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westsider28

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Thanks por posting, Westsider! I look forward to reading that in detail. I'm sure there must be very exciting tid-bits that people will love!

Just what you posted alone is jaw dropping. Crime down 70 freaking percent plus highest ever test scores? Let's go, Spartanburg!

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Brace yourselves, because the townhomes going before the DRB next Tuesday are BAD.  Near the end of this agenda packet (DRB - Meeting Packet - 2022-09-06.pdf) are the comments of Craig Lewis (city consultant) on the projects.

Here's the Magnolia Townes (12 units):

896306520_MagTownesrender.thumb.jpg.b5adca722909261873ec48b0ae99de89.jpg

780216843_MagTownessite.jpg.9d07506f9462478c0158f6e8cc0d79a6.jpg

These are obviously quite ugly.  Craig Lewis mentions the ground floor windows right up to the sidewalk as undesirable, as well as no stoops/elevation of entrances. They also don't have the proper streetscape treatment on ANY of the streets (Magnolia should have wide sidewalks & parallel parking, Raindrop & Milan streetscapes should match the existing townhomes).  He recommends denial.

Here's Phase 2 of the Northside Townhomes (Montgomery Development):

1709939955_NSthP2siteplan.thumb.jpg.b6d34a5e46387e3b10ae1ba031971d4e.jpg

198153238_NSthP2Milanunits.thumb.jpg.34f07588a2643ae733d92f551ebdc8f7.jpg

1939410177_NSthP2Vernon-Ridgeunits.thumb.jpg.e200664f3099dcb66c30f170133dde49.jpg

2134874337_NSthP2interiorunits.thumb.jpg.f8773e72c3e03937f8bc1359c6924ae3.jpg

Craig Lewis (rightfully) eviscerates the whole proposal.  He has issues with the substandard streetscaping conditions, awkward interior streets, suburban building design, garage-fronted units, detention pond in the center, lack of stoops/elevated entries, and lack of tree saving/replacement.  Here are his comments again (near the end of doc): DRB - Meeting Packet - 2022-09-06.pdf  He obviously recommends denial.

Anyway, big yikes.  Hopefully both of these projects go back to the drawing board...

Edited by westsider28
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B953-A78-D-7-BF3-4-DD1-9128-02-E18-F9-C4

EA8-EB9-C1-6246-459-E-83-B4-6-C3-C5-A9-F

A3-AB191-E-9345-408-D-8735-F69-B1-D90-FD

FA23-FB38-8-CE6-4607-9569-1958439-BA4-A1

8-AD4-E1-D3-6135-4-D0-C-95-F4-BB63-B33-D

E6-AC92-FB-766-C-4158-9005-A11559665916.

B323-CCD3-F7-A8-436-F-8-CC5-577-BB3103-E


 

The second phase of Northside Townhomes construction is on track to begin in late 2022 if granted final approval by the city’s Design Review Board.

John Montgomery, Montgomery Development Group CEO, told The Post and Courier the $20 million project would include 83 townhome units, with 25 percent designated for affordable housing. The Design Review Board approved the project’s preliminary conceptual design on Sept. 6. Final conceptual design approval will be considered at the next Design Review Board meeting on Oct. 4, Montgomery said.
 

More info: 

https://www.postandcourier.com/spartanburg/business/spartanburg-northside-townhome-plan-with-affordable-units-gets-preliminary-ok/article_8c875f6c-306a-11ed-a728-276453c5aa13.html

Edited by gman430
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3 hours ago, gman430 said:

 

B323-CCD3-F7-A8-436-F-8-CC5-577-BB3103-E


 

The second phase of Northside Townhomes construction is on track to begin in late 2022 if granted final approval by the city’s Design Review Board.

John Montgomery, Montgomery Development Group CEO, told The Post and Courier the $20 million project would include 83 townhome units, with 25 percent designated for affordable housing. The Design Review Board approved the project’s preliminary conceptual design on Sept. 6. Final conceptual design approval will be considered at the next Design Review Board meeting on Oct. 4, Montgomery said.
 

