The Maglev Train [Proposed]

[jrs2]

^^

all I know is that FDOT approved it and the fall of 2014, which is now, is when Maglev was supposed to be working on contracts with entities that were to be adjacent to its track and/or where stations might or would go.  Simon's Fla Mall, GOAA, and the OCCC.  But, for the I-Drive Circulator, you're talking about Rosen Hotels, Hyatt, and Hilton Orlando.

 

I personally don't think this train will even consider opening even a month in advance of the Intermodal facility at OIA.  I don't think we'll hear anything more on this until the shovels hit the dirt at OIA on that intermodal center.  Actually, I think the key event is the opening of AAF at the intermodal center, because I bet they plan to lure rail riders more so than flight travelers.

 

Remember, without the AAF plan, this would never get built.  Their business model has always been to take a small percentage of the taxi and rent a car tourists from OIA.  And that number will increase once AAF comes.  And, AAF passengers will be an almost captive audience; they'll be right there at the same station whereas flight travelers will have to physically take the tram to the intermodal center.  And if the signage at OIA's terminal stinks, most of them won't even know about it.

 

Remember, the AAF Orlando leg is considered Phase II and will open around 6 months after the Miami to WPB segment opens. So, whatever timetable AMT was supposed to abide by as previously reported by the media, they probably will push it back 6 months to coincide with AAF.  IMO.

[bic]

Maglev update: FDOT pursues leases, appraisals for Orlando airport-to-I-Drive train route

 

[mrh3]

Does anyone know what the cost per mile of MagLev v. Commuter Rail is? I would love to see MagLev expanded throughout the Metro Area if this initial link works and eventually have traditional heavy commuter rail abandoned.

[aent]

Does anyone know what the cost per mile of MagLev v. Commuter Rail is? I would love to see MagLev expanded throughout the Metro Area if this initial link works and eventually have traditional heavy commuter rail abandoned.

Costs vary quite a bit given the requirements of the system and the geography of the land, but Orlando Maglev is claiming they can do it at $20 million/mile, which is traditionally low for Maglev, but they're doing it themselves so they wouldn't be making any profit on the construction of the line. Sunrail seems to be about $10 million/mile, but also included one of the lines of track already there, along with signals and other equipment.

[codypet]

Costs vary quite a bit given the requirements of the system and the geography of the land, but Orlando Maglev is claiming they can do it at $20 million/mile, which is traditionally low for Maglev, but they're doing it themselves so they wouldn't be making any profit on the construction of the line. Sunrail seems to be about $10 million/mile, but also included one of the lines of track already there, along with signals and other equipment.

 

Sunrail did replace the signals when they built it.  Isn't Maglev all elevated?   How can that much structure be $20mil/mile?

[aent]

Sunrail did replace the signals when they built it.  Isn't Maglev all elevated?   How can that much structure be $20mil/mile?

Yes, its all elevated. There supposedly has been in a bit of advances to reduce the cost of the system, and American Maglev, being the contractor, is estimating its cost with no profit margin. Typically, the contractor building it wants their profit margin, but in this case, they don't want a profit margin, they want costs minimized as they plan to make there money off of operating it. Wikipedia says its been built for $29 million/mile before in other countries. Obviously as the incentive is the minimimize the financing costs, they may want to slightly underestimate it, then once they spend what they got, ask for a little bit more to get it operational so they can begin paying it back, vs going with a higher number and not being able to find investors. I guess if it really does happen for $20 million/mile, we really should start seeing a lot more maglev systems. (Also should note that this does not include any land/ROW costs, but Sunrail also separated that out)

[bic]

Maglev-train plan for airport, convention center back on track

[jrs2]

 

Maglev-train plan for airport, convention center back on track

 

I read this article earlier.  The one thing I didn't like was that they make reference to Maglev still having to get approved, when FDOT already gave them the green light.  

