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Charlotte Bike / Scooter Sharing


kermit

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Found a charged scooter for the first time today. Somewhat my fault, but since it was on a whim I did't really pay any mind to the fees. I knew vaguely that it costs a dollar to unlock, and for some reason I was under the impression that the 15 cent charge was per mile, not per minute. I didn't really keep track of the time I was taking and used the "pause ride" feature to grab a bite to eat (should have been a sign that it was per min, not per mile, but oh well) long story short, my total ended up being nearly 14 dollars. Once again, when it comes down to it, my fault, BUT considering most people can have hours worth of fun on the bikes for pocket change, being slapped with a 14 dollar bill for a cruise up and down the rail trail was a shock to say the least. 

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1 hour ago, nakers2 said:

Found a charged scooter for the first time today. Somewhat my fault, but since it was on a whim I did't really pay any mind to the fees. I knew vaguely that it costs a dollar to unlock, and for some reason I was under the impression that the 15 cent charge was per mile, not per minute. I didn't really keep track of the time I was taking and used the "pause ride" feature to grab a bite to eat (should have been a sign that it was per min, not per mile, but oh well) long story short, my total ended up being nearly 14 dollars. Once again, when it comes down to it, my fault, BUT considering most people can have hours worth of fun on the bikes for pocket change, being slapped with a 14 dollar bill for a cruise up and down the rail trail was a shock to say the least. 

Scooters are better suited to travel a short distance quickly without a car.

We took scooters from the Levine museum to a condo near i77 within uptown. Took like 15 mins with stopping for lights and cost 3 dollars.

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17 hours ago, Nick2 said:

Scooters are better suited to travel a short distance quickly without a car.

We took scooters from the Levine museum to a condo near i77 within uptown. Took like 15 mins with stopping for lights and cost 3 dollars.

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying from a customer service standpoint, a long ride on a scooter is considerably more expensive than one on a bike. I know that Lime doesn't keep it a secret, but it's easily missed on the app. 

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59 minutes ago, nakers2 said:

I'm not disagreeing, I'm just saying from a customer service standpoint, a long ride on a scooter is considerably more expensive than one on a bike. I know that Lime doesn't keep it a secret, but it's easily missed on the app. 

Oh yeah definitely. I was pretty confused when I first downloaded the app. It's not like they're hiding it but they don't make it really easily understood.

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This morning I saw a man unload a whole bunch of scooters from the back of a van onto the sidewalk along Tryon Street.  He's what you call a "birdhunter", someone who drives around searching for scooters low on battery, recharges them overnight, and drops them off.

What do people think about the charging process?  Don't you think it's inefficient?  Is it alright for Lime to claim that all this CO2 gets saved every ride when "birdhunters" are driving their gas-powered vehichles around the city in search of scooters to charge?

Edited by ChessieCat
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1 hour ago, ChessieCat said:

This morning I saw a man unload a whole bunch of scooters from the back of a van onto the sidewalk along Tryon Street.  He's what you call a "birdhunter", someone who drives around searching for scooters low on battery, recharges them overnight, and drops them off.

What do people think about the charging process?  Don't you think it's inefficient?  Is it alright for Lime to claim that all this CO2 gets saved every ride when "birdhunters" are driving their gas-powered vehichles around the city in search of scooters to charge?

Bird seems to pay chargers good enough money that plenty of people want to do it. Their charger propaganda says that it takes about 5 cents of electricity to charge each scooter.

The net carbon question is trickier, but I suspect that the scooters are a net benefit. IIRC the largest carbon output from internal combustion occurs when the vehicle is started, so replacing many short trips (scooter riders who would have otherwise driven)  with one longer one (the charger pickup) should be beneficial.

If the city really wanted to reduce carbon outputs (and they say they do), they would provide marked parking spaces for scooters which include induction chargers to eliminate some of these charger route miles.

