Skyhouse Apartments

[InitialD]

Skyhouse as seen from atop Citrix:

[Jones_]

And here I thought $2/sqft was saturated for Raleigh and these guys push it almost to $2.50.....

I hereby predict downtown apartment building stops for 5 years once those under construction are done. 

Edit: They don't all come in that high but jeez....$1400 a month studios seem like a NYC thing not DTR...

[RALNATIVE]

it's basic economics called supply and demand.

 

For cities like Raleigh, the demand will be strong for some time to come. I'm more concerned about the supply. If the economy goes south, the rental sector is usually among the hardest hit. This can also have a major negative ripple effect on surrounding businesses.

[Jones_]

Believe me I had more economics than I ever cared to take for an engineering degree. Whether we are fretting over or supply or demand, the result is too many vacancies at the price points being offered. The media and the developers will cry that the sky (ha, wasn't meant to be a pun at first...) is falling and construction will cease across the board. Where are the 3 story, 6 unit buildings with a single ground floor commercial space? Oh right...these aren't big enough to keep the REIT investors happy. Well, those size units, on small enough lots on the edge of downtown, would likely result in rents where there is more demand. 

[RALNATIVE]

The good thing about apartments is that the owners can easily raise and lower rent prices according to the current market. The bad thing is that if price points fall to low, businesses in the area and the entire surrounding area will feel the effects.

[midtownclt]

Novare looks to be hosting a demolition party in Uptown Charlotte today

(to clear a motel) for another Skyhouse building to be constructed next

to the one still under construction - I guess they will be twin towers!

[RALNATIVE]

Novare looks to be hosting a demolition party in Uptown Charlotte today

(to clear a motel) for another Skyhouse building to be constructed next

to the one still under construction - I guess they will be twin towers!

 

and???

[MireLanski]

Was that "and???" necessary?

[Euphorius]

What does a demolition party in a city over 100 miles away from Raleigh have to do with Raleigh's Skyhouse? So there will be two Skyhouse towers in Charlotte. Great. The block Raleigh's Skyhouse is on has a huge parking deck with ground floor retail, another apartment building under construction with nearly 20k sq ft of retail space and an office tower that should be starting construction soon.

[midtownclt]

They are both Skyhouse projects by Novare Group.  That is the relationship!  The fact they are planning a 3rd tower

in NC says a lot for our state's economy, and perhaps a 4th could follow in the Triangle of Triad.  I have enjoyed watching

the progress of the Raleigh Skyhouse followed by the Charlotte Skyhouse.  They are nice projects and I have seen them

in other cities while travelling.  I am fully aware of the development taking place around the Raleigh Skyhouse as I pass

by it and watch as it progresses.  I also read the posts here on UP - but thanks for your summary. 

[RALNATIVE]

Apparently posters from Charlotte get the need to emphasize how "great" Charlotte is every time they start feeling insecure about their city. Something unflattering must have happened there recently or they are simply jealous of the progress being made in Raleigh.

 

No one in Raleigh cares about how may Skyhouses get built in Charlotte.

[midtownclt]

Anything in NC is good for all of NC!  When I was a resident of Cary I was as interested in any potential project

in NC and now that I happen to live in Charlotte, I still follow all potential skyscraper projects. I am a skyscraper

enthusiast.  I am not in the development or real estate business at all. I am in healthcare and have nothing

more to gain other than seeing NC cities grow.  As NC moves from rural to more urban, all of NC's

cities will need each other to persuade the legislature to provide for the needs of the cities - such as roads.

Over the past several years Raleigh and Charlotte combined have accounted half of the states growth  - 2 of the

fastest in the countries.  If the cities do not work together neither will be "great".  I see Charlotte similar to where

Atlanta was years ago as I see Raleigh similar to Charlotte.  We are all growing and there is always going to be a

bigger and "greater" city out there.  We all choose to live in cities we think are "great" places, otherwise why

would we choose to live there?

[Spatula]

Would be nice if we got a second one too... maybe in Glenwood South? And a third in Durham.

 

But no... that's not gonna happen. We can't have nice things.

[Spatula]

And I don't think the response to Charlotte getting nice things is to lambast it either. They're in NC, and what's good for them is good for us. Charlotte's the bigger city, and in many ways it has an amount of development downtown that I envy. I also envy that developers in Charlotte actually support its downtown.

 

Meanwhile we've got Kane Associates avoiding downtown Raleigh at all costs. Building 40-floor towers out in the suburbs. We've got First Citizens with its regional headquarters in North Hills, avoiding downtown at all costs as well--and they demolished the historic structures on all the plots they owned on their way out as a final parting 'fudge you'.

 

Of course both cities still have the overwhelming majority of new developments occurring in the suburbs, even now. And those developments largely are characterless subdivisions that make even the sprawl of the 90s look charming with their bleakness.

[Jones_]

I wouldn't want more than one. It's unsheathed concrete column design will be the sort of thing that gets looked back on with some derision since it basically qualifies as brutalist. IF Raleigh could support another (which i predicted it definitely will not in under 5 years),  its brutalist design would seem to mesh better in the warehouse district, like say replacing the Civitas building or any of the several parking lots still there. 

[NCMike1981]

Would be nice if we got a second one too... maybe in Glenwood South? And a third in Durham.

