COMPLETED: Connecticut Science Center @ Adriaen's Landing

[drc72]

An article on the removal/repair:

http://www.courant.com/news/custom/topnews...dlines-specials

I love how they spread the blame around........

[T52]

I love how they spread the blame around........

Actually, this is not as black and white as you might think. In construction, there are allowable tolerances for different parts of structures and in some instances those tolerances can be different for the same components in different applications depending on the complexity of the structure. If this structure is of unusual complexity, which seems a reasonable possibility, the out of plane dimensions that I have seen (something like 12-18") could very well be within allowable tolerances. Those tolerances relate to things like the cumulative effect of minor inconsistencies in materials and fabrication techniques. When a piece of steel is rolled to create a curve, the steel is actually bent further and then it springs back to a lesser curve. The steel will then bend to a different curve when it is put in place (deflecting under its own weight). If you were making lots of the same pieces, you would make minor adjustments and it some point get it down to very tight tolerances. When you are making just a few pieces, it is not practical to expect that the fabricator is going to roll and test enough pieces to get the tolerances zeroed in, therefore the greater latitude.

That having been said, one has to ask why would anybody want to force the issue, absent any structural issue like the beams are too small, bad connections, defective materials etc. The process that is underway could easily be a million dollar problem and when the numbers are that big, you can bet there will be a battle to settle this thing out.

I have seen greater dimensional busts with large simple structures when putting large additions on buildings that have stood for years without causing issues but the problem. At some level I can't help imagine that there is a huge ego fueling this wasteful process...

[The Voice of Reason]

Actually, this is not as black and white as you might think. In construction, there are allowable tolerances for different parts of structures and in some instances those tolerances can be different for the same components in different applications depending on the complexity of the structure. If this structure is of unusual complexity, which seems a reasonable possibility, the out of plane dimensions that I have seen (something like 12-18") could very well be within allowable tolerances. Those tolerances relate to things like the cumulative effect of minor inconsistencies in materials and fabrication techniques. When a piece of steel is rolled to create a curve, the steel is actually bent further and then it springs back to a lesser curve. The steel will then bend to a different curve when it is put in place (deflecting under its own weight). If you were making lots of the same pieces, you would make minor adjustments and it some point get it down to very tight tolerances. When you are making just a few pieces, it is not practical to expect that the fabricator is going to roll and test enough pieces to get the tolerances zeroed in, therefore the greater latitude.

That having been said, one has to ask why would anybody want to force the issue, absent any structural issue like the beams are too small, bad connections, defective materials etc. The process that is underway could easily be a million dollar problem and when the numbers are that big, you can bet there will be a battle to settle this thing out.

I have seen greater dimensional busts with large simple structures when putting large additions on buildings that have stood for years without causing issues but the problem. At some level I can't help imagine that there is a huge ego fueling this wasteful process...

I used to work as a construction manager, and really, from my experience, this kind of thing is typical. Usually these kinds of problems do not get to the legal stage as the legal fees end up costing more than just fixing the problem. Also the lines that were drawn are typical. It is easiest to go after Berlin Steel as they are most likely at least partially to blame or in charge of whats to blame even though I am sure they did the best they could with the situations they are dealing with. So as usual, every one above them in the food chain teamed up against them. Berlin Steel also likely has the best insurance, and bonding to deal with this kind of issue, so in the end they will negotiate some kind of shared blame with the CM, Berlin steel and the steel provider. Berlin would take the brunt of it, but no ones reputation would be hurt in the end and no ones bottom line would be truely affected. After all these kinds of problems are calculated in bidding out a project. Hell, if construction companies were expected to be perfect 100% of the time there wouldn't be any companies left. Construction is a hugely complicated industry, and It seems to me that everyone on this project is of high reputation.

I am not worried about this little distraction at all.

I will also agree that there are likely several egos playing into this and its those Egos are likely the reasons its making press. I would first point to the guy repeatedly named in the article.

[T52]

I used to work as a construction manager, and really, from my experience, this kind of thing is typical. Usually these kinds of problems do not get to the legal stage as the legal fees end up costing more than just fixing the problem. Also the lines that were drawn are typical. It is easiest to go after Berlin Steel as they are most likely at least partially to blame or in charge of whats to blame even though I am sure they did the best they could with the situations they are dealing with. So as usual, every one above them in the food chain teamed up against them. Berlin Steel also likely has the best insurance, and bonding to deal with this kind of issue, so in the end they will negotiate some kind of shared blame with the CM, Berlin steel and the steel provider. Berlin would take the brunt of it, but no ones reputation would be hurt in the end and no ones bottom line would be truely affected. After all these kinds of problems are calculated in bidding out a project. Hell, if construction companies were expected to be perfect 100% of the time there wouldn't be any companies left. Construction is a hugely complicated industry, and It seems to me that everyone on this project is of high reputation.

I also have a little construction experience and my point is that Berlin Steel may be taking the brunt of the blame in the press for this when in fact their obligations as erector of a structure with bolted connections were likely satisfied due to the facts that the tolerence requirements of this type of structure are greater than a simple structure, the blted connections involve pre-drilled holes and the fabrication was outside of the scope of their work (as I have been told). Contractors do not work on the huge margins that people think they do and at the end of the day, it appears that the underlying reason for the re-work was that the "magic carpet" did not exactly match the drawings - something hardly detectable without measuring equipment. I seriously doubt that the "magic carpet" will look any different after the blood is spilled and therefore feel that the process seems a bit wasteful...

[beerbeer]

Yeah, but you thought the bait and switch at the Sage Allen Building was just fine as well.

[T52]

Yeah, but you thought the bait and switch at the Sage Allen Building was just fine as well.

