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nashwatcher

What will follow all the hotels in SOBRO

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I'm curious anyone's opinion concerning how you think SOBRO, and particularly south of KVB will develop in the next few years...

We've got lots of hotels and a big convention center now, do you think office space will follow? Residential? Or some other type of development?

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Honestly I am hoping for office and mixed use space. But I don't think it needs to be massive towers. I think 7-13 story developments will work.

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I think it will be more residential based, but that is just a gut feeling. Nothing to back it up :P.

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I think residential will be the most common development throughout the core.

But I'm going to go out on a limb and say there will be some sort of retail development in SoBro in the not so far future. With more residents and more hotel guests in the area, the need for shopping will come with that.

I could see some sort of dedicated retail development being successful on KVB near the roundabout (especially if they build a pedestrian connector to The Gulch).

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Great question. The bottom line is we will need buildings in the five- to seven-story range with a mixture of uses (retail-residential and retail-office). A few falls (15 to 25 stories) can punctuate this density.

WW

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My hope is for some sort of "Hill Center Development" like the one in Green Hills...there's plenty of underutilized land south of KVB...a Whole Foods with retail all around would draw people from the Gulch, East Nashville, and would be a great "go to" location for tourists and convention goers...

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My hope is for some sort of "Hill Center Development" like the one in Green Hills...there's plenty of underutilized land south of KVB...a Whole Foods with retail all around would draw people from the Gulch, East Nashville, and would be a great "go to" location for tourists and convention goers...

We definitely won't be seeing a Whole Foods there any time soon, what with the proximity of the one in Green Hills. They seem to be pretty conservative with their expansion, so the one in Green Hills will have to be at-capacity before they move to the Gulch. Honestly, I'm surprised that we've had two in the area in the time period it has happened (Green Hills and Franklin). Heck, here in Philadelphia, there are only a handful. Four that I know if in the affluent suburbs (two small ones, two newer large ones), and one in the city. And that's a LOT more density than Nashville has right now. East Nashville would be a better bet for a third Whole Foods in the Nashville area, though, if they decide to expand operations. Up and coming area with a high population of people who are their target demographic that is somewhat separated from their existing store on the south side of town.

A Trader Joes, Fresh Market or the like though, may be more likely to put a store in there. It would be a huge boon to new residents to be within walking distance of a full service or near-full-service grocery store or supermarket.

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I chanced across this appalling statement in article which seems to be from 2010 when the convention center was approved:

Music City Center expansion space

Planned for the blocks between Fifth and Sixth Avenues south of KVB stretching roughly to Peabody Street. "But what happens to that land before it's needed — if it's needed — in the next 20 years?" asks Seab Tuck, a member of the convention center design team. "Owners will be inclined to just sit on their property or do tear-downs for surface parking," thus reducing their property taxes. "That's not a good scenario for growth in SoBro."

Is this still true? This would seem to be exactly where you would want development to spread first. The new KVB is just screaming to be lined with a mid-rise wall across from the MCC, I see it like those active streets in parts of Washington DC with hotels and restaurants and whatnot.

I wouldn't mind seeing SoBro turn into Foggy Bottom. Look at the width of that sidewalk!

FoggyBottom1.jpg

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if metro is going to buy this property in 15-20 years for convention space expansion, why not purchase it now...turn it into a nice park for convention goers, those living downtown, etc...the properties around the park will be more likey to develop in the next two decades if it's done really well and is a draw...and then you have the land in two decades when it's needed for expansion...plus you don't have to deal with a hotel acquiring the property, making expansion almost impossible...

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if metro is going to buy this property in 15-20 years for convention space expansion, why not purchase it now...turn it into a nice park for convention goers, those living downtown, etc...the properties around the park will be more likey to develop in the next two decades if it's done really well and is a draw...and then you have the land in two decades when it's needed for expansion...plus you don't have to deal with a hotel acquiring the property, making expansion almost impossible...

I actually like this idea a lot. A nice park or green space in this part of town will be a boon for those living nearby in addition to the benefits you listed.

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More hotels will follow. From NBJ:

"Hearing Bridges has sold its SoBro property, a site that has been drawing interest from hotel developers, for $2.75 million.

Pinnacle 4th and Peabody LLC paid nearly $78 per foot for the 0.81-acre site at 415 Fourth Ave. S. and 422 Fifth Ave. S. in downtown Nashville, according to Davidson County property records. The property includes a 15,000-square-foot office building and a 6,000-square-foot garage"

http://www.bizjourna...-sells-for.html

EDIT 2: This has to be a blockbuster hotel for that location.

Edited by dmillsphoto

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I would not expect something nice here. Looking at the developer's website leaves a lot to be desired to say the least. http://phphotels.com/pinnacle-1.html

It is kind of dissapppointing to say the least that we spent hundreds of millions on this convention center with the promise of auxiliary jobs and we have 1 nice hotel that the city has given subsidies to and then a bunch of suburban crap that does not raise the bar at all

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I would not expect something nice here. Looking at the developer's website leaves a lot to be desired to say the least. http://phphotels.com/pinnacle-1.html

It is kind of dissapppointing to say the least that we spent hundreds of millions on this convention center with the promise of auxiliary jobs and we have 1 nice hotel that the city has given subsidies to and then a bunch of suburban crap that does not raise the bar at all

Patience....

