The Maglev Train [Proposed]

[Boomer136]

It seems that the GOAA has opted for light rail here? @AMT_technology tweet seems to say as much. What concerns did they have? Too risk adverse?

[HankStrong]

This company seems to excel at broken dreams.

[aent]

13 hours ago, Boomer136 said:

It seems that the GOAA has opted for light rail here? @AMT_technology tweet seems to say as much. What concerns did they have? Too risk adverse?

Pretty much. I'm disappointed with them as AMT was willing to put up a bond to cover teardown if the system did not work or they go under.

So best case is we have this system built and functional at no cost to the taxpayers, get all the media coverage of first [non-test] maglev system in the US, Orlando gets more promotion as being magical.

Worst cases are:

- AMT can't get the system built like everyone is saying they can't... which if they never even start on it, we're no worse off than today, infact they probably have caused more plans to be created at this point then without them.

- AMT partially builds it and fails midway. We'll have to bond to cover removal costs if there is no real useful structure

- AMT builds it and can't get it operating reliably. If this happens, we should be able to still claim the bond to cover removal costs, but we also could possibly reuse this elevated structure between the airport and I-drive and stations put normal tracks on top of it, meaning now if someone else wants to come in with a new system (whether public or private), their infrastructure costs are going to be drastically less.

 

AMT very well could only be failing because they aren't good at politics. I wish they'd give them a shot, our possible losses just don't seem so bad. Require a set completion date with a reliability guarantee or the bond and the non-removable portions of the system goes to the county. Seems it would make it win-win-win. If AMT is successful, unlike other recent transit projects around the country where they don't make much news, Orlando is likely to get a ton of hype for the first privately funded mass transit in recent history and even some people riding it because the media will call it a floating train. Hell I kind of want to ride it for the sake of riding a maglev even I don't need its destinations. A lightrail is uninteresting in that regard to me. Give them a chance

[HankStrong]

7 hours ago, aent said:

I kind of want to ride it for the sake of riding a maglev even I don't need its destinations.

I've been on the maglev from Shanghai to Pudong Airport and it was awesome.  It was one of my personal transportation highlights.

[jrs2]

I think what's most important to the region is that a rail system gets built connecting MCO to I-Drive, "maglev" or not.

Sunrail to MCO is paramount as that link puts Orlando into an elite group with rail connections to their downtown.

Any system along the "maglev corridor" to I-Drive puts Orlando into an even more elite group offering rail connections to the convention center/main tourist corridor.

[aent]

12 hours ago, jrs2 said:

I think what's most important to the region is that a rail system gets built connecting MCO to I-Drive, "maglev" or not.

Sunrail to MCO is paramount as that link puts Orlando into an elite group with rail connections to their downtown.

Any system along the "maglev corridor" to I-Drive puts Orlando into an even more elite group offering rail connections to the convention center/main tourist corridor.

Does anyone know if its light rail, will it even be grade separated? The way I see it, they're saying it will cost $200 million more (and likely be slower)... that reduces the likelihood of it getting built. In this political climate, I doubt taxpayers will foot the bill for a system (and why should they? a private company is happy to build it for free)

[Boomer136]

Instead off a City of Tomorrow project, it's now a City of Many Yesterdays. They should make the train set steam driven. 

[jrs2]

I've been on LRT systems with overhead wiring, like the one in Amsterdam.  Works great and travels on the city streets along with auto traffic.  

If they could build Maglev on an elevated guideway, why not an LRT with underneath electric, or heavy rail like Metrorail in Miami?  Shouldn't the costs be the same?  I'm wondering if the guideway for Maglev is simpler and cheaper to build.

[metal93]

On 1/3/2016 at 5:22 PM, jrs2 said:

I've been on LRT systems with overhead wiring, like the one in Amsterdam.  Works great and travels on the city streets along with auto traffic.  

If they could build Maglev on an elevated guideway, why not an LRT with underneath electric, or heavy rail like Metrorail in Miami?  Shouldn't the costs be the same?  I'm wondering if the guideway for Maglev is simpler and cheaper to build.

I've ridden the Amsterdam trams too, they are great. Hopefully Lymmo would eventually become a light rail/streetcar system in the future.

For the Maglev, I think LRT might work, it'll just be slower but should be grade separated the entire way, or at least when crossing major roads. To justify heavy rail, it generally demands longer trains, higher frequencies, higher passenger capacities per vehicle, higher speeds, and the ability to use a wide variety of train vehicles that can run on standard gauge. Not to mention heavy rail is usually literally heavier by using heavier vehicles and larger infrastructure. In that case the cost would be more. The elevated guideways of both heavy and light rail generally use more material than would the guideways of a Maglev, so I assume the Maglev will be simpler and cheaper to build.

Whatever system is used, I just hope something gets built along this corridor.

