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BrandonTO416

Where does the south end/begin?

Where is your line?  

182 members have voted

  1. 1. Where is your line?

    • Pennsylvania, Southern Ohio, St Louis
      26
    • South of DC, Ohio River
      92
    • Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina
      48
    • Other
      16


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Where does the south end and begin exactly? Obviously its not a line you can draw on a map - but I personally think the DC metro is relatively northern - but immediately south is southern. Through West Virginia to the Ohio River - then including southern Missouri and Oklahoma. That's my definition of the line dividing the south and the other parts of the country.

Obviously I voted south of DC, Ohio River.

Each section has its own characteristics - there's the upper coastal south in the Carolinas and Virginia, the Appalachian south (Kentucky, Tennessee, Western NC and VA, North Georgia/Atlanta), the coastal plains south (Mississippi plantation style, Southern Georgia and Alabama), then there is the pirarie south - places like southern Illinois, Oklahoma, Mississippi Valley areas like Memphis, and last but not least - southwestern south. Texas takes the cake....

Some of the divisional cities include Cincinnati - a city that is very divided. The Kentucky side is quite typically southern, the Ohio side is very catholic and a bit different. Louisville is a dividing line as well, a midwestern southern city you could say. Nashville is very southern, but Nashville has White Castle - a northern staple - along side the Krystals. The Illinois border is only 100 miles northwest on I-24 from downtown Nashville as well. You see billboards all over Nashville and ads on TV occasionally promoting the "short drive" up to Metropolis, Illinois to go gambling at their riverboat casinos.

St Louis is clearly not southern, but surrounding the city is southern drawl to the south for sure. I have seen southern Missouri and its not very different from rural Tennessee.

So where's your dividing line?

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heckles,

your welcome my man. glad to see my idea of asking about regionalism is catching on. Hope to read some interesting responses to this post.

My mind was always the Mason-Dixon line and Ohio river, but with the demos today DC is more "northern" and St. Louis and Cincy is more a mix of both, so i voted for Ohio River & south of DC, but south of the Ohio River is Pittsburgh International Airport as well as a big chunk of the steel city and its suburbs. The ohio river outside of Pa. is better but even then u have Wheeling and Wierton and other towns that have more in common with Detroit then they do Savannah. I'd say Ohio River as it approaches Kentucky. the rest of the northern border is a straight line parrell to Charleston Wva and Richmond Va.

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I put other because it could include more parts of Maryland, which in some cases part of the south. Although, south of DC and the Ohio river is likely as well. It is a matter of personal perception.

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I don't know, south of DC I guess. But Richmond didn't seem all that southern to me, although parts of Baltimore did. :unsure:

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I agree with the first map in orange. The south doesn't always have definite boundaries, but it is a regional thing, for real. You got to feel the "southern hospitality". I had no idea though that southern Florida doesn't have as much southern feel as north Florida does.

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usa_regions.gif

There's no way Oklahoma should ever be considered Midwest. It is Southwestern, but since there is no Southwest region here, I'd put it in the South.

Missouri is the true chameleon state. Northern MO may as well be Iowa, Eastern MO may as well be Illinois, western MO may as well be Kansas and southern MO...well, it may as well be Arkansas. I guess you could say the same for a lot of states though. Southern Illinois outside of the St. Louis MetroEast is extremely southern feeling.

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??? Western Missouri is nothing like Kansas... I know since I live here. Once you cross the Missouri River (and Kansas river) the terrain is very different. More open, less hills, more farmland, less trees...

I agree northern Missouri is like Iowa. However I disagree that Eastern Missouri is like Illinois, Illinois is as flat, if not flatter than Kansas... I've been to Eastern Missouri now, and it is just like Western Missouri, but once you cross into Illinois, you get green farmland that goes on for literally miles. Illinois is all flat except when you come to a city, river, or Chicago.

Southern Missouri is very very hilly, and has more trees than both Western and Eastern Missouri. Unless you consider everything west of Taum Sauk Mtn. and south of the Lake of the Ozarks southern Missouri.

Texas and Oklahoma aren't in any way southern, like Jive said, they are southwestern. IMO Everything east of Texas, South of the Missouri southern border and north of the Everglades in Florida is the south.

Basically this map, excluding Kentucky, southern Florida, Maryland, Washington D.C...

usa-se-map.jpg

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I voted Pennsylvania, Southern Ohio, St Louis, but I should have put other. IMO and from my experience, the South does not have an abrupt end. DC & Baltimore, as well as Louisville sit in a gray area between the South, North, & Midwest. The only thing that orange map represents is the boundaries of the old south.

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That is why I like the orange one better. It shows the South best. The other map was just an attempt to define borders with states, not random lines. The map could easily be subdivided into New England, Southwest, Pacific NW, ROcky Mountain State, Deep South, Mid Atlantic, etc. I think that it shows the broader regions of America best, which are North (or Northeast), South, West, Mid-west.

