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motonenterprises

Upstate!

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Upstate cities seem to be falling off the messageboard lately. I want to start it back up! Lets talk about some of the development going on in the upstate a little. ICAR is being constructed as we speak in Greenville. Supposed to bring 20,000 jobs to the area. How do you think this will affect Greenville? Downtown development continues. Are there any new skyscrapers in Greenville's future? What about Spartanburg? Any development going on there? I will soon be a part of the real estate scene there. Will Greenwood eventually become a part of the Greenville MSA? Just some topics to talk about. :D

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Spartanburg is at turning point now. Downtown is coming to life slowly but surely. Infact, a new Wild Wing Caf

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I think we might be the only ones from the GSP area....

As for Greenville- I think that in order for Gville to get mor skyscrapers, it will need to focus on downtown more. ICAR is one way to not do that. It focuses on ICAR. While I reaslize that ICAR is more "industrial" in nature, it still detracts from downtown. ICAR itself will be great for the entire Upstate as these companies will undoubtedly have satellite sompanies that will locate in surrounding counties. It has alot of potential.

Greenville also needs to work on expanding DT from Main St. (The retail shops and restaurants)

Greenwood? Um... I have no idea. Maybe it oculd be a part of Greenville or Anderson's CSA in the next Census, but not in the MSA. I could see Cherokee being added to Spartanburg's MSA by then, and maybe Anderson being put back in with Greenville. Spartanburg could go either way.

How about Greenville? What is going on there that you know of?

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Most of the stuff I know I am sure you know already. Falls Park is almost finished and is beautiful! The bridge is amazing! River Place is currently under construction and should add more beauty to Downtown. Of course the sprawl continues around Woodruff Road. Road constuction continues on parts of I-85 and I-385. Would like to see another skyscraper in Greenville's future. Currently the 22 story BB&T building is the tallest. Would like to see one taller than that. Maybe a dome shaped tower. Thats just a dream though. Also would like to see Greenwood(my hometown) be considered a part of Greenville. Most people from Greenwood travel to Greenville to shop and some to work. Have heard rumors that Greenville is Atlanta in the making.

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Hm... I have heard that alot too acutally. I htink maybe it need to reach Charlotte before it reaches Atlanta though :)

If Greenwood is as connected to Greenville as you say, then I am probably wrong!

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The I guess the question is what percentage travels to Greenville for work? Greenwood is still its own micropolitan area for now. I'd lkie to see Greenville's MSA expand... but I would also like to see the central counties get more built up (density, not spawl). But in Greenville its most likely not going to happen.

My theory is that over time, downtown Greenville and the vicinity will get built up with taller buildings and well ultimately result in its own infill. Greenville (and Spartanburg) are in an excellent position to not become Charlotte or Atlanta because people acutally want to live downtown now. Part of why Atlanta is so huge is because of the flight from downtowns in the 60s-80s. Greenville especially is poised to have alot of development downtown. Alot of devlopment is occuring already with condos and apartments going up all over. (Its literally almost every bloock in some areas. Demand is there, you jsut need some developers to dfo the right thing. I see no reason why Greenville can't support a residential tower.

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Would like to see that. Some in the other forum believe we have a disappointing skyline for an area this size, and kinda agree! How tall is some of the stuff in River Place supposed to be?

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Hmm, Riverplace won't be much... Maybe 6 or 8 stories? I can't recall exactly.

Greenville's skyline isn't dissapointing to me- there jsut aren't any dramatic angles to take pictures from.

dwntwnscenic.jpg

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I'm not sure about Greenville being an Atlanta in the making, or in training like I've seen others suggest on some forums. I think it's more likely heading down the road of Raleigh-Durham. People tend to classify both cities as one metro area even though its CSA is spread out over 80 miles (Gaffney to Anderson), It's beginning to focus on ICAR, just like the RTP, and like RTP, ICAR wont be downtown. Greenville is working hard to build itself up leaving Spartanburg in its shadow, much like Raleigh is with Durham. I think ICAR will have a tremendous impact on the entire Upstate! Hell my father wants to move to Townville (Anderson Co.) when he retires. However there is a lot of ground to catch up before it resembles Atlanta as far as urban density. Greenville is just starting too late in the game for that. Now if we are talking about suburbanism resembling Atlanta then I'd say yes! But then again what southeastern city doesn't look like Atlanta in the suburbs? I will say one thing that Greenville does have going for it is its downtown (meaning main street) it has a vibe, just not the vibe I'm used to (I'm more live and let live).

I can't condem the city though it's doing its thing.

