Greenville Transit

[RestedTraveler]

Hopefully, they're planning on doing something innovative. I sure get sick of all the political positioning though. The city must be pushing this because they seem to go negative hard and quick when they want something.

Can't you envision it now? Trolley service expanded throughout the county and not just confined to downtown!

Seriously, though...I agree with everyone...there is definitely something suspicious about all of this. I have my faith in Greenville City Government to take this service over and run it as best they see fit and to do something innovative and cost-effective with it; however, I also have just as many doubts.

[Spartan]

This really doesn't mean much of anything. Creating a new system won't actually solve the root of the problem, which is funding and County Council acting like it knows how to run a transit agency when its already run two of them into the ground. Greenville needes to pass a 1/2 cent sales tax or find some other source of dedicated funding. If you look at that chart from the other day, GTA is one of the most efficiently operating transit systems in the South.

[Greenville]

Since it's already efficient, then doesn't it make logical sense that taking advantage of the existing services of both councils will reduce costs - and thus result in more money with which to work? It's unlikely that the system will become any less efficient with the switch to city-county control. And I would think that such a move will make it easier to pass a 1/2-cent tax in the future if one is needed.

Nobody involved seems to dispute the fact that more funding would be nice (from the federal government, taxpayers, etc.). But until that happens, it only makes sense to eliminate the duplication of services. Honestly, I don't see why anyone would be opposed to reducing government and improving the utilization of the dollars that are available.

[Spartan]

I agree with that in principle, Greenville. Infact, I don't think anyone would disagree!

The problem is that no councilman wants to say what is actually being duplicated or where that wasted money is going, and people just take that for granted and assume that is a fact. Example:

"Council Chairman Butch Kirven said Monday that he still can't point to any evidence of wrongdoing at GTA, but that "clear signs"

[vicupstate]

Without a doubt, there is WAY more going on than has been made public. A 10-1 vote is pretty compelling, so behind closed doors, the council members are hearing something that makes the doubts go away.

I'm with RT, Greenville city is about as well-run as any city I know of. So I am taking it on faith, that the powers that be, know what they are doing, and that in retrospect, this will seem like a great move. While they both are involved, the city is clearly in the driver seat on this one.

That brings up another thing. This is a REMARKABLE turn of events, when the city and county are in sync on a big, high dollar joint project. I sure hope that is something we will continue to see. Kirven seems to really be making his mark on the leadership of Gville County. If he and Mayor White can work together on major projects, there is a bright future ahead, IMO.

[greenvillegrows]

Agreed. Agreed. It will be interesting to watch.

[greenvillegrows]

2 articles from GNews.

1st article.

2nd article.

Article 1: the GM is retiring and a memo goes out from the city appointed board members saying that it's "ridiculous" that she told the County Council that there may be some unforseen side effects to making a new system. The memo also claims that the GTA had no strategic plan, but the writer, Ben Szobody, says there was a 70 page plan put out by the GTA last year. The memo criticizes further claiming that there was an investigation into the GTA by the inspector general the lasted almost 2 years, but the article says that nothing came out of it. The ironic thing is, the critical memo sort of criticizes the GM for telling the County Council that it's not necessary to be so critical of the old system just to develop the new system.

Article 2: the county council is saying that there may be a lot of side effects to making a new system -"bigger effort than envisioned...huge undertaking...lots of implications to the city. The city manager says no new funding is planned, and the mayor says the city's current plan is an extensive cleaning of equipment and the bus station - not quite 70 pages, but a start.

I like the sentiment that there's not a need to keep criticizing the old in order to organize the new. Everytime the new criticizes the old, they have to measure up against the same standard or be criticized themselves.

Edited May 12, 2007 by greenvillegrows

[RestedTraveler]

So it was all about land, after all?

[goodbye]

Whether it was all about the land or not (I think not), Developing that important piece of property would be excellent. Now is the time...

[GvilleSC]

Whether it was all about the land or not (I think not), Developing that important piece of property would be excellent. Now is the time...

We could get the best of both worlds. Develope the land and get a potentially better transit system. It would indeed be excellent and it's key in getting that side of Augusta Street active. Right now, the Mellow Mushroom side has most, if not all, of the activity.

[RestedTraveler]

So it was all about land, after all?

It's amazing how politicians flea controversy...

Greenville County Council left spectators and transit officials in shock tonight by voting down a plan to scrap the Greenville Transit Authority that had appeared to be sailing toward final approval.

There was no discussion.

[jarvismj]

It's amazing how politicians flea controversy...

