Sports in Charlotte

[ajfunder]

Biggest margin of victory in Panthers history! We have four winnable games after the bye to. Hopefully we can get hot in the next few weeks.

[ah59396]

Super Bowl...

[ah59396]

Random thoughts due to recent reading:

 

1.  The Tampa Bay Rays, despite making the playoffs (again, thanks Blue Jays....) will finish DEAD LAST in attendance this year...again (http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance).   This is fairly remarkable considering the issues in Miami and Houston (Houston recently garnered a 0.00 Nielsen rating for game in Houston).

 

2.  The owner has publicly stated that they were "hoping" to be 27th or 28th in attendance...that was their goal coming into the season.  Now they are stating this will definitely affect their payroll.  The payroll is currently 28th in baseball.  http://deadspin.com/rays-owner-says-terrible-attendance-will-affect-teams-1383429121

 

3.  The most telling quote from the article above (maybe it's hot air, but I doubt it) is from the Rays owner.

 

"Major League Baseball is going to vaporize this team. It could go on nine, 10, 12 more years. But between now and then, it's going to vaporize this team. Maybe a check gets written locally, maybe someone writes me a check. But it's going to get vaporized."

 

4.  Lastly, while this is just a blog, it gives some great stats on Charlotte as a potential MLB city.  http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/6/21/4452550/the-next-mlb-city-the-top-10

 

From the article, note:  " Charlotte is one of few metro areas that sits in a truly ideal location. Charlotte is 400 miles from Washington, D.C., 480 miles from Cincinnati, and 245 miles from Atlanta. Relatively speaking, in terms of baseball, Charlotte is out in the middle of nowhere."

 

"When run through the attendance simulator, an average team in Charlotte would draw an average of 29,380 fans per game."\

 

 

 

So the moral of all this is:  We have the Knights now, but 10 years from now could be a very different story.  Support the Knights, hard.  And we could very well be looking at a potential MLB team in Charlotte by the early 2020's, possibly sooner.

[cltbwimob]

Random thoughts due to recent reading:

 

1.  The Tampa Bay Rays, despite making the playoffs (again, thanks Blue Jays....) will finish DEAD LAST in attendance this year...again (http://espn.go.com/mlb/attendance).   This is fairly remarkable considering the issues in Miami and Houston (Houston recently garnered a 0.00 Nielsen rating for game in Houston).

 

2.  The owner has publicly stated that they were "hoping" to be 27th or 28th in attendance...that was their goal coming into the season.  Now they are stating this will definitely affect their payroll.  The payroll is currently 28th in baseball.  http://deadspin.com/rays-owner-says-terrible-attendance-will-affect-teams-1383429121

 

3.  The most telling quote from the article above (maybe it's hot air, but I doubt it) is from the Rays owner.

 

"Major League Baseball is going to vaporize this team. It could go on nine, 10, 12 more years. But between now and then, it's going to vaporize this team. Maybe a check gets written locally, maybe someone writes me a check. But it's going to get vaporized."

 

4.  Lastly, while this is just a blog, it gives some great stats on Charlotte as a potential MLB city.  http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2013/6/21/4452550/the-next-mlb-city-the-top-10

 

From the article, note:  " Charlotte is one of few metro areas that sits in a truly ideal location. Charlotte is 400 miles from Washington, D.C., 480 miles from Cincinnati, and 245 miles from Atlanta. Relatively speaking, in terms of baseball, Charlotte is out in the middle of nowhere."

 

"When run through the attendance simulator, an average team in Charlotte would draw an average of 29,380 fans per game."\

 

 

 

So the moral of all this is:  We have the Knights now, but 10 years from now could be a very different story.  Support the Knights, hard.  And we could very well be looking at a potential MLB team in Charlotte by the early 2020's, possibly sooner.

Maybe that cltbwimob guy really does understand MLB market dynamics.

[rugger62]

Maybe, maybe not. If we look at attendance in terms of population, that estimate of 29,380 fans per game puts us as the 4th most engaged market in MLB, behind 2 of the oldest franchises (Cincy and St Louis) and Milwaukee. Doubt that happens.

 

Here is a table comparing attendance figures with CSA/Metro populations:

 

Book1.pdf

Edited September 26, 2013 by rugger62

[cltbwimob]

Maybe, maybe not. If we look at attendance in terms of population, that estimate of 29,380 fans per game puts us as the 4th most engaged market in MLB, behind 2 of the oldest franchises (Cincy and St Louis) and Milwaukee. Doubt that happens.

 

Here is a table comparing attendance figures with CSA/Metro populations:

 

Book1.pdf

Are you suggesting that the Yankees have some of the least engaged fans in the league; they came in at 29th in the table?   Hell, under the pretenses of this stat, Tampa is one of the most engaged sports markets in the league, yet every other useful stat such as attendance, payroll, etc suggests otherwise.  