[HankStrong]

I love the Amsterdam system, too.

It doesn't really matter what kind of system, as long as it is a system that works.  I've said for a long time that I feel Maglev is a bit much for this particular route, but whatever gets people off 528 and out of cars.

ETA:

As someone who has experienced mass transit (more than just busses) in a couple dozen cities domestically and around the world, I'm not sure why there is a group of folks who hate this idea so much.

[alex]

21 hours ago, metal93 said:

For the Maglev, I think LRT might work, it'll just be slower but should be grade separated the entire way, or at least when crossing major roads.

I agree that light-rail is also a good option. It can go slow (10-20 mph) in pedestrian areas, but 60+ mph between destinations, i.e. airport to Sand Lake or Sand Lake to I-Drive. But, like you said, the speed also depends on how grade-separated it is. I hope we don't end up with the mistake a lot of cities are doing and mixing light-rail with traffic. 

[demon]

A gentleman who works for UNLV was quoted in the LVRJ as saying the maglev is being built. Was he just making that up?

[HankStrong]

I was talking to my friend about this the other day. 

100% snake oil.  Which is quite sad.

[aent]

On 9/9/2016 at 0:50 PM, HankStrong said:

I was talking to my friend about this the other day. 

100% snake oil.  Which is quite sad.

didn't the airport shoot down the AMT proposal some time ago, making this dead? its obvious without the airport allowing a stop there is no way this project could have succeeded.

[metal93]

They killed off the maglev proposal in January, I believe. There  hasn't been much news since then on the project but I want to believe the more recent light rail proposal becomes reality.

http://www.wftv.com/news/local/orlando-orange-county-officials-optimistic-about-light-rail/278596656

There was also a speculation OBJ article on what Universal Studios might do with rail as well

http://www.bizjournals.com/orlando/blog/2016/05/universal-i-drive-area-plans-include-rail-road.html

As for other rail news, I haven't heard anything about the Orange Blossom Express in over a year, ditto about the Sunrail phase 3 airport connection, and no proposals for an east-west line. Sunrail phase 2 had a groundbreaking earlier this year but I'm not sure if construction is actually happening. All Aboard Florida/Brightline is really the only thing happening right now in terms of rail.

[smileguy]

I noticed on OCCC map the other day, an "Intermodal Transportation Station" under future projects, which leads me to believe they're already selling it to future clients. It's located right next to the 528 interchange, an easy mile+ walk from many parts of the Convention Center. I wonder if this is the proposed light rail connection. While placement somewhere more central (like the walkway between the two buildings) would surely be more expensive and a much bigger project because of how built up the area is, it would also make using the system much easier. 

[Boomer136]

That "intermodal" somewhat exists now. There is a parking garage and busses currently run there along with OCCC shuttles. Everything seems inplace for Destination Parkway to build a causeway or viaduct over to connect to Universal Blvd. Not sure if the trolley stops there now or not.

[Universe_Explorer]

The keyword there is "intermodal".  I think the county is desperately trying to create some connectivity with the rest of I-drive - including some quasi-BRT like lanes for trolleys - and then have a permanent circulator around the OCCC campus (almost certainly a bus/trolley).  There is land to the northwest of the Hyatt marketed for more hotel/retail development, and a general belief they will expand the North/South OCC building into that parking area.  Some of this is in response to feedback regarding traffic, connectivity, and overall satisfaction with events at the OCCC. 

[metal93]

I know recently those bus lanes were built onto N International Drive. I haven't been in the area in so long, not sure what the current situation on the rest of I-Drive is. Connectivity is just awful in all forms getting around - from the unconventional/disconnected road system that amplifies traffic, the narrow sidewalks, infrequent transit service, poor planning, it's all just a big mess that I avoid the I-Drive area altogether.

Whatever this possible expansion of OCC does, I hope it begins to address some issues, even if it's out of the way of I-Drive proper.

[jrs2]

^^

Well, whatever they do, I hope they don't carve into the tree lined median and ruin the aesthetic of I-Drive.  

You can get to wherever you need to go easily on I-Drive if you just use Universal Blvd and the cut-through streets that have traffic signals at both I-Drive and Universal- as alternatives to I-Drive when traffic is bad.  I would never take I-Drive south towards the SLR intersection.  It's a cluster****.  Use Universal Blvd instead but stay in the left lane b/c everyone in the right lane is trying to turn right onto SLR.  Also, Universal to SLR to Kirkman is an effective way north from the OCCC area.  Or, take Destination Parkway to leave the I-Drive area quickly if heading NE.  Heading south, you can always loop in back of the West Bldg and take the bridge across 528 to Westwood and take it down to CFLA Pkwy.

The simple truth is even in places like Manhattan and SF and LA, people know of and use the shortcut roads that are less traveled to get around effectively.  The tourists are the ones who rarely venture off the beaten path.

