the designers of Studio Park were clearly anticipating that alley being a focal point, so just leaving dumpsters there seems like a waste.

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13 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Interesting timing. This special came out recently by KOMO News in Seattle and has everybody talking. Our ExperienceGR President even made a comment that he's heard places like Seattle, San Francisco and other big cities are losing convention business because convention goers don't feel safe.  

https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is-dying

Wow, incredible link.  Thank you.  It is an eye opening report.

Interestingly, yesterday I saw an apparent homeless man expose himself and then urinate on a sidewalk with groups of people in from out of town for a concert at Van Andel.   I saw first hand the impression left with these out of towners.  The 20-somethings laughed, Those 30ish and up just seemed mad.  This was less a block from the Hilton.   I was told someone called 911.   Oblivious, the man just continued stumbling down Commerce.  I doubt he was caught, but who knows.   Of course I have seen worse around Cherry & Division (as we all have) and I mention this incident only because it happened yesterday.    So against this backdrop is this neighborhood really the hub of our new "entertainment district"?    But I admit that's not really a productive question.

A better question might be: Did Studio Park investors take as much financial risk as they have without some assurances from the City/Trotter/Degage for some sort of  revised approach to this problem to better protect their guests, residents and tenants?

 

   

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16 hours ago, GRain said:

The 20-somethings laughed, Those 30ish and up just seemed mad. 

I think you have the answer right there.  Is making some older people upset worth worrying about?  More importantly, are you|we|us really willing to spend lots and lots of money to make it stop happening?  The PTB's actual answer to this question is clear.
And it is not as if Downtown is struggling for want of visitors.

On 4/7/2019 at 8:43 AM, GRDadof3 said:

places like Seattle, San Francisco and other big cities are losing convention business because convention goers don't feel safe.

The answer is in here to:  this is the same as everywhere else.  This is America.
Where are they going to loose a substantive amount of convention business to?  Somewhere that is the same?  These conventions will not have much choice but to keep on moving to the next city, eventually it will be a circuit; there is not an infinite list of options.  Particularly if the convention is large.
Homelessness is as American as Apple Pie; if you do not want to encounter homeless people you need to avoid American cities, all of them [and thus not attend things like conventions].
I've witnessed this in every city I've gone to from San Diego, to DC, to Jacksonville (FL).
It does not make me feel unsafe; most people my age (mid-40s) and younger who have lived in cities - which is a huge slice of the affluent population conventions want - are so used to it, it is every day everywhere.  I know some of those Homeless People by name.
Yes, somebody will be upset, some official will dutifully make note of their concerns, file it in some database whose contents will be lost in the next upgrade, and nothing will change.

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23 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

Interesting timing. This special came out recently by KOMO News in Seattle and has everybody talking. Our ExperienceGR President even made a comment that he's heard places like Seattle, San Francisco and other big cities are losing convention business because convention goers don't feel safe.  

https://komonews.com/news/local/komo-news-special-seattle-is-dying

Fortunately we arent that bad in terms of sheer numbers, but we have all the same foolishness that is enabling similar results, just in an area far smaller and so far mostly outside of the main area that convention-goers will be walking around. So far it has only wreck a decade of effort cleaning up and S. Division, and hopefully it wont spread anywhere else.

It also isnt enough to tell people "oh well, that's just the city", and then become indignant when people just opt for the suburbs and watch as the central city just becomes a ghost town again. The jerks walking around intoxicated and engaging in urination in front of people is unacceptable regardless of if a person is homeless or not. We should never opt to just get used to it either because that is why Seattle, San Fransisco, and Portland are such a mess today, and they can still somewhat absorb the loss of visitors. A place like DT GR  cannot. That is why a serious crackdown is needed before we grow more and attract even more out of town homeless people with no connection to this town other than we have a robust system of non-profits that dont ask questions. The last thing we need is to start finding DT covered with human feces and discarded needles because we just dont want to offend anyone by getting control of this while it is still manageable.

 

I'm hoping Studio Park, and the businesses west of Division hire a good security team and to insist on more foot or bike patrols of the area. A lot of people are taking a lot of financial risk in building and renovating down there. And those places generate millions for the city and numerous jobs.

 

 

 

 

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7 hours ago, whitemice said:

The answer is in here to:  this is the same as everywhere else.  This is America.

21C1E723-786F-4EFA-A1BC-A36D7489B7AE.gif.e8cebe65f58774b5ef2dac3d1a461410.gif

Sorry, I had to...

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On 4/8/2019 at 7:43 AM, whitemice said:

I think you have the answer right there.  Is making some older people upset worth worrying about?  More importantly, are you|we|us really willing to spend lots and lots of money to make it stop happening?  The PTB's actual answer to this question is clear.
And it is not as if Downtown is struggling for want of visitors.

The answer is in here to:  this is the same as everywhere else.  This is America.
Where are they going to loose a substantive amount of convention business to?  Somewhere that is the same?  These conventions will not have much choice but to keep on moving to the next city, eventually it will be a circuit; there is not an infinite list of options.  Particularly if the convention is large.
Homelessness is as American as Apple Pie; if you do not want to encounter homeless people you need to avoid American cities, all of them [and thus not attend things like conventions].
I've witnessed this in every city I've gone to from San Diego, to DC, to Jacksonville (FL).
It does not make me feel unsafe; most people my age (mid-40s) and younger who have lived in cities - which is a huge slice of the affluent population conventions want - are so used to it, it is every day everywhere.  I know some of those Homeless People by name.
Yes, somebody will be upset, some official will dutifully make note of their concerns, file it in some database whose contents will be lost in the next upgrade, and nothing will change.

