The Maglev Train [Proposed]

[CalvinEggnog]

I'll be more excited for this to happen than for any high rise downtown could ever have.  Give me more and better public transportation any day!  Especially monorail/light rail.  But monorails are just so cool and futuristic, and they stay out of the way of both pedestrian and vehicle traffic.

 

I think as long as there is a monorail that goes directly from OIA to WDW, Disney should be on board.  Even though it's the third phase, once it's complete, they'll be able to possibly reduce the amount they spend on their Magical Express fleet.  

 

Plus, I'm curious if Disney could find a way to build a monorail TTC-like building at the Disney Springs property.  Imagine all the foot traffic they'll have - without a bunch of cars filling up the parking lots/garage.  And if they could then use that to build a monorail system from Disney Springs to the existing TTC, I think that would benefit them as well.

 

I think it could be a real win-win.  I love pipe dreams.

[jrs2]

More on Maglev:

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2014/05/maglevs-proposed-stations-timeline-to-launch-new.html

 

They're talking about perhaps beginning construction as early as THIS fall.  Also, they mention a circulator for I-Drive, again, and pencil in Rosen Centre, Rosen Plaza, and Hyatt as the stops.

 

What exactly would the circulator be, an AGT system like at OIA, or just an extension of the Maglev track which would in essence service the entire frontage that the OCCC has with I-Drive?

[codypet]

You sure about that? There was a stop right at Disney World planned for the high speed rail line to Tampa.

 Yes Disney did a lot to make it hard for a stop at Disney to exist.  The Disney stop had to be in FDOT R/W because they did not want it on property.  They liked the idea of busing people right to the hotels from the airport.  They lobbied very hard to get the whole project axed.

 

Rosen didn't like anything that was going to give people the option to stay in Tampa or Lakeland and get to OCCC relatively easy.  He lobbied very hard to get HSR axed too.

[tm68]

this is from wikipedia, something to note:

 

Old Dominion University[edit]

In 1999, Old Dominion University agreed to work with American Maglev Technogies of Atlanta to construct an on-campus student transportation link of less than one mile — using a smart train / dumb track design in which most sensors, magnets, and computation were located on the train rather than the track.^[78] With cost and safety concern, several other institutes of higher learning rejected the project. While projected to cost less to build per mile than existing systems, the ODU maglev was never operational. After depleting its $14 million budget, a groundbreaking was held in 2001, the project was completed in 2002; and the technology failed: the vehicle lost its "float" and come to a full friction stop on top of the rail, damaging much of the system. American Maglev and ODU dissolved their relationship and the project became an internal university research project.^[79][80][81] In October 2006, the research team performed an unscheduled test of the car that went smoothly. The system was subsequently removed from the power grid for nearby construction.^[82] In February 2009, the team retested the sled and was successful despite power outages on campus. ODU subsequently partnered with a Massachusetts-based company to test another maglev train. MagneMotion Inc. was expected to bring its prototype maglev vehicle, about the size of a van, to the campus to test in 2010.^[83]

AMT Test Track – Powder Springs, Georgia[edit]

The same principle is involved in the construction of a second prototype system in Powder Springs, Georgia, USA, by American Maglev Technology, Inc. The test track is 2,000' long with a 550' curve. Vehicles are operated up to 37 mph which is below the proposed operational maximum of 60 mph. A June 2013 review of the technology called for an extensive testing program to be carried out to ensure the system complies with various regulatory requirements including the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) APM Standard. The review noted that the test track is too short to assess the vehicles dynamics at the maximum proposed speeds.^[

[Alleri459]

The OBJ is reporting American Maglev revealed details on where they plan on locating 6 stations for the OIA to OCCC leg. but the route now follows the 528? The FDOT documents stated it would run along sand lake then Universal Blvd. 

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/news/2014/06/13/on-track-american-maglev-reveals-details-on-6.html

 

 

 

If this is the case, I really think a strong emphasis on BRT or LYMMO style circulator could be done all through I-Drive with longer segmented busses. Or (wishful thinking here) a monorail starting from the Rosen Shingle Creek/UCF to Pointe Orlando, via Universal, and then continuing up I-Drive to Universal, the north end on to Millenia. lol.

[jrs2]

So it looks like their primary objective is to make the 3 major hoteliers (4 stops) around the OCCC happy, and to make the OCCC happy.  The Maglev will be a major asset to the OCCC by connecting Pointe Orlando (not that it needs it) and Florida Mall to it via rail for convenient entertainment options ala transit.  I just hope Simon gets on board and somehow builds out a wing or allows Maglev to incorporate their station into the actual building itself.  Also by connecting it directly to OIA (obviously) and the FEC train.

 

It looks like they won't build a station at SLR Sunrail after all according to this proposal.  I bet they wanted FDOT $$$ for that station since Sunrail would benefit.  

[aent]

So it looks like their primary objective is to make the 3 major hoteliers (4 stops) around the OCCC happy, and to make the OCCC happy.  The Maglev will be a major asset to the OCCC by connecting Pointe Orlando (not that it needs it) and Florida Mall to it via rail for convenient entertainment options ala transit.  I just hope Simon gets on board and somehow builds out a wing or allows Maglev to incorporate their station into the actual building itself.  Also by connecting it directly to OIA (obviously) and the FEC train.