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I definitely have hope that some better paying jobs will come, Producer2. I also retain some semblance of hope that these hotel operators that are used to operating in suburban environments would build something slightly nicer than what they are accustomed to.

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I would not expect something nice here. Looking at the developer's website leaves a lot to be desired to say the least. http://phphotels.com/pinnacle-1.html

It is kind of dissapppointing to say the least that we spent hundreds of millions on this convention center with the promise of auxiliary jobs and we have 1 nice hotel that the city has given subsidies to and then a bunch of suburban crap that does not raise the bar at all

I agree. The Best Western Downtown is absolutely atrocious and needs to be condemned. When I was at the Sheraton, guests would check in at the BWD, and immediately check out and come to our place. One guest said when he checked in, a large rat was on his bed. He ran out, demanded his deposit back and came over to us. At least at the Sheraton, the rats were hidden.

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I agree. The Best Western Downtown is absolutely atrocious and needs to be condemned. When I was at the Sheraton, guests would check in at the BWD, and immediately check out and come to our place. One guest said when he checked in, a large rat was on his bed. He ran out, demanded his deposit back and came over to us. At least at the Sheraton, the rats were hidden.

I demand that my rats be dressed in little bell hop uniforms. Only the Hermitage does that.

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I agree. The Best Western Downtown is absolutely atrocious and needs to be condemned. When I was at the Sheraton, guests would check in at the BWD, and immediately check out and come to our place. One guest said when he checked in, a large rat was on his bed. He ran out, demanded his deposit back and came over to us. At least at the Sheraton, the rats were hidden.

You can always turn a negative into a positive.

Just say the rats are imported from NYC. :thumbsup:

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I just tried to email them on their website and ironically, their email server is down! I guess if they operate crap like the Best Western Downtown, they are not capable enough to have an updated website and email server.

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Just spoke to WW, and he told me he has called the developer to get an interview. Since Sobro is a redevelopment district, there are certain design elements that have to be used:

1) No drivet or stucco

2) No stick frame

3) Must be a multi-story building

4) Must contain steel, glass, brick, concrete , marble etc.

The MDHA design Review Committee must approve the design for him to move even a teaspoon of dirt. At this point he only bought some land. There are no plans for a hotel and no rendering at this point. According to WW he is quite young and did not build any buildings listed on the website. At this point, he has only purchased a few properties. Who knows, he may redevelop properties he already owns first. This may be just a land purchase for the time being.

Let's keep cool heads here, but WW told me he is going to talk with him and let him know the concerns we have with the design.

We can be a powerful group if we act professional and act as truly concerned citizens about our built environment.

I hope this info helps. William thinks this guy may be one who "gets it" and has no intention of building crap.

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Friends,

BlueRaider 86 is correct. I did call. Waiting to here back. The man is part of a five-person team. Not sure if the company has actually developed hotels (may simply have bought existing properties) in the past. Obviously, the hotels PHP owns are not architecturally attractive. But we must hope (assuming PHP develops a hotel, intentions for which it has not announced) MDHA will hold the company to a higher design standard than its existing properties show.

WW

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Friends,

BlueRaider 86 is correct. I did call. Waiting to here back. The man is part of a five-person team. Not sure if the company has actually developed hotels (may simply have bought existing properties) in the past. Obviously, the hotels PHP owns are not architecturally attractive. But we must hope (assuming PHP develops a hotel, intentions for which it has not announced) MDHA will hold the company to a higher design standard than its existing properties show.

WW

That was my thought. Their hotels are mainly older suburban properties (with the exception of the Worst Western downtown). I would imagine they didn't build most of those. Perhaps they were starting small and acquiring what they could, and now they are looking to start developing their own properties.

I would think that on the low end, we should expect something like the Hampton that is close to that site. Hopefully we'll be surprised with something a little more substantial.

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I would take a building on the same level of quality (form and function) of the downtown Hampton. But I do hope PHP (assuming they develop and I have no reason to think they won't) does something a bit more eye-catching.

WW

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Would be very nice to see Peabody Street and Lea Avenue realigned to run parallel to the new Veterans Boulevard. I mean now, while they're doing all that SoBro planning and studying (NOW!!!). That could be done now fairly easily without having to demolish a building (maybe one at Lea and 5th), but that would require planning on Metro's part, and we all know that those numbskulls don't even get an idea until it's too late to do anything about it. Typically, they'll wait until buildings are built so close to the street that they either cannot buy the rights of way or they'll be so expensive to buy and demolish buildings. At the very least, rezoning along those streets should require setbacks to allow for future street realignment and wide sidewalks. But alas... I seriously doubt that's even required.

Edited by MLBrumby

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Could not agree more. William and I were talking about this earlier in the summer. There is going to be a lot more traffic on the back streets and these need to be expanded for sure.

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