Greenville Transit

[jarvismj]

I was reading in the forum that Greenville bought the land to run commuter rail. I'm familar with this "line" and to be honest, I feel that LRT would be a better option, ecspecially with the fact that the north line is only about 11 miles, at the longest. If anyone here is familiar with the Greenville area, we also have another rail line, one that I'll refer to as the "south line" which goes southeast from downtown, by downtown airport, crossing Haywood Rd, and going into the Mauldin/Simpsonville area. My idea, and everyone has told me how stupid it is, but since the lines do not connect, they could connect the two via a short tunnel, one that begins by the Amtrak station on Washington St, going under Washington, with a station at the bus transfer center, and another one over between the Courthouse/proposed Gateway Tower (where the old auditorium once stood) and the BiLo Center. My best estimation, is that the total length would not be more than 2 miles. Is it just me that thinks that this could be done? By doing something like that, it would be good for not only traffic, but it would be building something that can be expanded at a later time. My reason for saying this, is that I lived outside Baltimore/Washington, and the traffic there was never as bad as it is here, and I feel that something has to be done, before they widen 385 to 6 lanes each way.

[motonenterprises]

Traffic worse in Greenville than right outside Washington/Baltimore? Wow!

[Spartan]

Welcome to the forum jarvis!

I think that your idea has potential. The problem would be going through that historic neighborhood (I think its called Washington Heights). People in that vicinity wouldn't be thrillied about it at all. But actually going beneath downtown should be a major problem since its largely on a hill.

[monsoon]

[jarvismj]

what I meant by traffic being worse here, is that it seems that everyone behind the wheel is either not paying attention to traffic, or they have a suicide death wish. Don't believe me, just hit Orchard Park @ Haywood between 3:30 and 7:00PM.

On the idea of the tunnel, what I was thinking is deep bore under Washington, cutting north under Main/Coffee/Spring, and then having another station under where the old auditorium stood. It would continue in tunnel under Laurens/Stone Ave, and the old rail line, the "South Line" is almost totally parallel to Laurens Rd, in its own ROW. I realize that it would be expensive, but in retrospect, didn't Pittsburgh and St Louis have tunnels that prexisted, but they had to retrofit them for LRT? So outright building a tunnel would be doing it right the first time. I'll try to find some more info on cost, and distance from Amtrak to the old ROW.

Also, there has been talk of a system in Anderson of all places, one that uses the existing ROW along Clemson Blvd, from around the mall area, up to Clemson Unv. I've heard more of this than anything else happening in Greenville or our area at that.

[jarvismj]

[Spartan]

I see what you mean now. It makes sense to me. The only real problem with your idea is getting other people to see the feasablitliy of it. I think perhaps that Greenville will begin to see mass transit with a Main St trolley, which will gradually be expanded as downtown grows, and people begin to live in downtown neighborhoods. As much demand as there is for housing in Downtown, I see no reason why a highrise residential tower is out of the question. All of this will have to build on itself over time.

I haven't heard about the thing with Anderson and Clemson. That would seem to be more feasible if college students could be convinced that Anderson is the place to go.

[motonenterprises]

So this is basically a subway system? Would be nice to have in Greenville!

[Spartan]

It seems to be more ilke Atlanta's MARTA where it is only unergounrd near downtown, its more of a LRT than anything..

[jarvismj]

Thats the idea, that it is an LRT, but one that runs underground in the city center. Here in the upstate, we are lucky, that we have somewhat of a good rail ROW that we don't have to elevate or go underground for very long distances. I would hate to have run LRT down the street though, seeing as what happened in Houston, but with what little we do now, it can easily be expanded to places such as Easley, or GSP Airport, or even Spartanburg or Clemson. It's just a matter of being more open minded and not worrying about what others think. I strongly feel that the actual city of Greenville would more than likely go for something like this, seeing that they are slowing getting rid of the blue laws, it's just the county that drags it's feet. If there were a system that this would copy it would either be St Louis, or Pittsburgh. Something with both high and low level boarding. This can be done, and in fact, I found a *.pdf online from a consulting firm that planned this out, but a slight variation.... I'll try to link to it

[jarvismj]

Adobe PDF for LRT in Greenville.