#notanexpert

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2 minutes ago, kermit said:

If the city really wanted to reduce carbon outputs (and they say they do), they would provide marked parking spaces for scooters which include induction chargers to eliminate some of these charger route miles.

That's a great idea and presumably the scooter companies would subsidize that (since it would eliminate the need to pay people to do this).  Sounds like the future.

On another note, we have auditors visiting from LA and Sarasota this week.  They think the scooters are the coolest thing ever (they weren't aware of them elsewhere, even though they are big in Santa Monica).

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^I was thinking the same, 

1 hour ago, kermit said:

If the city really wanted to reduce carbon outputs (and they say they do), they would provide marked parking spaces for scooters which include induction chargers to eliminate some of these charger route miles.

 

^Thanks Kermit, I was thinking the same thing.  Is it safe to say that the next generation of scooters and e-bikes will be wireless?  If so, could the following happen...?

1) Riders would be incentivized (discount on your ride) to return the scooter/e-bike to a wirless charging station instead of just leaving it on the sidewalk 

2) If the discount doesn't motivate you, "Birdhunters" would be incentivized to return them to designated induction charging stations instead of driving their cars around and charging them at home

3) BUILDING CODES: doesn't it seem inevitable that future apartment complexes, high-rise buildings, supermarkets, strip malls, etc. would have wireless charging stations built into their concourses to get rid of the clutter problem?  Instead of dumping the scooter/e-bike on the sidewalk next to your apartment and/or place of work you simply leave it at a built-in charging station.  It would assist with the Last Mile Problem too

 

 

 

Edited by ChessieCat
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I'm assuming we are just going to treat this thread as scooters included.

Here's an article about scooters and what some cities are doing about them. Its vox but that just means it's  becoming mainstream to me.

https://www.vox.com/platform/amp/2018/8/27/17676670/electric-scooter-rental-bird-lime-skip-spin-cities

Apparently the west coast is having issues with there being simply too many of them. Perhaps these electric scooters are better suited for cities like Charlotte and it's population density. Having a scooter available nearby and being able to take it a mile down the road for a modest price would be more desirable to me than driving since you don't have to worry about parking or traffic. For more dense cities with developed transit systems in place, perhaps they are more of a hassle than useful.

I think these scooters could also really help boost blue line ridership. People who live more than a mile away would most likely not want to walk because not only do they have to wait on the train but add on a 15+ min walk. So driving would probably be faster in the long run not to mention more preferable in the heat of the six months of summer. Having a much faster and convenient form of moving to the stations should help convince some people to use rail. Especially if there are more scooters waiting at the destination station for use to get to your final arriving destination.

In fact, I think the city should look into adding charging areas for the scooters at the stations to encourage usage like this.

Thoughts? Are they good for clt or more of a nuisance?

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So this make a ton of sense. The city has, at no expense, found a system that substantially improves its residents mobility, encourages walking and densification and brings the city closer to its carbon-free goal.  Its a system that has killed no one (while cars kill dozens if not hundreds), yet the city still feels the need to regulate it.

Big middle finger to Larken because of his fear-based call for regulation.

 

 

Edited by kermit
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Tangentially related, Duke Energy put out a directive last week that employees are prohibited from riding bikeshare/scooters on company time:

"

Rental bicycles and E-scooters are now available for rent in many major cities, including some of the cities where Duke Energy has offices. These items can be tempting to use as a fun, fast means of getting from one location to another, however, there is also a tremendous amount of risk associated with operating them.

 As always, safety is of the utmost importance in all we do – and moving from place to place is no exception. While working within the scope of your employment with Duke Energy, no rental bicycles or scooters should be used.  Not only do these items introduce unnecessary risk of injury, any incidents related to their use on company time could be considered a work-related injury.   

.

.

[edited out safety tips for riding on your own time]

.

.