I disagree with this. I know plenty of people who live in cities who, while they tolerate homeless people, they certainly don't embrace it or accept it. I know some people think Grand Rapids is a big city but it's not really. :) Ask anyone who lives in the "urban areas" of Chicago how they feel about homeless people (you'll get an earful). 

There are plenty of places to hold conventions, especially smaller cities like Grand Rapids, where you aren't inundated with homeless people in the areas around the convention centers and the adjacent hotels. Rarely do you see homeless people around Devos Place or around the Amway Grand, JW or Courtyard by Marriott (maybe by design). I also rarely see homeless people around the Homewood Suites or the new Hyatt Place, and I certainly don't think you'll see very many up by the Embassy Suites. 

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Studio Park will have its own "security" just out and about keeping an eye on things, just like malls do. 

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I dunno, I agree that the homelessness is a problem and needs to be addressed.  I do think the vibrancy on Ionia dilutes the effect the panhandlers have.  Even without Studio Park there I've never felt the homeless population was omnipresent while going to Tavern or Peppinos.  This development will obviously add more vibrancy and I fully expect it to help drown out some of the side effects of the missions. 

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On 4/9/2019 at 8:39 AM, GRDadof3 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Studio Park will have its own "security" just out and about keeping an eye on things, just like malls do. 

Just how many times do I have to post my favorite South Park homeless clip? :) Security isn't the solution.  A big shiny bus to California is the solution.  "California... is nice to the homeless.  California... super cool to the homeleeeeess.  ... Lots of rich peopleeee... Giving change to the homeless..."  So much cheaper.  Such a better solution.  After decades of trying all the other solution, we really should at least try.. 

Seriously, though, Studio Park will present a possible problem:  Hundreds of people who don't know any better actually giving them money within walking distance of the shelters.   Why do people think every exit ramp has a random homeless (or at least fake homeless) guy standing sentry?  IT WORKS.   If people would stop buying the "I need food" line all of 300 feet from a soup kitchen, and keep their wallets closed, it would solve 90% of the "uncomfortableness" problem.  

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7 hours ago, x99 said:

Just how many times do I have to post my favorite South Park homeless clip? :) Security isn't the solution.  A big shiny bus to California is the solution.  "California... is nice to the homeless.  California... super cool to the homeleeeeess.  ... Lots of rich peopleeee... Giving change to the homeless..."  So much cheaper.  Such a better solution.  After decades of trying all the other solution, we really should at least try.. 

Seriously, though, Studio Park will present a possible problem:  Hundreds of people who don't know any better actually giving them money within walking distance of the shelters.   Why do people think every exit ramp has a random homeless (or at least fake homeless) guy standing sentry?  IT WORKS.   If people would stop buying the "I need food" line all of 300 feet from a soup kitchen, and keep their wallets closed, it would solve 90% of the "uncomfortableness" problem.  

Are you saying that homeless people are like pigeons? :)

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On 2/3/2019 at 12:17 PM, Floyd_Z said:

I think something like a Revel & Roll (Bowling/Arcade/Bar) would be great at this location.  There probably isn't enough space for that though.

I just said this to my wife. Or a Lucky Strike. Seems like a real complimentary draw to a movie theater..

 

 

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4 hours ago, twoshort said:

 

I just said this to my wife. Or a Lucky Strike. Seems like a real complimentary draw to a movie theater..

 

 

Does anyone know what address would be used for permit applications for tenant build-outs?  I'd like to keep any eye on that to hopefully catch wind of what F&B or retail will be going in.

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4 hours ago, twoshort said:

 

I just said this to my wife. Or a Lucky Strike. Seems like a real complimentary draw to a movie theater..

 

 

Downtown Denver has a newish multi-level shopping center that is about a half of a square block in size and holds a movie theater, a lucky strike and several shops you would find at a mall as well as several bars and restaraunts like coyote ugly!

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15 hours ago, GRain said:

Does anyone know what address would be used for permit applications for tenant build-outs?  I'd like to keep any eye on that to hopefully catch wind of what F&B or retail will be going in.

121 Ionia Ave SW

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If I'm bearish on the thought of getting a Lucky Strike/Punch Bowl Social/<Buzz Bowling Concept du jour> it's only because Loeks seems keen on doing all entertainment under the Celebration moniker. I can't help but think the Studio C Listening Room concept is tremendously half baked as it's poised to compete with Founders, Stache, and H.O.M.E. for both talent and attendees. I'm not sure how successful the latter two are outside of filling excess capacity on off-nights. I'm sure others will disagree, which is fine, but let us all celebrate one of the first major retail developments to not have a craft beer bar or brewery attached to it (yet). 

 

 

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17 hours ago, GRDadof3 said:

I think it's a bunch more addresses than that?

The city's permit map shows 122 Oakes, 120 Ottawa and 123 Ionia as well. 

https://grandrapids.buildingeye.com/building

 

I'm sure there will be, that is just the address they are advertising space under on the commercial real estate listings.

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8 hours ago, Pattmost20 said:

I'm sure there will be, that is just the address they are advertising space under on the commercial real estate listings.

Ah. got it.

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Malamiah mentions "moving to Studio Park" in their Facebook post. If so, another strategic loss for the Downtown Market. 

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