More info: 

https://www.postandcourier.com/spartanburg/business/spartanburg-northside-townhome-plan-with-affordable-units-gets-preliminary-ok/article_8c875f6c-306a-11ed-a728-276453c5aa13.html

Fantastic photos @gman430

I'm VERY disappointed that the DRB granted preliminary approval for P2 against the recommendation of the City's consultant (see issues below):

785052093_nsthprobs.jpg.4ca8b8c749b7285119b30a9d1f7a4bfc.jpg

The plan includes closing a portion of a public street, with should almost NEVER be done in an urban context.  It reduces connectivity and access.  I don't know why they couldn't just replicate Phase 1 on the block between Weldon and Milan (see my idea below), since Google shows it's the same width as the P1 block (but the developer seems to think they can't do that).  I also don't know why so much driveway space is necessary in P2 (or P1, honestly).  Most urban townhomes in other cities are MUCH more tightly packed, which would allow them to easily fit 2 rows in one block.  Here's an example in Charlotte (compared to here):

1321757957_cltth4.jpg.caf8468db8eabc19ca1ff60fd15bea8e.jpg   1181385577_nsth.jpg.e2ef840f46cf1ea81d85b88db1e99d0d.jpg

Here's an alternate site plan I created that has the same number of units, while preserving public streets and preserving large existing trees and having more usable open space (vs their terrible plan):

1848662210_NSp2alt.thumb.jpg.0ba42871069dc36d48eaa09eb3682b9f.jpg   125466917_NSthP2siteplan(2).thumb.jpg.52c80d63216ee38774eeaac5fba9b80c.jpg

I'm so frustrated.  I feel like the good urban design that we've maintained the past several years is slipping away, as we fall back into lazy, suburban Sunbelt bad habits...

Edited by westsider28
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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...
On 8/30/2022 at 8:04 PM, westsider28 said:

Brace yourselves, because the townhomes going before the DRB next Tuesday are BAD.  Near the end of this agenda packet (DRB - Meeting Packet - 2022-09-06.pdf) are the comments of Craig Lewis (city consultant) on the projects.

Here's the Magnolia Townes (12 units):

896306520_MagTownesrender.thumb.jpg.b5adca722909261873ec48b0ae99de89.jpg

780216843_MagTownessite.jpg.9d07506f9462478c0158f6e8cc0d79a6.jpg

These are obviously quite ugly.  Craig Lewis mentions the ground floor windows right up to the sidewalk as undesirable, as well as no stoops/elevation of entrances. They also don't have the proper streetscape treatment on ANY of the streets (Magnolia should have wide sidewalks & parallel parking, Raindrop & Milan streetscapes should match the existing townhomes).  He recommends denial.

This goes back before the DRB again tomorrow (10/4) for preliminary approval.  These are intended to be ownership townhomes (not rentals).  It's down to 11 units now that they have the proper streetscaping.  The buildings are also now 3.5 floors and have a lot more windows.  They're pretty modernist, which isn't everyone's cup of tea.

574714202_MagTownessite1.thumb.jpg.0dd476e300749311887bb30b58cca531.jpg

1653820303_MagTownesrenderingcollage.thumb.jpg.8a58bd715f470e23b913fbbcea9dea1a.jpg

2088573045_MagTownesrendering-Magangle.thumb.jpg.28467ea8df6218f12d6db26cf6ece2b4.jpg

1091982354_MagTownessite2.jpg.e9d99b5776054cbe755e2e1eda22fb17.jpg

Here's the agenda packet, which includes Craig Lewis's comments at the end (he recommends site plan approval).  DRB - Meeting Packet - 2022-10-04.pdf  Some points he makes:

o There are a lot of colors (5-6), materials (3-4), and façade movement –simplification is recommended
o What is the beige-colored element – EIFS?
o The vent stack hoods seem oversized and inappropriate for the front façade
o Corner windows can be tricky to keep sealed
o The asymmetry of the main body windows appears awkward next to the center window alignment of the recessed entry bay
o Consider eliminating windows that warp the corner and look into neighbor’s windows.
o The window pattern on the exposed sides do not align to the model drawings.

o Consider adding more windows to the left side elevation to add more light into the bedrooms
o Does the brick on the right elevation have a profile that the siding terminated into or are they flush? (the former is recommended)

The proposed 4 story building is under review for building code compliance – at present, the current configuration is interpreted as needing compliance with the IBC (International Building Code) not the IRC (International Residential Code) which would require sprinklers and a wider setback between buildings. Because we anticipate changes depending on the final resolution of this interpretation, we recommend reviewing the site plan only.