What I-Drive really needs is a new overpass connecting it to Turkey Lake Road near where the WalMart is, halfway to 528 from SLR

But I think people here think that the main drag (I-Drive) should always be congestion free.  That's just not realistic.  I was at Fisherman's Wharf in SF last week on their main drag and it was a cluster***.  Only with the use of side streets was I able to get around the area.

 

[sunshine]

I agree...not just I-drive..most people think streets in downtown should be congestion free as well. So city kept expanding roads for cars and cut into pedestrian and bike lane (if its even exist). Then people start complaining it is not pedestrian friendly. You cant have the cake and eat it too....
 

The city keep side steps when it comes to train in this county. Everybody know that the most ideal route is from downtown go along I4 - Universal - Millenia - I drive - OCCC - Sea World and Disney with a branch to airport. You would not have ridersship issue and we can make money from it. But instead of bite the bullets on the cost, we divided with this rail lines from nowhere to nowhere.

[Universe_Explorer]

On ‎9‎/‎16‎/‎2016 at 0:29 PM, jrs2 said:

^^

Well, whatever they do, I hope they don't carve into the tree lined median and ruin the aesthetic of I-Drive.  

You can get to wherever you need to go easily on I-Drive if you just use Universal Blvd and the cut-through streets that have traffic signals at both I-Drive and Universal- as alternatives to I-Drive when traffic is bad.  I would never take I-Drive south towards the SLR intersection.  It's a cluster****.  Use Universal Blvd instead but stay in the left lane b/c everyone in the right lane is trying to turn right onto SLR.  Also, Universal to SLR to Kirkman is an effective way north from the OCCC area.  Or, take Destination Parkway to leave the I-Drive area quickly if heading NE.  Heading south, you can always loop in back of the West Bldg and take the bridge across 528 to Westwood and take it down to CFLA Pkwy.

The simple truth is even in places like Manhattan and SF and LA, people know of and use the shortcut roads that are less traveled to get around effectively.  The tourists are the ones who rarely venture off the beaten path.

What I-Drive really needs is a new overpass connecting it to Turkey Lake Road near where the WalMart is, halfway to 528 from SLR

But I think people here think that the main drag (I-Drive) should always be congestion free.  That's just not realistic.  I was at Fisherman's Wharf in SF last week on their main drag and it was a cluster***.  Only with the use of side streets was I able to get around the area.

 

I'm not sure if they are going to use the median - I hope not, I like the way it looks - but I know they want to improve public transit from the hotels to the attractions and OCCC via buses/trolleys. Universal is a great side street  - for now...the long term plan is to build it up substantially.  Check out the plans for the land across Universal Blvd from the Orlando Eye

[jrs2]

^^

I think I read a while back that during those I-Drive vision meetings at the County, cab drivers were complaining about the median saying it was a hindrance and dangerous b/c there would be pedestrians there at times and that they were for having it removed or shrunken down.

^^

there are a lot of projects slated for I-Drive that either have stalled or have been delayed.  Rosen Plaza expansion, Mango's garage + retail, 20+ story hotel next to Westin, 20+ story hotel by Avanti, Idrive 360 tower ride, Polercoaster, hotel proposal just west of Universal Blvd  on I-Drive (30+ story tower), new construction hotel that stalled out on floor 4 past Banco Brazil, Megastron Phase II office bldg and garage, etc...  It's a weird economy.

[AndyPok1]

On 9/19/2016 at 3:53 PM, jrs2 said:

Megastron Phase II office bldg and garage, etc...  It's a weird economy.

Working in Kirkman Point... the stalled Phase II makes me angry on a daily basis.  HOW WAS THERE JUST ENOUGH FUNDS TO FENCE OFF AND TEAR UP THE PARKING LOT

[Closet_Urbanite]

On 9/16/2016 at 1:17 PM, sunshine said:

Everybody know that the most ideal route is from downtown go along I4 - Universal - Millenia - I drive - OCCC - Sea World and Disney with a branch to airport. You would not have ridersship issue and we can make money from it. But instead of bite the bullets on the cost, we divided with this rail lines from nowhere to nowhere.

Amen brother! Is there any glimmer of hope for this happening in parrale with Sunrail? Is FDOT making any provisions for such a possibility during I-4 widening?

An elevated train (Maglev or not) running along I-4 with an elevated platforms/stops in each of the key cities and attractions (Sanford-Lk Mary, Altamonte-436, Maitland, WinterPark-LeeRd, Downtown-Princeton, Downtown-SouthSt, Downtown-Kaley, Millenia-Conroy, Universal, Disney Springs, or Convention Center to MCO-Airport)...would be quite popular.

Wouldn't this create max utilization/accessibility for both tourists and locals, including those utilizing Orlando International Airport?