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Where does the south end/begin?


Where is your line?  

182 members have voted

  1. 1. Where is your line?

    • Pennsylvania, Southern Ohio, St Louis
      26
    • South of DC, Ohio River
      92
    • Arkansas, Tennessee, North Carolina
      48
    • Other
      16


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To be honest, I've never been to the south (besides being *inside* Atlanta-Hartsfield). But I've read quite a bit, as this has interested me, so in my view the south encompasses:

GA, AL, MS, LA, SC, NC, TN, AR

Most of Kentucky

Most of Virginia (except parts of the NoVA metro area)

Florida north of somewhere between Tampa Bay / Melbourne and Orlando

Southern Missouri, possibly beyond that

Southern Illinois

Eastern Oklahoma, at least SE Oklahoma (Western Oklahoma is more of cowboy country / great plains)

Eastern Texas, but not near the Mexican border (Western Texas is more of cowboy country)

Possibly southern Indiana

This is stretching it, but the KC area has what sounds like a strong southern accent, as does STL. Perhaps elements of Southern speech / culture extend farther north than one would think.

Arguably WV, too, but I've heard that's "Appalachian", not southern.

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I live right near the dividing line, and would have to say it's the Manassas Battlefield, 30 miles west of DC.

This was the site of two major civil war battles, and today its east side is filled with strip development you might find in New Jersey, with very diverse ethnicities. Once you come out the west side, instead of Pakistani accents at the convenience marts, you hear southern ones. The NASCAR stickers and confederate flags suddenly multiply, and the Exxons become RaceTracs.

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Definately southern states:

LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, TN

Partly southern states:

TX (East definately ... Houston, Dallas but not near Mexico), VA (southern VA definately... ), WV (too mountain reneckish, but south I guess), FL (Jacksonville, north definately), KY (southern part maybe), AR (southern definately),

Not southern states:

Missouri (I can see where someone says St. Louis though), Illinois, Indiana, Penn, Maryland (although I think Baltimore is southern), Ohio

That map with the orange is a very good visualization of the south........

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It is interesting how different parts of states are more southern than others. For instance, Northern Va has much more of a northern influence than say Norfolk/Virginia Beach. While the Norfolk area is southern, because of the military it does not feel as southern as say the Richmond area imo. And of course FL is all over the board from its southern feel of northern FL to its more diverse southern Miami metro area.

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No way is PA the South. If it were, there would not be much North. No way can a state that touches one of the Great Lakes be Southern! :P

I also don't think PA is Midwest. Not even the western part. It's either Northeast or Mid-Atlantic. I live in Pittsburgh and I don't think it feels Midwestern at all. The terrain is very hilly, and I'd say the culture is more Eastern, even if not East Coast per se.

In my mind, the South starts at the old Mason Dixon line.

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No way is PA the South. If it were, there would not be much North. No way can a state that touches one of the Great Lakes be Southern! :P

I also don't think PA is Midwest. Not even the western part. It's either Northeast or Mid-Atlantic. I live in Pittsburgh and I don't think it feels Midwestern at all. The terrain is very hilly, and I'd say the culture is more Eastern, even if not East Coast per se.

In my mind, the South starts at the old Mason Dixon line.

^^I think PA is northeast...... Middle-Atlantic is DC, Maryland, and Northern Virginia. They are the only places that have that unique feel to it........ kind of like a transition between north and south.....

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Definately southern states:

LA, MS, AL, GA, SC, NC, TN

Partly southern states:

TX (East definately ... Houston, Dallas but not near Mexico), VA (southern VA definately... ), WV (too mountain reneckish, but south I guess), FL (Jacksonville, north definately), KY (southern part maybe), AR (southern definately),

Not southern states:

Missouri (I can see where someone says St. Louis though), Illinois, Indiana, Penn, Maryland (although I think Baltimore is southern), Ohio

That map with the orange is a very good visualization of the south........

Dude Kentucky is just as Southern as Virginia and anyone who's been there can tell you that.

As I have said elsewhere alot of people on here think that the "DEEP SOUTH" is the only South..wrong, the South starts at the Mason Dixon Line (officially). There is no way Louisville, Owensboro, Bowling Green, ect. ain't Southern cities 9and I've been all over the South).

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Dude Kentucky is just as Southern as Virginia and anyone who's been there can tell you that.

As I have said elsewhere alot of people on here think that the "DEEP SOUTH" is the only South..wrong, the South starts at the Mason Dixon Line (officially). There is no way Louisville, Owensboro, Bowling Green, ect. ain't Southern cities 9and I've been all over the South).

^^That is why I said southern KY. I noted the definate southern states (I guess deep south). The maybe southern states (the other type of south) and the definately not southern states.... KY and VA are in the same category..... :thumbsup:

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  • 3 weeks later...