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Here in Greenville, isn't there supposed to be the "Gateway Tower/Center" right where the old Memorial Aud. used to stand... I remember hearing that this going to be anywhere from 12 to 36+ stories, and dwarf everything in its path. It was also going to be the "giant d**k in the sky" according to some friends who used to work in the First Union tower, being that gateway was going to have a rounded top. I never saw pictures, but I do remember reading something in the paper about 3 or so years ago. This was also noted in my LRT plans, seeing that it is easier to put something underground when there isn't anything on top of it in the first place...Build from the bottom up. Hell, even I dream big. If no one else is going to do it, why can't I. Oh, and by the way, I'm mulling over getting invovled in government...Call me stupid, but the only way to do this, to get Greenville to become more progressive, is to do it yourself.

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Wow, you better get involved. The only place less progressive than Greenville is Spartanburg <_<. Anderson too. The question is are you in thh City or County? The County is where the sprawl is- not the city.

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I was talking to both of you. As for getting involved, I'm not sure. Its probably a good idea to start by helping others campaign for county council. Or just get involved with city functions. In Greenville its probably going to be easier to be a part of the Republican Party. I don't know who you should contact though.

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That would be pretty cool if Greenville got a 36 story building.

Downtown really needs a new skyscraper. Granted tall buildings dont' make the city but gives it a more cosmetically urban feel.

Good luck!

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Any one of us can get involved. It's just a matter of where to start. Start on the school board, its easy to get involved. Just make your name known. Volunteer, etc, etc. I mulled over running for city council, but then I moved to the county, right at Pelham/85.

The good news is that it looks that with the runoffs over now, the basic majority now on County is slightly more progressive. Thats a start..

Now about this building. It's not going to happen if no one can sell it. Someone has to want to invest in Greenville, and right now, no one does, because out of all the states, there are a whole lot more attractive options. Atlanta for one. We have the opportunity, lets not blow it. I'm tired of hearing bullcrap about textile jobs, etc, etc. ICAR is a great start, in fact its so great, the city annexed the entire project. If I'm correct, WalMart on Woodruff Rd is in the city limits of Greenville now. If we can get out and convince people of how we see things, and convince them to vote for changes, Greenville won't be that bad of a place to live. I hear a lot of people bashing on Knox White, saying that he is out of touch with Greenville, people want a small town charm. If you want small town charm, move to Laurens.

We still have talk of a ballpark in the West End....

Damn near stupid if you ask me. How many roads in that area will be capable of handling the crowds from a ballgame? 0

Well, maybe Academy/123. But thats a mile and half away. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a downtown park, but remember the seven P's. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performace. Lets put a ballpark somewhere near 123/Academy, or even better, near where it was originally going to be, out on Woodruff at the Point on 85. Lets turn Munincipal into an Ampetheater, such as HiFi Buys in ATL. There are a lot of good ideas, we just have to make them happen, and not sit and wait, and tell our grandkids.

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One thing that I wanted to add. GSP Airport. It has a lot of potential, but unfortunately, the management/commision is very closeminded, and every redesign of the airport has been very lackluster. One thing that was done in the past year was the addition of gates A7 and A5. The airport has a lot of potential too. Forgive me for saying this, but I simply wish that the commision would relinqush control and give it to the city of Greenville. Hartsfield Atlanta is owned by the city of Atlanta, and it's in a different county. I'm sure that the backbrained government can do a better job at running it than whats in place now. I know that the tower is outdated, and here is a real shocker to make you feel safe: last time I was in the tower, the radar was still being run with computers with vacuum tubes.....please lets dwell on that for a moment. Let me pitch my idea of remodel/redesign. I would build a new tower in the vicinity of where the employee parking lot is now (in front of the tower where it is now) Lets build a connector between the two concourses.(there is adequate room behind that mural in the resturant, and above the kitchen/bar area). Lets expand concourse B to include at least 8 gates in it. GSP has potential, but then, it will never be Columbia Airport or my favorite small airport, Providence, RI.

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We still have talk of a ballpark in the West End....

Damn near stupid if you ask me. How many roads in that area will be capable of handling the crowds from a ballgame? 0

Well, maybe Academy/123. But thats a mile and half away. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of a downtown park, but remember the seven P's. Proper Prior Planning Prevents Piss Poor Performace. Lets put a ballpark somewhere near 123/Academy, or even better, near where it was originally going to be, out on Woodruff at the Point on 85. Lets turn Munincipal into an Ampetheater, such as HiFi Buys in ATL. There are a lot of good ideas, we just have to make them happen, and not sit and wait, and tell our grandkids.