I'm not the only crazy one.

[monsoon]

[Spartan]

Thats awsome. I didn't know Charleston had an LRT proposal. I'll have to look into that.

[The_sandlapper]

Charleston has had a proposal for a while now. However I don't think it will happen there yet.

Greenville-Spartanburg has a better chance b/c of its sprawling population.

But I do think it would make more sense to put commuter rail in a more urban environment. Oh well?

[Spartan]

I've always thought a Greenville to Spartanburg line would do well, with stops at Greenville, Taylors, Greer, Airport, Duncan, Spartanburg. Then spur lines and other smaller stops. Stops at the malls would be necessary, and this would need to tie in with the North/South line in Greenville that this thread is about.

[monsoon]

[jarvismj]

The Asheville Forum was talking about high speed rail coming to the area, and in what little I know, I realize that the main High Speed corridor is almost parallel to I-85. Well, is there a rail line or ROW that goes from Greenville to Asheville that could be used for that purpose or for commuter rain between the two cities?

[The_sandlapper]

The Asheville Forum was talking about high speed rail coming to the area, and in what little I know, I realize that the main High Speed corridor is almost parallel to I-85. Well, is there a rail line or ROW that goes from Greenville to Asheville that could be used for that purpose or for commuter rain between the two cities?

Here's what part of the SE high speed rail corridor is supposed to look like going through the Carolinas and Georgia.

This is what it's supposed to look like going through the eastern half of the country.

South Carolina HSR (High Speed Rail)

But to answer your question I haven't heard of one but then again this project isn't my specialty. It would make sense though there is a lot of interaction between those cities.

Edited September 16, 2004 by The_sandlapper

[Spartan]

There is probably more interaction between Asheville and Spartanburg since they are on the same Interstate.

The SC routes ought to include a conneciton between Greenville/Spartanburg, Columbia, and Charleston

[The_sandlapper]

There are plans to extend the line to the coast Charleston & Myrtle Beach.

The thing that sucks about the SC portion though is that it won't travel as fast as its neighbors Georgia, and N. Carolina (70-110), instead it will go 65-70mph. It's due because of the way the tracks are laid out in the areas of the state.

[Spartan]

That is a continual frustration. The TGV in France travels at 96-132mph (160-220kph). Trains won't attract as many users if they can't get you to where you need to go faster than a car. I refuse to believe that if they can build somehting that can go this fast in Eurpoe/Japan that they cant do it here in America.

[jarvismj]

The reason that they won't go as fast is that the state doesn't want to spend the money to eliminate the grade crossings, straighten the ROW, etc. Those of us in Greenville might have seen the ROW, being the line alongside Rutherford Rd. As we all know, for high speed rail, we must eliminate the need to slow down. If anyone is familar with the NEC, the section between Attleboro, MA and Boston, MA has I believe two grade crossings, and that stretch is over 40 miles long. I remember in Los Angeles, near the Blue Line, they had a freight line that had something like 65 grade crossings, in a 20 mile stretch. Anyways, what they did was bury it in an open trench. Here is a picture.

This is something that is costly, but not too costly to complete, and be made into something that can be placed along the line in Easley, SC also.

[Spartan]

This is something that is costly, but not too costly to complete, and be made into something that can be placed along the line in Easley, SC also.

Are you talking about the trench thing?

[monsoon]

[btoy]

Clemson Area Transit actullay has plans for Light Rail from the University, actually the Amtrack station on HWY123 to Greenville via Easly. Eventually that line would also go to the GSP Airport.

Also their are discussionsabout a Charlotte To Atlanta High Speed line that would go through Spartanburgh, Greenville, and Clemson.

Not sure if you have seen Vision 2025 for Greenville but they mention a line from Easly, Powdersville, Greenville, Taylors, Greer, Spartanburg,

And Travelers Rest, Greenville, Mauldin, Simpsonville, Fountain Inn.

I need to find the link, but looks like Rail Transit has a bright future for the area. I know the City of Greenville owns the rail along Laurens Rd. or so I have heard.

Also, the CSX and Norfolk Souther Lines running through Greer are going to be combined in the near future.

Brad