 

It looks like they won't build a station at SLR Sunrail after all according to this proposal.  I bet they wanted FDOT $$$ for that station since Sunrail would benefit.  

This doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they would get a fair number of riders connecting from SunRail, and vice versa so they would benefit just as much. Moreso them as they're dependant on the tourists/one-time users instead of the commuters.If I live in orlando, my best shot of paying their high fare is if the alternative is paying for parking at the other stops. Parking at a park n ride on sunrail and transferring to it makes the most sense.

[jrs2]

This doesn't make sense to me, it seems like they would get a fair number of riders connecting from SunRail, and vice versa so they would benefit just as much. Moreso them as they're dependant on the tourists/one-time users instead of the commuters.If I live in orlando, my best shot of paying their high fare is if the alternative is paying for parking at the other stops. Parking at a park n ride on sunrail and transferring to it makes the most sense.

Maglev will have AAF riders and OIA riders emanating from the OIA intermodal center.  That would outnumber Sunrail transfers by 3 to 1 I think.

 

That being said, Maglev said they wouldn't build a station at SLR Sunrail unless it was needed.  maybe that's a leverage issue. If Sunrail does extend to OIA, it won't be needed at SLR.

[prahaboheme]

^It could still be needed at both locations - there are many transit systems in the world that have overlapping lines (where there is more than one stop per line on the same route) due to accessibility and mobility. 

To clarify - if one is travelling southbound on SunRail, it would be much more convenient to switch to the Maglev at SLR than to travel the distance to OIA.

[Pete C]

The SunRail-Maglev connection is worthless to a private developer like American Maglev.

 

What visitors are going to use that connection? As we all know, SunRail only operates during commuting hours on weekdays and doesn't operate at all on weekends. You can't advertise DPAC events and sporting events downtown, or Park Ave shopping to tourists with such a limited schedule. Business visitors trying to get downtown would also be impacted by this trying to match up flights with SunRail's schedule.

 

What locals are going to use that connection? I don't think many locals would choose to take SunRail to Maglev to OIA to catch a plane vs driving. It might be cheaper to take that combo than park at the airport for a week, but most business travelers can expense that so the price doesn't matter to them. Families with a lot of luggage will not want to deal with the hassle. Finally, again SunRail's tiny operating window would make it difficult to match that up exactly with departing and returning flight times.

 

Until SunRail expands operating hours to weekends and nights (which is probably impossible due to freight train needs), it is just not a viable system for anything but local commuters going back and forth to work. The city will have to step up to make this connection happen since the dollars aren't there for American Maglev to invest in that.

[John Hargrove]

The SunRail-Maglev connection is worthless to a private developer like American Maglev.

 

What visitors are going to use that connection? As we all know, SunRail only operates during commuting hours on weekdays and doesn't operate at all on weekends. You can't advertise DPAC events and sporting events downtown, or Park Ave shopping to tourists with such a limited schedule. Business visitors trying to get downtown would also be impacted by this trying to match up flights with SunRail's schedule.

 

What locals are going to use that connection? I don't think many locals would choose to take SunRail to Maglev to OIA to catch a plane vs driving. It might be cheaper to take that combo than park at the airport for a week, but most business travelers can expense that so the price doesn't matter to them. Families with a lot of luggage will not want to deal with the hassle. Finally, again SunRail's tiny operating window would make it difficult to match that up exactly with departing and returning flight times.

 

Until SunRail expands operating hours to weekends and nights (which is probably impossible due to freight train needs), it is just not a viable system for anything but local commuters going back and forth to work. The city will have to step up to make this connection happen since the dollars aren't there for American Maglev to invest in that.

 

As a frequent business traveler that lives in the CBD, you couldn't be more correct. There would have to be trains running every 15-30 minutes from 4AM to 10PM on the downtown end and 6AM to Midnight on the MCO end for it to be viable. The connectivity and time of operation has to mirror that of the airport's, and the chasm between those two schedules is monstrous at the moment.

 

We are a _very_ long way away from transit being useful for Orlando business travelers.

[UPSDAN]

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/planned-maglev-train-would-connect-travelers-i-dri/nhDK8/

[prahaboheme]

As skeptical as I have been about the maglev, it is interesting to see the proposed route and how it could service the tourism corridor with possible extensions to other area locations such as the I-Drive 360 development (which klstory mentioned in a previous post).  I do have to question why this route would not service the Sand Lake Rd SunRail Station, thus providing the direct link to OIA that SunRail is considering (wouldn't this ultimately be a cost saver rather than having two systems along essentially the same route but without a link?).