We recommend approval of the site plan.

We also recommend that the DRB provide initial comments regarding the architectural to help
guide their final submission.

There are also minutes for last month's meeting, which may give some insight into why the DRB gave conceptual approval to Northside Townhomes P2, but I haven't had time to read it yet.

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30 minutes ago, westsider28 said:

This goes back before the DRB again tomorrow (10/4) for preliminary approval.  These are intended to be ownership townhomes (not rentals).  It's down to 11 units now that they have the proper streetscaping.  The buildings are also now 3.5 floors and have a lot more windows.  They're pretty modernist, which isn't everyone's cup of tea.

574714202_MagTownessite1.thumb.jpg.0dd476e300749311887bb30b58cca531.jpg

1653820303_MagTownesrenderingcollage.thumb.jpg.8a58bd715f470e23b913fbbcea9dea1a.jpg

2088573045_MagTownesrendering-Magangle.thumb.jpg.28467ea8df6218f12d6db26cf6ece2b4.jpg

1091982354_MagTownessite2.jpg.e9d99b5776054cbe755e2e1eda22fb17.jpg

Here's the agenda packet, which includes Craig Lewis's comments at the end (he recommends site plan approval).  DRB - Meeting Packet - 2022-10-04.pdf  Some points he makes:

o There are a lot of colors (5-6), materials (3-4), and façade movement –simplification is recommended
o What is the beige-colored element – EIFS?
o The vent stack hoods seem oversized and inappropriate for the front façade
o Corner windows can be tricky to keep sealed
o The asymmetry of the main body windows appears awkward next to the center window alignment of the recessed entry bay
o Consider eliminating windows that warp the corner and look into neighbor’s windows.
o The window pattern on the exposed sides do not align to the model drawings.

o Consider adding more windows to the left side elevation to add more light into the bedrooms
o Does the brick on the right elevation have a profile that the siding terminated into or are they flush? (the former is recommended)

The proposed 4 story building is under review for building code compliance – at present, the current configuration is interpreted as needing compliance with the IBC (International Building Code) not the IRC (International Residential Code) which would require sprinklers and a wider setback between buildings. Because we anticipate changes depending on the final resolution of this interpretation, we recommend reviewing the site plan only.

We recommend approval of the site plan.

We also recommend that the DRB provide initial comments regarding the architectural to help
guide their final submission.

There are also minutes for last month's meeting, which may give some insight into why the DRB gave conceptual approval to Northside Townhomes P2, but I haven't had time to read it yet.

I don't hate these. 

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Points from meeting:

▪️ Preliminary approval was granted for the site plan; elevation concerns and some other caveats mentioned below will need to be worked out before full preliminary approval/final approval can be granted.

▪️ Public hearing included one comment in support for the project, no comments were given against it.

▪️ I picked up that the middle section will be a common green space area, perhaps a dog park, with trees for shade.

▪️ The fourth floors will not be closed as they appear on the renderings, but rather open - think covered patio/terrace with a half bathroom. The intent is to provide some outdoor space, with some being covered, some open to sunlight.

▪️ There will be a central mail collection area.

▪️ SOME will be for sale (condominiums), SOME will be for rent.

▪️ Trees and lawn are to be added between street and buildings and to be included in final renderings.

▪️ Buildings will need to be elevated two feet above sidewalk and will need to appear in the renderings as well.