I agree with you here- people need to do it. If not, they can come to Spartanburg, we'd be glad to have a 4th highrise ;)

The idea behind the Westend ball park seemed to be focused on pulling people further into town than the BiLo Center. Most people who come to Greenville come up 385. If they could extend the free section of 185 further into town it would help with conjestion somewhat, and could help with that traffic issue that a stadium would bring.

  One thing that I wanted to add. GSP Airport. It has a lot of potential, but unfortunately, the management/commision is very closeminded, and every redesign of the airport has been very lackluster. One thing that was done in the past year was the addition of gates A7 and A5. The airport has a lot of potential too. Forgive me for saying this, but I simply wish that the commision would relinqush control and give it to the city of Greenville. Hartsfield Atlanta is owned by the city of Atlanta, and it's in a different county. I'm sure that the backbrained government can do a better job at running it than whats in place now. I know that the tower is outdated, and here is a real shocker to make you feel safe: last time I was in the tower, the radar was still being run with computers with vacuum tubes.....please lets dwell on that for a moment. Let me pitch my idea of remodel/redesign. I would build a new tower in the vicinity of where the employee parking lot is now (in front of the tower where it is now) Lets build a connector between the two concourses.(there is adequate room behind that mural in the resturant, and above the kitchen/bar area). Lets expand concourse B to include at least 8 gates in it. GSP has potential, but then, it will never be Columbia Airport or my favorite small airport, Providence, RI.

Ok, there are some problems here. First of all, the city of Greenville cannont control GSP. Mainly because its the Greenville-Spartanburg Internation Airport. Not Greenville. 90% of the land is in Spartanburg County (basicly the whole thing except for the end of a runway), and Roger Milliken (of Spartanburg) basicly started that airport. If it weren't for him, the Upstate wouldn't have GSP- we'd just have our county airports like Greenville's Downtown Municipal Airport, and Spartanburg's Downtown Memorial Airport. Point being, relenquishing control to one city won't solve any problems with GSP.

I'm sure there are some much needed upgrades to the place, but a change of control wouldn't help at all. Layout issues and whatnot can be addressed- I have no issues with that. What is this about connecting the concourses? Check this out:

layout.jpg

They look connected to me. But I confess I havent been in that airport for many years.

GSP has International Airport status- Columbia Metropolitan Airport is more of a regional thing. GSP has alot more volume of everything than Columbia Metro.

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No, they aren't connected. There are two separate checkpoints, with one lane for each concourse. And the reason I'm knowledgeable about it, is that I used to work for the TSA....The airport itself was built in the 1960's, with a major renovation in the early 90's, that provided jetways, enclosed terminal, etc. Needless to say, the design needs to be updated. The "international" part is a joke. They handle something like 3 or 4 flights a year. the line at WalGreens is ten times faster than the Customs/INS station there. Thanks to Mr Miliken, they have one restaurant in the whole airport, that is so overpriced, a cup of water is a $1.50. Also, his stance on unions is viewed negative, which is why UPS didn't set up shop. Also, he has a deep hatred of unionized ramp workers, which is why American Airlines, United Airlines, and the such do not fly into GSP. The commuter lines are serviced by substandard carriers(ie: Midwest, ACA, Peidmont, Mesa Air) Delta and Northwest are the only mainline carriers at the airport.

And why I was saying about the concourses being connected, is that the airlines tend to push people between flights and airlines, and if you've ever been there when it is busy and rainy, we would have checkpoint lines that were 500 people deep, because USAir sent a planeload to Delta, Delta sent 15 to Contenental, etc etc, so on and so on. The place needs help. More help than even I can give.

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Still, despite Milliken's views, he is a major player with that airport. The airport's land was bought up and put together by him. The field is called "Roger Milliken Field." He is the head of whatever organization run the place if I'm not mistaken. He has such a negative view of unions because in his company, he treats his workers very very well. Milliken Inc is repeatedly listed as one of the best companies to work for. Point being, he has the right to do what he wants, even if we don't like it. After he passes on, you will probably see a reworking of things there.

I see what you're saying about being connected though. If you have a connecting flight (which is probably rare) you would have to go out and go through security again.

The international part was a large part of getting BMW to come here. I seem to recall them occuring at around the same time.

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Yeah, I see what you're saying. Enough about GSP though.

My biggest gripe with the area is how when we take 4 steps forward, we end up taking 16 steps backwards. Anyways, I'm going to use my CG skills to superimpose what the Gateway Tower would look like in Greenville.

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Awsome- I look forward to seeing that!

I can't say that I've ever seen a rendering of this though.

(This is my 1000th post!)

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