 

The Hornets were able to pull 24000 per game when the CSA was roughly 1.5 million people, the CSA has grown by 60% since then.  The Hornets like the hypothetical MLB team also was not a storied NBA tradition when it arrived, yet the Hornets led the league in attendance with 23k-24k fans per game.  Taking these two factors into account, I have chosen the attendance of  Hornets games versus market size circa 1995 to gauge interest for a hypothetical team that bursts onto the scene like the Hornets did.  I will then use that percentage to project hypothetical baseball attendance as a function of market size today.  (24000/1.5m= 1.6%) (1.6%* 2.45M=39,200 fans/game)  Based on the market interest during the old Hornets era one can conclude that Charlotte should see in excess of 39k fans per game on average.  While I imagine that this number exceeds the likely attendance of any hypothetical MLB team, it still implements a control that accounts for the specific market, as well as taking into account the fact that a market's history (or lack thereof) does not necessarily portend a teams success (or lack thereof).  Your table addresses neither of those.

 

My point is this, you can torture data enough to make up a stat to prove a point, yet that stat may be misleading.  And this one is, in every way, misleading.  It did nothing to address TV audience, approximate number of total fans, size of TV market, payroll, Gross Metropolitan Product, size limits of stadiums with respect to their individual market, summer versus winter seasons, other teams present, population of the 4 adjacent metropolitan areas, etc, etc, etc.  The statistic you are using is akin to saying something like "Player XXX will not be a successful batter in the Major Leagues because he has a .230 batting average with runners on second and third with an even count and 2 outs against left handed pitchers at the AAA level."  In other words, you are making a broad and sweeping statement about the Charlotte sports market on the basis of obscure, narrow-focus, and  made-up statistical evidence. 

 

I agree with ah59396, I do not think Charlotte will have a MLB team any time before 2020, however, if we show that we are a baseball city by supporting the Knights en masse, then sometime around c. 2020-2025 we may be able to make a strong case to prospective teams about our ability to support a team.  This is not to say I believe that we couldnt support a team right now, but rather, the availability is scarce. 

 

As a huge baseball fan, however, I do admire your use of obscure stats.

Edited September 26, 2013 by cltbwimob

[rugger62]

I agree with ah59396, I do not think Charlotte will have a MLB team any time before 2020, however, if we show that we are a baseball city by supporting the Knights en masse, then sometime around c. 2020-2025 we may be able to make a strong case to prospective teams about our ability to support a team.  This is not to say I believe that we couldnt support a team right now, but rather, the availability is scarce. 

 

As a huge baseball fan, however, I do admire your use of obscure stats.

 

Cutting down your post for readibility, but the only issue I'm trying to raise is that I think an estimate of almost 30,000 fans for MLB is Charlotte is agressive. If the Tampa franchise moved to Charlotte & we play the Yankees and Red Sox often, then maybe we do it because the representation of the transplants in our area, but I see us more like a 20,000-25,000 city.

[CltFlyer]

I agree that a mlb team is still 10+ years off, but i still think it would have been smart to pick a location that would have allowed BB&T to be expandable to 30,000 to 35,000 stadium, but still keep it uptown.   That way we won't have a build an entirely new ball park to have a mlb team.

[ah59396]

4-3.

 

Go Cam, go Panthers.  

[HopHead]

4-3.

 

Go Cam, go Panthers.  

 

Now 5-3... Next two weeks will tell us a lot about the Panthers. On the road this Sunday to play at San Francisco. Followed by Monday Night home game against New England.

[ah59396]

If we can go 1-1 during this stretch, I'd be content.  2-0?  I'll go nuts.

[Niner National]

I bought tickets for the MNF game last week. If we win Sunday, BoA will be NUTS that night. I took the whole day off so I could take full advantage of what has been a rare opportunity in Charlotte. We haven't hosted a MNF since 2009 and we haven't hosted a MNF in a game that mattered in even longer than that.

[ah59396]

Win city, USA.

 

Both the Cats and the Panthers are over .500!

 

 

YESSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[HopHead]

I bought tickets for the MNF game last week. If we win Sunday, BoA will be NUTS that night. I took the whole day off so I could take full advantage of what has been a rare opportunity in Charlotte. We haven't hosted a MNF since 2009 and we haven't hosted a MNF in a game that mattered in even longer than that.

 

Actually, the last time the Panthers "hosted" a MNF game was December 2008 against Tampa. This was the night that DeAngelo and J-Stew ran up and down the field on the Bucs. I was at that game. We drank all day. It was cold that night. We were packed in the stadium like sardines and the crowd was crazy. Definitely one of, if not the best football game I've attended in person. And this includes college games, which I'm a slightly bigger fan of. That MNF game against New England should be fun!