I think that the Greenville News breaking the West End land story might have had something to contribute to this. I don't see why the GTA can't just sell the land to highest bidder, and be done with it. Utilize the money to buy new land for a shop and staging yard somewhere off of Augusta Rd, probably near the Donaldson Ctr, and to provide for a more frequent bus schedule, etc.

Seriously, I want to think that Jim Bourey can't be as corrupt as the politico's up here, but I think that I'm wrong. What really got me was an article that I read on Greenville Online regarding the road construction at Falls and Broad, and I'm paraphrasing at best was said, and that was that Jim is keeping his eye on workers who don't have a grasp on traffic flow. Just the sheer thought of Jim standing at his office window in City Hall watching these workers kind of creeps me out. Kind of like Mr Burns, in a weird and twisted way. It's like he wishes he were mayor, but nevertheless, he still has the city by the you know what...

Ok, back on topic.

[RestedTraveler]

...What really got me was an article that I read on Greenville Online regarding the road construction at Falls and Broad, and I'm paraphrasing at best was said, and that was that Jim is keeping his eye on workers who don't have a grasp on traffic flow. Just the sheer thought of Jim standing at his office window in City Hall watching these workers kind of creeps me out. Kind of like Mr Burns, in a weird and twisted way...

[goodbye]

Jim Bourey is the City Manager for Greenville, not a member of the County Council, who voted down the GTA takeover. His quote regarding workers blocking detour routes was a very valid reply to a pointed concern that traffic flow is being hampered downtown. I know firsthand what the person was refering to. With so much road being torn up, you really need to have detours that aren't blocked, or else you need a good knowledge of the roads in the area so you can navigate a different route to arrive at your intended destination. Consider how many visitors come down to the park and really don't know their way around town. If they were to follow the detour signs only to realize that the provided path around the construction was blocked, they would be completely out of luck and have to find their own way around - which is not at all easy considering the location this construction is happening. Visitors are just as important as the business workers downtown, and it would be any city manager's job to ensure that unwanted obstacles such as these are avoided. Some contractors just aren't as thoughtful about the necessity to keep traffic flowing through certain portions of the city. I applaud Greenville's City Manager for doing his job while not looking to piss everyone off in the process. It is a very delicate process that must carefully be executed to ensure the overall success of the irritating, but necessary infrustructure improvements.

[RestedTraveler]

Oh, but you've gotta admit, the visual that jarvisj3 painted was hilarious, given the location of City Hall overlooking the intersection in question....

Admittedly, it's a pain in the arse to get to the Bowater Garage or 200 East Broad right now...or to anything in that vacinity.

Edited May 16, 2007 by RestedTraveler

[jarvismj]

I try, seriously. I just sit here at work all day long coming up with these ideas. Because working with Solaris and Oracle is only so exciting, I'm left to my creative device.

I realize that article was regarding the traffic in the intersection, and its just there is a lot that bothers me about that whole deal. I thought at first that it would be good to dissolve the system, but once I read that the county wouldn't put any more money toward the system, and in fact thinking that they could give it less just made me sick. If anything, get the Feds to oversee the system. Get some activists to raise enough of a stink, and just like the land deal, suddenly things might change. If you want better transit, say something, do something. We can't sit on our asses thinking that the GTA is going to evolve into something like the MBTA or CATS or MARTA. It's just not going to work that way.

[RestedTraveler]

...Because working with Solaris and Oracle is only so exciting, I'm left to my creative device.

Now you know why I spend so much time on U.P. and flickr. You should throw RAC and/or DataGuard into that mix and then pick up a half dozen other platforms while you're at it.

I still have no doubt that the transit system can be vastly improved here and I think participation by the City of Greenville would be a key to that. I really wish I had all of the answers for it, too, but the more I thought about it, the more the idea of the sudden push to dissolve the GTA and create a new transit system seemed absolutely fishy to me. It just smacked of taking that poor nerdy/ugly kid to the prom for all the wrong reasons (because his/her daddy was going to let you drive his Ferrari on the date rather than because you really liked him/her and saw potential for a lasting relationship, if not friendship, in them).

[jarvismj]

It just smacked of taking that poor nerdy/ugly kid to the prom for all the wrong reasons (because his/her daddy was going to let you drive his Ferrari on the date rather than because you really liked him/her and saw potential for a lasting relationship, if not friendship, in them).

Spending too much time watching 80's movies, RT, aren't you?