Perhaps that is because I knew that the initially rendered Sage Allen project was not going to be built due to site problems and the options were a scaled down version or no project at all. My first budgets on that project were dated 1996 and it took 8 years to get construction underway. Unlike numerous projects I have budgeted for developers (that were never built), Sage Allen is 95% occupied and Hartford is better for it. Perhaps I am troubled by the Science Center because I know how tough it is to make these projects come together.

By the way, if you do a little research you will find that the Science Center was proposed on the other side of the river (on Konover's site which was why the magnet school was located there) - was that another bait and switch?

[HartfordTycoon]

I can only speak for myself, but I think the Sage Allen project is a great project for the city that has really brought a little life back to that block. Since they put the brick colored tiles up on Temple and Market it looks a lot better. I think we should get over the fact that its a little different from some of the renderings.

[beerbeer]

The original science center project in East Hartford didn't have the money to get off the ground. It was a proposal. If you look at those plans it was a multi-building plan that never saw the light of day.

Besides, this science center is a HUGE upgrade. Bait and switch does upgrade, it downgrades.

[Luca Brasi]

By the way, if you do a little research you will find that the Science Center was proposed on the other side of the river (on Konover's site which was why the magnet school was located there) - was that another bait and switch?

Once Adriaen's Landing was proposed, the Science Center was moved to Hartford to be included. I remember the architecture "competition" for the Science Center that included Cesar Pelli, Zaha Hadid, Moshe Safdie and the firm from Germany. I attended the design unveiling at the Belden Theater. All designs were for the site used now and Pelli's was chosen. How is that a bait and switch? It was only talk when it was considered for East Hartford.

[Chessplayer]

I can only speak for myself, but I think the Sage Allen project is a great project for the city that has really brought a little life back to that block. Since they put the brick colored tiles up on Temple and Market it looks a lot better. I think we should get over the fact that its a little different from some of the renderings.

Wait, they covered up the vinyl paneling with brick colored tiles? So the facades of the building facing Temple and Market are brick looking now?

[The Voice of Reason]

<br /> Contractors do not work on the huge margins that people think they do and at the end of the day, it appears that the underlying reason for the re-work was that the &quot;magic carpet&quot; did not exactly match the drawings - something hardly detectable without measuring equipment. I seriously doubt that the &quot;magic carpet&quot; will look any different after the blood is spilled and therefore feel that the process seems a bit wasteful...<br />

<br /><br /><br />

I definitely agree with you in general, but I guess I don

[HartfordTycoon]

Wait, they covered up the vinyl paneling with brick colored tiles? So the facades of the building facing Temple and Market are brick looking now?

No, the base level that was mercilessly derided due to it being unfinished concrete when the project was nearing completion last year, has now been tiled and looks decent.

[T52]

No, the base level that was mercilessly derided due to it being unfinished concrete when the project was nearing completion last year, has now been tiled and looks decent.

Not to mention that the laser ablated granite photos are pretty cool as well...

[T52]

The original science center project in East Hartford didn't have the money to get off the ground. It was a proposal.

Just as the original Temple Street Project proposal was not going to get off the ground. The City gave up on the idea of the Temple Street Development and comissioned an Architect and completed demolition drawings to turn the site into another vacant lot when some people rolled up their sleeves and made it happen.

[beerbeer]

Ridiculous.

[The Voice of Reason]

Sorry to interupt your back and fourth, but do either of you have a link to those renderings that got your hopes so high?

[MadVlad]

Sorry to interupt your back and fourth, but do either of you have a link to those renderings that got your hopes so high?

Check out the thread pertaining to the Sage Allen building....

[mikel]

Unless it's a fudgeing skyscraper these people will never be happy.

[beerbeer]

I would have been happy if this very beautiful building (as it was proposed) was built.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

They are now starting to put the skin on the building (the side facing 91, sort of a grey metallic / glass, looks pretty good)! Whew, I though the f'd-up roof was going to grind construction to a halt.

[The Voice of Reason]

They are now starting to put the skin on the building (the side facing 91, sort of a grey metallic / glass, looks pretty good)! Whew, I though the f'd-up roof was going to grind construction to a halt.

I noticed that this morning too. There are now 2 cranes on site and the cladding is going up. Maybe I will bring my camera to work tomorrow.

I was stuck at that light fow w while this morning coming over the bridge and there seemed like a great deal more activity than normal going on. This warm weather is surely part of the reason for that.

[drc72]

They are now starting to put the skin on the building (the side facing 91, sort of a grey metallic / glass, looks pretty good)! Whew, I though the f'd-up roof was going to grind construction to a halt.

I noticed the glass as well.... Looks like progress is going good.

[Theophrastus Bombastus]

Jeez Louise... when did the Charter Oak get hit by lightning? Sometimes I think this city has been cursed ever since...

It was supposed to take just a few weeks, but the effort to fix two sagging sides of the "magic carpet" roof atop the Connecticut Science Center in Hartford is now expected to take several months, contributing to the delay of the facility's opening to March 2009.

http://www.courant.com/news/local/hc-roof0...,0,747334.story

[beerbeer]

This doesn't seem like a very big deal. It is a tricky project, some obstacles were probably inevitable.

Hartford gets a world class building that will open in March instead of December. Not a very big curse by any standard.

[mikel]

Hartford needs a bus staging area away from downtown. Just look at all the school buses idling in front of the Civic Center (Bodies Revealed) and G Fox (Capital Prep). Everytime I walk by these areas the air is full of diesel fumes and the sidewalk is blocked by a wall of buses. I hope the city has figured this out. Chances are they have not and school buses will be idling all over the city soon with Columbus Blvd a mess. Unless they plan to have the buses waiting underneath the museum, which is ridiculous yet would not surprise me.