 

But no... that's not gonna happen. We can't have nice things.

Skyhouse would actually make quite an impact on the Durham skyline whereas in Raleigh the building sort of blends in with it's surroundings...of course if there were another Skyhouse built so close to Raleigh I'd hope they would at least make it a different color or something LOL

 

Oh and when I say blends in in Raleigh I don't mean that it's like hidden or anything, it just seems to be about the same height as all but 3 of the towers in downtown :-p

[Green_man]

Their parking garage designs I've seen on the webcams from other cities are the ugliest things I have ever seen.  If we had not already had the Edison garage and they were in charge of building their own, I'm not sure I would've even wanted a Skyhouse.  I think out of all of their developments, the one in Raleigh is the only one that seems to blend in with the city.  If the 2nd one in Charlotte is going to hide that garage then good on them too.  If not, fail.  If they have to build another garage for the 2nd one, double fail.

[HopHead]

I agree that the Skyhouses are definitely rather bland, but they have a model that works well it seems. Quick build out of a highrise and living space that appeals to millennials that want some city life. The parking decks in Atlanta (Buckhead) and the one they are putting up in Houston (I think it's the 2nd one now) appear to be the worst of the bunch by looking at the cameras. The one in Charlotte will be partially underground and shielded by the 2nd one and if they add the office component on the other side of the block. The parking deck for the one in Raleigh was existing, correct? That seems like it will be shielded pretty well too by what ever is going up on the other side and Skyhouse. 

[Guest]

I agree that the Skyhouses are definitely rather bland, but they have a model that works well it seems. Quick build out of a highrise and living space that appeals to millennials that want some city life. The parking decks in Atlanta (Buckhead) and the one they are putting up in Houston (I think it's the 2nd one now) appear to be the worst of the bunch by looking at the cameras. The one in Charlotte will be partially underground and shielded by the 2nd one and if they add the office component on the other side of the block. The parking deck for the one in Raleigh was existing, correct? That seems like it will be shielded pretty well too by what ever is going up on the other side and Skyhouse. 

I also feel that Skyhouses are rather bland, but I feel Charlottes will be a definite net positive. Instead of adding a second parking deck for Skyhouse, they dug two floors down for subterranean parking and then expanded the parking deck about 65 feet towards 8th street. They also included enough spaces for Office and Retail in the parking deck. There will be a 250k-400k office tower, a 45k square foot super market and 30k retail facing Church street. a large chunk of the retail is on the base of the parking deck, which will definitely help its impact. If Charlotte's Skyhouse project had been oriented towards Tryon, I would have been more put off by it, but since its on a lesser street, I don't mind it. 

Raleigh's SkyHouse wins for location, at least for now. Skyhouse in Raleigh is in a prime area for activity, Charlotte's is in a area that has seen better days, and had its boom 20 years ago. South Tryon took that momentum, and Skyhouse represents the first attempt at creating an equilibrium between the two districts. 

Anyways, enough of that, back to Raleigh.

[Jones_]

The parking deck for the one in Raleigh was existing, correct? 

While technically pre-existing, it was built by the City in support of the original Edison project which of course has since been scaled back to Skyhouse et.el. This ensured the City got what it wanted which was an interior-block deck capped by retail space on each end. 

[Guest]

While technically pre-existing, it was built by the City in support of the original Edison project which of course has since been scaled back to Skyhouse et.el. This ensured the City got what it wanted which was an interior-block deck capped by retail space on each end. 

Excellent choice by the city. Raleigh is definitely doing it right when it comes to controlling development.

[Jones_]

Excellent choice by the city. Raleigh is definitely doing it right when it comes to controlling development.

It really is a nice crafty thing they do...shaves off some needed financial capacity for the owner (which can then be fully aimed at the other parts of a project), supports other development downtown, and allows, as you said, the City to control the form of the structure with ease. Parking decks all eventually pay for themselves too so its not like the City can be accused of wasting tax payer money, and I think all of the recent ones were done with TIFs anyway so tax increments and gate receipts both pay the thing off in theory. (I assume TIF projects must demonstrate somehow that a tax increment increase is being directed at the bonds but am not sure what the accounting looks like). 

[Euphorius]

I wasn't lambasting Charlotte's second Skyhouse. I was merely pointing out that this is the Raleigh Skyhouse thread. A demolition party for another Skyhouse in Charlotte did not warrant posting about it in the Raleigh thread. It's been posted about numerous times in the Charlotte section. We aren't getting a second Skyhouse that we know of. What Charlotte gets is great for Charlotte, but one residential building in a city over 100 miles away has nothing to do with Raleigh. What was the point of the post? Midtownclt didn't even mention the Raleigh Skyhouse in his/her post. It was strictly about Charlotte, and didn't belong in this thread.

[RALNATIVE]

I agree with Euphorius. That post was not meant to highlight Novare's interest in expanding the Skyhouse brand in NC, it was simply a childish post by someone hoping to annoy posters by indicating that Charlotte is getting something that Raleigh isn't.

 

I'm seeing more and more of this behavior happening on other boards as well, which leads me to believe that some in the queen city may have a bit of an inferiority complex.

[plus2]

If I were King, I'd prefer a second Skyhouse to the Edison Apartments. 

 

If the economics work for Skyhouse developers, why not for Sandreuter?