▪️ Simplification of color scheme was recommended by Craig Lewis. At the same time, Kevin DeMark brought up concerns about a certain monotony of the rear façades of the building, and recommended that that be looked at also. While this will be examined more closely by the developer, the clarification that all balconies will be facing out towards the streets and not towards the back of the other building helped to allay fears of residents having to stare at blandness.

▪️ The façade along Raindrop Street will also include brick like what will be present on façade facing Milan Street.

▪️ Glass material used for windows will be with an eye towards energy efficiency/environmental concerns.

▪️ The possibility of removing the wall separating the AC units in the roof area with the open terrace space will be considered.

▪️ Elevations and grading issues will need to be worked out before full preliminary approval is granted; if everything is worked out at the next meeting, final approval may be granted then also.
 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Looked inside The Hub, and the interior upfits are coming along, but still a ways to go.  Hope they manage to open in November, as planned.

PXL_20221016_191241272.thumb.jpg.16989a4c92a7dc64ab1f3d7608f4b90e.jpg

PXL_20221016_191412078.thumb.jpg.6a22fa71bfb640295e56f485c47f7433.jpg

The park behind TK Gregg looks like it's getting very close to completion. Rubber surfaces in place under the playgrounds, sodding done, benches and awnings in; just need to finish a few sidewalk sections and maybe put a fence around the soccer field area.  Oh and tree planting.

PXL_20221015_212402174.thumb.jpg.924d05da551834ee702ad91c9a8c8940.jpg

PXL_20221015_212410935.thumb.jpg.9514248a1eae69ee74dc84c32bea1782.jpg

With this, the Northside honestly has the most parks and open space of any neighborhood in the City.  Needs much more housing density now, IMO.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Apologies for 2 posts in a row, but I forgot to post about the projects going before the DRB on Tuesday (11/1). 

Magnolia Townes have really improved, IMO.  They're requesting prelim approval, and the City consultant recommends approval.

1547969268_MTSP.jpg.30d6219bb6682d41de38d21ce9440588.jpg

1377854411_MTmag.thumb.jpg.cbfb1c31c7ac2e8eefe5b70a2bbd2fe7.jpg

721264542_MTmag2.thumb.jpg.c7f4a384e2e21b6ff6e65c01ee8ff7cd.jpg

569113838_MTmilan.thumb.jpg.43438abb632bddc1bd659becfefc9e88.jpg

1270256354_MTrd.thumb.jpg.e2df8add56b8b204de258c02479e66a6.jpg

Northside Townhomes Phase 2 rearranged some interior sidewalks, but basically addressed zero other DRB/staff concerns.  Sidewalks widths are different on every street frontage and substandard in places; the greenspace is still largely unusable as a public space; there's a lack of trees still (partially due to excessive driveway widths); and the buildings themselves are an overdesigned, overly complex mishmash of styles.  City consultant recommends denial, and even says, "we encourage the DRB to closely review the proposed elevations with the same scrutiny provided to other similar projects and apply design conditions as appropriate."  IMO, he's suggesting the DRB is taking it easy on this project.  I agree and hope the DRB demands more from the developer on this one.

89236352_NSTp2sp1.thumb.jpg.f88e673bd168ce5c4b227829a0fb5bbf.jpg

2092411594_NSthP2siteplan(2).thumb.jpg.a1d504491cfb3fc90fd6267eb80dcca6.jpg

Updated site plan, then old site plan

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I'm usually in the "no modernist" boat, but some variety isn't a bad thing as long as they're well-designed (which these seem to be). The amount of absolute garbage development we would have in Spartanburg without the DRB to filter is crazy to think about.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Some Northside tidbits: the park behind TK Gregg will have an official opening ceremony this Saturday, Nov. 19.  Apparently the name of the park will be revealed at that time (not sure why its secret...).

The latest leasing listing for Aden Bonded now says Q2 2024 delivery, which is a decent delay from the original Q4 2023 projection.  They've had no new leases since July, so maybe that's the problem.  I'd love to see Chapman Cultural Center or Artists Collective lease space for artist studios.  Could be a cool, Asheville-like vibe there.  Like an improved Mayfair Art Studios (which I guess is good for artists, but it's not great for public browsing, outside of events. Plus it's not walkable and has a locked gate at times.)