[jliv]

There are two distinct systems emerging in the proposals: a circulator system connecting the Pointe to an intermodal station east of the Convention Center, and a connector between the intermodal station to the airport. It appears riders will have to alight the circulator system to use the airport connector. Given the absence of details on the airport connector in the new renderings, it's safe to assume the I-drive circulator is where the focus of development is for the first phase. This will allow for the technology to move out of the experimental phase quickly and into the operational phase with minimum exposure to investors, allowing for federal grants to subsidize the second phase. I'm actually less skeptical about the technology after doing a little research; it's quite similar to a Japanese technology (LIMINO) which has been in operation for 9 years, which can provide a 'Plan B' option in case there are technical issues with the AMT technology. I'm actually rooting for this project, as it promises a new technology to provide a cheaper, cleaner, and less-disruptive alternative to light rail.

[jrs2]

^^

I read this article as well.  I actually didn't consider that the circulator could be a first phase.  The problem is that the end intermodal station at the OCCC garage would not be any destination to speak of unless Hilton built a skywalk as renderings suggest could happen.  AMT looks like they wanted to get all of the major "players" involved and on board (Hilton, Hyatt, Rosen, Orange County, and Pointe Orlando) early to make this a reality.

 

I also noticed no details on the rest of the system, i.e., the Florida Mall station.  I assume they haven't inked any deals with Simon yet so there aren't any details they can give b/c of the unknown regarding station placement/design, etc., for Florida Mall.

 

This is beginning to look more and more legitimate.  The next 2-3 mos. will be telling.

[HankStrong]

The sheer volume of tourists (especially the Brazilian ones) who might consider buying a ton of stuff at the mall before flying home should be enough to make Simon jump on this like flies on poo.

[spenser1058]

Speaking of Brazilian tourists, I notice that Banco de Brasil seems to be building a branch on I-Drive in the heart of the Brazilian district. It's  a pretty good-looking little building by today's branch standards. I hadn't seen this bank in town previously - we're getting just a wee bit more cosmopolitan every day.

[jrs2]

^^

Banco de Brasil...that's awesome.  The foreign money presence is steadily increasing, which is good for foreign investment.

 

^^

I totally agree about Simon jumping all over this thing (Maglev).  I would even plan a new wing with the station incorporated within it to make it an ultra novelty to really get more people to the mall.

[Casselberry_Knight]

I was quite the skeptic when this was first announced, but it seems that they "got their stuff" together, and this actually could work.

 

Seems as though they designed the system to support future extension up to Universal Orlando and the Outlet malls. Smart move.

[HankStrong]

I'm still not 100% sure why maglev tech is appropriate in this application, but I love the thought of getting as many tourists/distracted business people off 528 and I-4 as possible.

 

As someone who is a daily driver of those roads... the taxi drivers doing 25 things at once while driving, the lost tourists, and the business people driving like lunatics all add to my daily misery.  Each one removed from the road, but still adding to our economy, is a good thing.

[aent]

I'm still not 100% sure why maglev tech is appropriate in this application, but I love the thought of getting as many tourists/distracted business people off 528 and I-4 as possible.

 

As someone who is a daily driver of those roads... the taxi drivers doing 25 things at once while driving, the lost tourists, and the business people driving like lunatics all add to my daily misery.  Each one removed from the road, but still adding to our economy, is a good thing.

Why would maglev tech be inappropriate in this application? It has much lower operating costs, less wearable parts, and higher efficiency. The only real disadvantage is the higher upfront costs, but since this company seems to want to do it in house and has some sort of experience in doing so, and does not have experience with other systems, its hard to say how much more its really even going to cost them upfront verse contracting out its construction.

[HankStrong]

_{Why would maglev tech be inappropriate in this application? It has much lower operating costs, less wearable parts, and higher efficiency. The only real disadvantage is the higher upfront costs, but since this company seems to want to do it in house and has some sort of experience in doing so, and does not have experience with other systems, its hard to say how much more its really even going to cost them upfront verse contracting out its construction.}

 

I guess it's kinda like buying a Porsche to drive to your job a few blocks around the corner.  Couldn't you take a moped or ride a bicycle?  Or just use the Camry in the garage?

 

Some of the huge pluses for maglev are the high speeds, the ability to cover long distances easily, getting up and over mountains or unique terrain, etc.  This route doesn't really meet any of those.  Ultimately, it's their money and as long as they are paying for it the worrying is on them.

 

My thoughts would be if this company fails.  I believe this agreement has some sort of bond in it where they have to have some sort of de-commission contingency plan.  If they install some sort of conventional rail system and they tank, the bond they put up wouldn't have to go to destroying the system, but just to working it into the existing local rail works.  It could seamlessly work with SunRail or All-Aboard Florida's technology.

 

 

 

THAT SAID, if The Tan Man really wins and brings back Orlando-Tampa high speed rail, then maybe they could morph that to a compatible maglev technology instead of the previous idea????

[aent]

Its really not like using a Porsche as the operational costs on that are still extremely high, higher then your Camry alternatives. Maglev is always more efficient then traditional rail, regardless of the speed, and requires much less ongoing maintenance. Its more like buying a Tesla over your Camry... its more efficient for sure, but is it worth the price difference? Probably not. If you are Tesla though and can get your vehicle at your production cost instead of buying from Toyota at market rates though... maybe it makes financial sense too at that point. Especially over the long term.

[HankStrong]

Hype, hype, hype and now... tumbleweeds. 

[orlandouprise]

Why is this thing dead? any updates??