I excluded Oklahoma, because most Southerners don't consider it to be Southern. Maybe y'all disagree, but thats how I see it.

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Pennsylvania does not feel Southern at all. The only regional "blending" that may take place in Pennsylvania is in the western part of the state, where Pittsburgh feels Northeastern in some ways and Midwestern in others. Hell; even northern West Virginia doesn't feel Southern to me. Weirton, Wheeling, Morgantown, Fairmont and Clarksburg are like Pittsburgh, where the Northeast meets the Midwest. Charleston and Beckley, on the other hand, do feel somewhat Southern. If could separate the North and the South by "connecting the dots" (cities), I'd do it like this:

Fredricksburg, VA --- Charlottesville, VA --- Charleston, WV --- Lexington, KY --- Louisville, KY --- Evansville, IN --- Paducah, KY --- Cape Girardeau, MO --- Rolla, MO --- Springfield, MO --- Tulsa, OK --- Oklahoma City, OK --- Dallas, TX --- Houston, TX

South of that line is the South, as I recognize it. :ph34r:

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I agree northern Missouri is like Iowa. However I disagree that Eastern Missouri is like Illinois, Illinois is as flat, if not flatter than Kansas... I've been to Eastern Missouri now, and it is just like Western Missouri, but once you cross into Illinois, you get green farmland that goes on for literally miles. Illinois is all flat except when you come to a city, river, or Chicago.

Texas and Oklahoma aren't in any way southern, like Jive said, they are southwestern. IMO Everything east of Texas, South of the Missouri southern border and north of the Everglades in Florida is the south.

East Texas is as southern as Alabama. And Illinois is not all flat by any means--the southern portion is hilly, hilly.

Oklahoma is a hard fit, but the southeastern part of the state has alligators for whatever that means.

I also think Kentucky qualifies for "southern" as much as anything else--it's got the southern Appalachian culture, the "mint-julep southern belle" culture around Louisville and Lexington, and the southern flatland culture in the west.

And Missouri south of Cape Girardeau is cotton fields, bayous, and cypress swamps. I also think more of the Missouri Ozarks would qualify as southern.

As far as accents go, I've heard strong southern drawls from locals as far north as Hannibel MO, a hundred miles north of St. Louis.

I agree with the orange map pretty well--maybe throw in southern Illinois, and scoot some more of the Missouri Ozarks in there.

Interesting how a lot of this depends on your own geographical location. I have heard a number of folks in Minnesota refer to St. Louis as southern, and for that matter, there appear to be traces of a southern accent in southern Iowa--at least compared to folks further north.

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I agree with this map except that I would include DC, but not include northern Kentucky. Lexington is basically a suburb of Cincinnatti which isn't Southern at all.

Lexington is 85 miles south of Cincinnati. It's got an old south, mint-julep, aristocratic culture, and was a big center for Kentucky slave-owners.

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Northern Kentucky is as southern as southern can get - you'd be amazed at how much of a dividing line the Ohio River is in 2004.

Cincinnati isn't southern - but its North Kentucky suburbs are.

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Lexington proper is a fairly progressive community from what I've heard - but Northern Kentucky is very hick. I've made plenty stops on the Interstate and have seen it. Looks identical to my area in Tennessee. Hick, uneducated, crappy.

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this is an interesting question. I feel like there are two prongs to it -- the geographic south and the cultural south.

Geographically, the orange map is it, but I have traveled in south indiana and southern illinois and I feel like there is a definite southern "feel" to it then in the northen part of those states. If you talk to someone from Chicago and then someone from Southern Illinois you would hear a different accent and most definitely a different mentality.

what of the cultural south? do those "lines" exist?

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I think this is a really interesting point...the geographical south as compared culturally. When I moved to the Raleigh-Durham area, I was simply amazed at just how un-southern the place was. I've found it easier to find legit NY pizza and bagels down here than up through DC, Baltimore, or Philly. I've noticed that Durham in particular almost has a NJ feel to it(industrial, prominent university w/in). A huge part is that there are a ton of New Yorkers that have moved to the area, lending it a different feel then a Savannah for example. I would go so far as to say Cincinnati seemed southern in comparison(maybe that's midwestern, but it's more slow and polite from my view). I think the idea of the South and North is somewhat dated really. There are true bastions of Southernness like a Charleston, SC(beautiful town if you've never been), and places up North that are unmistakable..like Boston. With how mobile society is however, the Sunbelt is much like the West Coast used to be...completely random in the sense that people have moved there from all kinds of places.

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Anybody who think s that Virginia and West Virginia are in the South is Crazy! Its friggin cold in those states. North Carolina is the fartest North the South goes.

Oh and Florida is not in the South either.

Brad

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