 

Panthers have a played on a few MNF road games since then. Also had that SNF home game against Minnesota where they shut down Brett Favre back in 2009.

Edited November 7, 2013 by wend28

[Guest]

For the first time in 8 years and 2 days both the Bobcats and Panthers are over .500. GO CATS!!!!!!!!

[MilZ]

Win streaks galore! And the Bobcats are doing it without $ Jefferson.  Hopefully he can get healthy and make us better.

[Guest]

Win streaks galore! And the Bobcats are doing it without $ Jefferson.  Hopefully he can get healthy and make us better.

I realize the Bobcats started out 7-4 last year and then lost 18 in a row, but this is clearly a different team. They play defense, they keep the ball moving. McBob is a stud, Sessions is healthy, Biz is playing fantastic D, Kemba is unstoppable, and Taylor and MKG have taken a step in the right direction. We won't make the playoffs, but we are certainly entertaining.

I was disappointed that the fan showing was so dismal for game 2, especially after a near sellout Game 1, but we always have problems selling out Wednesday games. Its still more than last year would have been, and WAY more than the pelicans away game where they had 7k ticket sales, but come on people, its an entertaining product worth paying for.

[HopHead]

I realize the Bobcats started out 7-4 last year and then lost 18 in a row, but this is clearly a different team. They play defense, they keep the ball moving. McBob is a stud, Sessions is healthy, Biz is playing fantastic D, Kemba is unstoppable, and Taylor and MKG have taken a step in the right direction. We won't make the playoffs, but we are certainly entertaining.

I was disappointed that the fan showing was so dismal for game 2, especially after a near sellout Game 1, but we always have problems selling out Wednesday games. Its still more than last year would have been, and WAY more than the pelicans away game where they had 7k ticket sales, but come on people, its an entertaining product worth paying for.

 

I've been a STH for 5 years now. For whatever reason, the 2nd game every year is almost always a dud in terms of fan support. Despite a sellout (or near sellout) for the opener. I never read too much into it because it's November. People are still focused on football (even though it's Wed) and throw in the fact there is a lot more going on in Charlotte now than there was 10 years ago. Also, no one has any idea how good this team really is since this is the 3rd head coach in as many years. We were all on the Mike Dunlap bandwagon early on last year and then the wheels quickly came off. But I agree, this looks like a much better squad. Biz has come a long way already especially. Patrick Ewing has had an obvious impact on his game. I think Kemba has a chance to be an All Star this year as well.

Edited November 7, 2013 by wend28

[Guest]

I've been a STH for 5 years now. For whatever reason, the 2nd game every year is almost always a dud in terms of fan support. Despite a sellout (or near sellout) for the opener. I never read too much into it because it's November. People are still focused on football (even though it's Wed) and throw in the fact there is a lot more going on in Charlotte now than there was 10 years ago. Also, no one has any idea how good this team really is since this is the 3rd head coach in as many years. We were all on the Mike Dunlap bandwagon early on last year and then the wheels quickly came off. But I agree, this looks like a much better squad. Biz has come a long way already especially. Patrick Ewing has had an obvious impact on his game. I think Kemba has a chance to be an All Star this year as well.

Apparently I'm old (28 is old?) but wtf is "STH"

[MilZ]

Apparently I'm old (28 is old?) but wtf is "STH"

season ticket holder

[Guest]

 I think Kemba has a chance to be an All Star this year as well.

A strong squad of guards in the east are going to make that very difficult. We will have to win a bunch of games for him to be in consideration. 

season ticket holder

Damn I'm stupid.

[HopHead]

A strong squad of guards in the east are going to make that very difficult. We will have to win a bunch of games for him to be in consideration. 

Damn I'm stupid.

 

That's why I said he has a "chance" at being an All-Star, not "will"

 

I'm way older than you, how do you not know what STH is? Do we have to explain LOL too? 

[MilZ]

 

Damn I'm stupid.

No, it just takes a JDI to recognize a STH.

 

Edit: NVM, Star Wars references have no place on a sports board. Apologies.

Edited November 7, 2013 by MilZ

[ah59396]

No, it just takes a JDI to recognize a STH.

 

Edit: NVM, Star Wars references have no place on a sports board. Apologies.

 

 

These aren't the posts you're looking for

[Guest]

That's why I said he has a "chance" at being an All-Star, not "will"

 

I'm way older than you, how do you not know what STH is? Do we have to explain LOL too? 

Very tired, went to the Knicks v. Bobcats game (where fans kept buying me beers because my wife and I were decked out in Hornets gear. Then went out last night for bobcats raptors and had a few too many beers. :-) Killed too many braincells this week, specifically in the Abbreviation part of my brain, LAUGH OUT LOUD (I think theres an abbreviation for that one)

Edited November 7, 2013 by Guest