Even though riding a scooter/bicycle in our busy cities while on company time is prohibited, avoiding use doesn’t fully prevent other risks of injury.  Whether you’re walking, riding a bike or driving a car, be on the lookout for more people using rental bicycles and e-scooters.  They can present new hazards for drivers, riders and pedestrians alike, especially as accessibility increases and the instances of bicycles and scooters zooming past unexpectedly become more frequent.  

"

 

 

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Are there legal ramifications to the city allowing Bird/Lime scooters to operate with little oversight?  I wondered if all the worry regarding their safety and unregulated status is more of a CYA from the city getting sued in the event someone were to be seriously injured or die in an accident.

Unfortunately someone recently died in Cleveland where a user of a scooter operating in the street was ran into by someone who had just snorted heroin and decided to drive.

https://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2018/08/man_snorted_heroin_before_kill.html

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^ I can’t imagine that the city”s liability would be any different than it would be for rental cars (something the city isn’t at all worried about). Why would a rented scooter pose a greater liability risk than a personally owned one?

(the rental  agreement that is “signed” before your first ride requires you to be over 18 and have a drivers license)

Edited by kermit
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2 hours ago, kermit said:

^ I can’t imagine that the city”s liability would be any different than it would be for rental cars (something the city isn’t at all worried about). Why would a rented scooter pose a greater liability risk than a personally owned one?

(the rental  agreement that is “signed” before your first ride requires you to be over 18 and have a drivers license)

No clue I was just trying to understand the reason they're being targeted more than other modes of transit that you can equally injure/kill yourself if done negligently.

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19 minutes ago, SouthEndCLT811 said:

No clue I was just trying to understand the reason they're being targeted more than other modes of transit that you can equally injure/kill yourself if done negligently.

Probably because it looks more risky.   People flying around on vehicles without protection and limited attention to their surroundings is unsettling to watch.

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^ yea, I can appreciate that. But it cant be any more risky that biking (perhaps less so since you are standing) and (if cars drivers behave appropriately) its gonna be impossible to get into a fatal incident. A crash at 15mph is rarely severe (unless someone steers a 2 ton metal box into you).

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^The city allowed Bird and Lime to increase their quota to 400 each from 300 which is good news*.  However the enitre Dockless permit ends in November and that includes both bikes and scooters.  The city can extend it by a few months but a permanent permit for lack of a better term will eventually be required. The city likes what it sees so far but wants coverage for the ENTIRE city, not just in uptown/SouthEnd/NoDa.  So negotiations will continue...

If all the scooters/bikes were taken away you would hear the howling from all the breweries/business along the Rail Trail for example. 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/latest-news/article217290350.html

*the fact that Spin didn't even launch a single scooter despite being one of the 3 winners has something to do with it

Edited by ChessieCat
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9 minutes ago, Matthew.Brendan said:

What is the best way to tell the City that we love these and hope to see them continued / expanded?

Lime and Bird have PR machines in case their licenses get revoked.  See what happened in Santa Barbara:

https://losangeles.cbslocal.com/video/3917192-companies-not-chosen-by-santa-monica-protest-by-shutting-down-scooters/

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I saw another Light Rail rider with a scooter yesterday.   For whatever reason I find that hilarious. 

Anyway, I work uptown so I'm well aware of scooter-mania, but we were at Sycamore a couple Sundays ago at 4pm, and I was *stunned* by the constant turnover of scooters arriving and departing via the rail trail.

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18 minutes ago, SgtCampsalot said:

But also, what kind of regulations could the city realistically have? You can't restrict HOW people ride, so would they just limit the hours of the day scooters are available, or the amount of scooters companies are allowed to have active?

Riding them in the street against traffic seems like something that should/could be forbidden

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3 hours ago, Desert Power said:

Riding them in the street against traffic seems like something that should/could be forbidden

Isnt it already?

edit: in response to Eggleston’s fear-driven call for regulation, bikes, mopeds, skateboards, horse carts, pedestrians, etc. are all prohibited on 277 (and any interstate signed road). Does he really think scooters exist in some special regulatory loophole? 

Edited by kermit
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