[Pete C]

British firm plans to build cars for Orlando's Maglev train
 

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/brinkmann-on-business/os-ricardo-maglev-train-orlando-20150318-post.html

[Ocityst]

[codypet]

They've got some work to do if they're really building this.  Every conversation I've had with these people tells me they're not serious.

[HankStrong]

I'm still rooting for this, but have a lot of doubts that it will actually happen.  AND I still don't understand by this route would be maglev and not traditional train because it meets none of the criteria where maglev technology excels. 

[aent]

I'm still rooting for this, but have a lot of doubts that it will actually happen.  AND I still don't understand by this route would be maglev and not traditional train because it meets none of the criteria where maglev technology excels. 

 

Why wouldn't it excel for this use? The complaint has traditionally been the initial install cost for not using it for smaller, slower systems, not that it isn't the right technology, but the cost has come down drastically. They still have less wear and tear, lower maintenance costs, less friction, and thus noise. Whats the disadvantage of maglev over traditional rail, other then the previous higher costs? When compatibility and interoperability isn't a concern, as the price continues to drop, I doubt it will make much sense to build a traditional train system in the near future.

[HankStrong]

I still don't quite believe the initial prices could possibly be as low as they are claiming.  This group, in particular, has a history of chaos, unfulfilled promises, and high costs OOPS moments.  Not to mention they have exactly ZERO successful projects under their belts.

 

But my comments were regarding how maglev excels at long distances between stops, high speeds, and unique terrain.

This route will have several short stops, slow speeds, and almost completely flat terrain.

[jliv]

It seems that GrupoACS is financing the endeavor, in order to demonstrate a technology that could potentially drive down fixed guideway transportation costs, from a capex and opex perspective. A similar system was built in Japan (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linimo), albeit at a much higher cost than is being proposed in Orlando. Perhaps the Limino technology could be licensed as a backup in case the AMT technology isn't fit for purpose. However, I'm rooting for this project due to its potential to improve transportation options across the US.

[HankStrong]

That's my stance, too.

 

Much like SunRail... the 1st Phase isn't going to change the planet, but you can't have Phases 2-200 without a 1st one.

[aent]

I still don't quite believe the initial prices could possibly be as low as they are claiming.  This group, in particular, has a history of chaos, unfulfilled promises, and high costs OOPS moments.  Not to mention they have exactly ZERO successful projects under their belts.

 

But my comments were regarding how maglev excels at long distances between stops, high speeds, and unique terrain.

This route will have several short stops, slow speeds, and almost completely flat terrain.

 

Thats what I was wondering... Maglev isn't known to be weak on the alternatives... Maglev also excels at faster acceleration and braking, and flat terrain isn't a deterrent. While maglev may not be a necessity on this route, it surely shouldn't be a deterrent or a problem if the cost isn't an issue. If this project succeeds, it will be a lot of firsts... first (of 2) privately funded train system in america in a very, very long time, first maglev train in the USA, etc...

 

What is the point of this company spending time and effort on this if they aren't serious? Obviously there are a lot of difficulties, but whats the return for them if the project completely fails and they proceed forward? Doesn't seem like anything

[jrs2]

Personally I think that Phase I will get built.  They've come very far thus far (that sounds weird).  I believe that the Intermodal will get built with AAF connecting to it (at this point I think it is guaranteed). 

 

And I wouldn't be surprise if the Sunrail people (FDOT) tell Maglev to go ahead with a station at SLR (based on how funding shortages have been going as of late for Sunrail).  At least if they build a station at SLR, it won't matter too much about the "Phase III" direct link to OIA's timetable; they would still create a Sunrail link to OIA via rail by 2017 which would increase Sunrail ridership.  I think this is a dynamic they are seriously considering at the present.

 

That last article mentioned a station "near" the Florida Mall.  I sure was hoping Maglev and Simon would collaborate on a station close to the mall building or integrated as part of the mall or a future expansion intermodal section with Maglev and buses.  That mall has the Florida Hotel and conference center attached to it.  They could really set themselves apart with a Maglev station integrated into a new wing.