Interesting how a lot of this depends on your own geographical location. I have heard a number of folks in Minnesota refer to St. Louis as southern, and for that matter, there appear to be traces of a southern accent in southern Iowa--at least compared to folks further north.

I agree. I grew up in MN, but went to school in St. Louis. I think that the "south" line runs through southern Iowa and runs directly over to Washington D.C. Now, I live in TN, which is deep south to me. The midwest region is comprised of the Dakotas, Iowa, Minnesota, Wisconsin, and Michigan. That's right, no Illinois or Missouri.

Here is a map that helps to define north and south US

http://www.popvssoda.com/countystats/total-county.html

Northern states call it pop and southern states call it coke. Cast your vote.

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This is what I consider to be the south (from the black line south). I'm sure I'll catch some flack for including parts of Ohio, Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, and Oklahoma, but I guarantee you if you visit these places you will feel a strong southern influence, both in the way people speak and the general culture.

And Oklahoma City, although it is most often included in the Midwest/Plains discussions, feels much more similar to Texas than to St. Louis or Omaha.

And forgive me for the poor quality of the map... I am at work and have no good software. :-)

ydgudl.jpg

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I don't think I'd extend the map quite so far west, and include OK city. But I agree with the overall point, that the southern edge of Ill/Ind/Oh can justifiably be included.

And yes, exclude the Miami metro. It's more like a weird mix of NY/Haiti/Cuba/PuertoRico. And this was an area that developed after 1920.... it isn't culturally "rooted" in the old south.

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Southern Illinois feels a lot like the rest of the lower Mississippi.... poorer riverbank living, people just getting by. Stop through there some time and you can sense the southern accents in people.

The bluffs over the Ohio river in Indiana and Ohio are something like Appalachia. But I would not extend this threshold any farther north. IE Columbus and Chillicothe are not southern cities. Although you'll still hear cicadas in the humid summer, and it seems that way sometimes...

When I had my first opportunity to drive to the west coast, I remember wondering "When will I feel like I'm in the west?" For me, that decision was just beyond Springfield Mo. Although it still seemed southern in vegitation, with the occasional Dairy Queen by the road, I could sense that there were fewer gas stations, less commerce.... Population density was dropping away beyond what you normally feel in the south.

That's part of my reason for keeping OK city in the west. You drive through too much "emptiness" to get there.

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I don't think I'd extend the map quite so far west, and include OK city. But I agree with the overall point, that the southern edge of Ill/Ind/Oh can justifiably be included.

And yes, exclude the Miami metro. It's more like a weird mix of NY/Haiti/Cuba/PuertoRico. And this was an area that developed after 1920.... it isn't culturally "rooted" in the old south.

Miami was incorporated in 1896 and its been rapidly growing ever since. Imo, its cultural diverse Southern city. Not all of the South has to be just like the area called "the Deep South".

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This is what I consider to be the south (from the black line south). I'm sure I'll catch some flack for including parts of Ohio, Missouri, Kansas, Illinois, Indiana, and Oklahoma, but I guarantee you if you visit these places you will feel a strong southern influence, both in the way people speak and the general culture.

And Oklahoma City, although it is most often included in the Midwest/Plains discussions, feels much more similar to Texas than to St. Louis or Omaha.

And forgive me for the poor quality of the map... I am at work and have no good software. :-)

ydgudl.jpg

I agree with this map. DC is basically the N-S division in the east, and it's very apparent as you drive up I-95. Then Follow the Ohio River back towards portions of Missouri, OK, and eastern TX.

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I agree with the above map. But then again my view might be distorted by the fact that where i live is about as far from the south as you can get (northern Minnesota). Oh well. The map is nice to look at, anyway, with its soft blue tone and accurate depictions of states.

I would further add that the south seems to terminate rather abruptly at the Gulf of Mexico and/or the Atlantic ocean. I don't think anyone will disagree with me?

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What are the unique cultural characteristics that all cities must have to be considered Southern?

As somebody else suggested, I think we could all go on for days about this.

I think there is a distinct difference between the "deep south" and the "upland south," if you would like to refer to it as such. To me, the deep south consists only of Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Arkansas, Louisiana, S. Carolina, Tennessee, and maybe parts of eastern Texas. Kentucky, Virginia, W. Virginia, N. Carolina, and the southern portions of IL, IN, OH, MO, and OK definitely exhibit a hybrid of midwestern and southern culture. Kentucky is probably more tied to the midwest than its other southern neighbors, primarily because of the tie it has to the Ohio river and the industrial river cities of the north. But still, I think you'll feel a definite difference between Louisville and Cincinnati, even though they have a lot in common. Louisville is unquestionably more southern.

I spent quite a bit of my childhood in southern Mississippi (Hattiesburg, to be exact), but I also have family in Elizabethtown, KY. Both are definitely southern but there is a very distinct difference between the feel of these two regions.

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