1767221133_Adenspaces-Nov.thumb.jpg.aa853d8d70757ea0cd70ff3f6fe06aa4.jpg

On the other hand, I noticed that the lease listing for The Hub only has 1 vacancy remaining (Suite B).  Suite A, the north-most (endcap) space, has been leased.  Looking at the PDF flyer, the tenant is Knowledge Perk, a coffee shop out of Rock Hill.  Seems like a good fit.  A bit surprised it's another food/bev place, as those tend to use more parking.  The last spot has got to be retail/office, IMO, or they'll overburden their small parking lot.

835501101_HubtenantsNov.thumb.jpg.2a3a3bc33a1f486b1927fd302f42f9b0.jpg

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23 hours ago, westsider28 said:

Some Northside tidbits: the park behind TK Gregg will have an official opening ceremony this Saturday, Nov. 19.  Apparently the name of the park will be revealed at that time (not sure why its secret...).

The latest leasing listing for Aden Bonded now says Q2 2024 delivery, which is a decent delay from the original Q4 2023 projection.  They've had no new leases since July, so maybe that's the problem.  I'd love to see Chapman Cultural Center or Artists Collective lease space for artist studios.  Could be a cool, Asheville-like vibe there.  Like an improved Mayfair Art Studios (which I guess is good for artists, but it's not great for public browsing, outside of events. Plus it's not walkable and has a locked gate at times.)

1767221133_Adenspaces-Nov.thumb.jpg.aa853d8d70757ea0cd70ff3f6fe06aa4.jpg

On the other hand, I noticed that the lease listing for The Hub only has 1 vacancy remaining (Suite B).  Suite A, the north-most (endcap) space, has been leased.  Looking at the PDF flyer, the tenant is Knowledge Perk, a coffee shop out of Rock Hill.  Seems like a good fit.  A bit surprised it's another food/bev place, as those tend to use more parking.  The last spot has got to be retail/office, IMO, or they'll overburden their small parking lot.

835501101_HubtenantsNov.thumb.jpg.2a3a3bc33a1f486b1927fd302f42f9b0.jpg

How you caught the coffee shop when it's not even showing up on their current site is beyond me! Apart from that, a coffee shop there should do great, with Wofford being across their street and their book store right there. The Regional crowd will be able to benefit from it quite well also. Having a place nearby to get away while waiting for results will be a great perk for many.

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18 hours ago, Santi said:

How you caught the coffee shop when it's not even showing up on their current site is beyond me! Apart from that, a coffee shop there should do great, with Wofford being across their street and their book store right there. The Regional crowd will be able to benefit from it quite well also. Having a place nearby to get away while waiting for results will be a great perk for many.

I have heard great things about Knowledge Perk from friends in the Rock Hill and Fort Mill areas.  When I first saw the PDF though I thought it was for a chicken restaurant :P But I even thought a coffee shop would be a good fit there before I found out about this, so yay!

Edited by SpartanBorn&Raised
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52 minutes ago, SpartanBorn&Raised said:

I have heard great things about Knowledge Perk from friends in the Rock Hill and Fort Mill areas.  When I first saw the PDF though I thought it was for a chicken restaurant :P But I even thought a coffee shop would be a good fit there before I found out about this, so yay!

Same here - I posted this on my FB account, and the reviews of those who have actually been to one is nothing but high praise. 

I also received notification that there will be a formal announcement by Knowledge Perk in the coming weeks, and some people have already been invited to try their coffee - so, yes, it's happening!

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Tiger Park is the name of the park behind TK Gregg (named for the mascot of Cleveland Academy of Leadership).  It's a semi-public park, in that it's used by the school during the school day, and open to the public all other times (after school, weekends, holidays, etc).

Sully's Steamers opened this weekend at The Hub.  Their hours are 7am-3pm on Monday-Friday and 8:30am-3pm on Saturday and Sunday.

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