[HankStrong]

^^ I agree with your comment about "what is the point..." but they do have a track record of letting people down in this industry.

 

http://wtkr.com/2014/04/28/levitating-trains-light-rail-alternative-or-magnetic-money-pit/

http://ireport.cnn.com/docs/DOC-586439

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Dominion_University#Maglev

 

 

^ If this does happen, and Florida Mall shouldn't move until it does, the mall has an amazing chance to have a massive cash cow on their hands.  They could build a multimodal world of their own down there with Brazilian tour buses, OIA train, Lynx buses, and it could really bring in the money! 

 

Imagine if:

you were at a convention and could just pop over to replace that outfit that was ruined at last night's mixer event? 

you could just make one last stop at the mall to fill up your suitcase with some souvenirs for the kids?

you could stop and buy every single pair of jeans you see and all the electronics ever made before you head back to Brazil?   (I'm always curious about what must be a massive blue jeans shortage in Brazil)

[codypet]

If this project succeeds, it will be a lot of firsts... first (of 2) privately funded train system in america in a very, very long time, first maglev train in the USA, etc...

 

Second.   All Aboard Florida being the first.  We know that's happening because all the stations are under construction.

[aent]

Second.   All Aboard Florida being the first.  We know that's happening because all the stations are under construction.

While you're probably right (hence my parenthesis as well), it is possible Maglev launches first. They're both supposedly targeting 2017 launches, no?

[HankStrong]

While you're probably right (hence my parenthesis as well), it is possible Maglev launches first. They're both supposedly targeting 2017 launches, no?

 

Miami to WPB is expected in 2016.

http://www.allaboardflorida.com/project-details/faqs

 

 

Really the entire route from Miami to what I'll call West Cocoa (where the 528 hits I-95) should be ready by that time.  However, the track from there to Orlando won't be open and the OAI Intermodal station won't be open.  There also are no confirmed/locked plans for a station in West Cocoa yet, although there are plenty of rumors/hopes/dreams/wishes for that.  Port Canaveral is looking for funding and I would suppose some sort of existing train route, which doesn't seem to exist from Google Maps (unless you go through the Space Center, which doesn't seem likely) and would have to probably be built.

[jrs2]

^^

the Cocoa stop would hypothetically be somewhere near where the tracks intersect with 528, which makes sense.  then they would use shuttle buses to the Port.

[klstorey]

Not sure if any of you are following the American Maglev group on Twitter. You need to. They seem to share a lot. I asked what they want after Phase 1. Oddly it wasn't the bottom part of the loop, instead they mentioned going East/West to UCF and Lake Nona. They also mentioned that they'd like to take it to Lakeland, Tampa and Clearwater.

Could this be a viable option for the HSR corridor?

Closer to home I really expect to see UOR link up to this. With the Wet n Wild property soon to be under construction this would be an easy connection between Universal and MCO.

I know right now we're all in the wait and see phase but with groups like Mears supporting this I see the potential of it quickly expanding to become a excellent private transit system. That alone will help get Tallahassee to support it while locally public-private partnerships seem to going well with it thus far.

[aent]

Not sure if any of you are following the American Maglev group on Twitter. You need to. They seem to share a lot. I asked what they want after Phase 1. Oddly it wasn't the bottom part of the loop, instead they mentioned going East/West to UCF and Lake Nona. They also mentioned that they'd like to take it to Lakeland, Tampa and Clearwater.

Could this be a viable option for the HSR corridor?

Closer to home I really expect to see UOR link up to this. With the Wet n Wild property soon to be under construction this would be an easy connection between Universal and MCO.

I know right now we're all in the wait and see phase but with groups like Mears supporting this I see the potential of it quickly expanding to become a excellent private transit system. That alone will help get Tallahassee to support it while locally public-private partnerships seem to going well with it thus far.

I thought Lake Nona was always the phase 2? I wonder if they meant UCF COM or UCF main campus...