No, I concur with what you just said. It's just too fishy, and the whole West End land deal, compiled with the hotel on Wade Hampton, and the Breathe Easy campaign, its just seems like a lot that is blowing up in the media in Greenville, well, Jim is behind it. I mean, a lot of things I can understand. The hotel, but that should have been a police issue, and handled as such. These things just smack of land deals, and if he's doing it under the guise of "for the people" and not being straightforward, I'm going to be pissed. The fact is, I'm still a Greenville taxpayer, I never moved my residency from the city to North Andover MA. I pay my car taxes for the city, so I feel that I should have a say in the matter. I could care less about that smoking ban now, I've been a non smoker for 5 months now, but the way that things like that get fast tracked through city council, leaving almost no debate or input whatsoever to the citizens really made me do a double take. I think that the whole GTA deal was like 3 weeks from idea to vote...THREE WEEKS? something to me is amiss, and just because he along with Kirvin and others dropped the BRT keyword doesn't mean that it was going to happen. You can't get better services by cutting financing. It simply doesn't work that way.

[Spartan]

I think BRT will happen eventually. I hope that the powers at be understand that you need a functional bus system before you start investing in rapid transit of any kind. I am glad to see that the Council reversed their decision on eleminating GTA.

[vicupstate]

Spending too much time watching 80's movies, RT, aren't you?

No, I concur with what you just said. It's just too fishy, and the whole West End land deal, compiled with the hotel on Wade Hampton, and the Breathe Easy campaign, its just seems like a lot that is blowing up in the media in Greenville, well, Jim is behind it. I mean, a lot of things I can understand. The hotel, but that should have been a police issue, and handled as such. These things just smack of land deals, and if he's doing it under the guise of "for the people" and not being straightforward, I'm going to be pissed. The fact is, I'm still a Greenville taxpayer, I never moved my residency from the city to North Andover MA. I pay my car taxes for the city, so I feel that I should have a say in the matter. I could care less about that smoking ban now, I've been a non smoker for 5 months now, but the way that things like that get fast tracked through city council, leaving almost no debate or input whatsoever to the citizens really made me do a double take. I think that the whole GTA deal was like 3 weeks from idea to vote...THREE WEEKS? something to me is amiss, and just because he along with Kirvin and others dropped the BRT keyword doesn't mean that it was going to happen. You can't get better services by cutting financing. It simply doesn't work that way.

The city has a steller track record in my book, so why not let them try to run the transit system. There were a legion of naysayers that said 1) the Bilo Center should go to I-85 not DT, 2) the Camperdown bridge should not be removed 3) Baseball would never work in the West End 4) the city shouldn't buy the Palmetto Expo Center. In every case, the naysayers were proven wrong, and the city and it's leadership was proven right. Get over this anti-government cynicism and see that NEITHER the city or county planned to CUT funding, but to merely maintain the current level. Both bodies want to see the inefficiencies eliminated from the Transit system first, before adding more money. Sounds logical to me.

The 'hurry' was to get something approved before the NEW budget year starts, JULY 1 !!!

[GvilleSC]

since GTA is still in its same position, are there any plans to help it out? The one possible chance to do some good for Greenville public transportation is now out the door. I hope the county shot this down with some ideas up its sleeves because as it stands today, it's not going to cut it.

[GvilleSC]

I think BRT will happen eventually. I hope that the powers at be understand that you need a functional bus system before you start investing in rapid transit of any kind. I am glad to see that the Council reversed their decision on eleminating GTA.

There's where one of the problems stand with having voted this down, IMO. "Eventually". We had a great opportunity to prove that mass transit can work. Instead we're going to wait a little longer it seems. But development isn't going to wait. McChesney is going to happen with or without BRT, and we need it to be WITH. Doubling Woodruff Rd traffic would be insane and BRT is the best chance at keeping cars off of Woodruff Rd... Oh well, maybe the County *SHOULD* move their office to Woodruff Rd. If they want to help it get worse, then let them flounder in it.

[erm1981]

When we build our 9 story building I will be sure to wave at ol' Jimmy boy for all of you. Im sure he will get some good views of all of Harpers men....lol.

[whitehourseview]

The city has a steller track record in my book, so why not let them try to run the transit system. There were a legion of naysayers that said 1) the Bilo Center should go to I-85 not DT, 2) the Camperdown bridge should not be removed 3) Baseball would never work in the West End 4) the city shouldn't buy the Palmetto Expo Center. In every case, the naysayers were proven wrong, and the city and it's leadership was proven right. Get over this anti-government cynicism and see that NEITHER the city or county planned to CUT funding, but to merely maintain the current level. Both bodies want to see the inefficiencies eliminated from the Transit system first, before adding more money. Sounds logical to me.

The 'hurry' was to get something approved before the NEW budget year starts, JULY 1 !!!

I would argue that its largely the city's responsibility why there isn't this grand transit system that folks envision, and why the GTA is a very neglected, poor service.

You name some nice things: West End Field, the Bi-Lo Center, the Carolina First Center, etc.

In all those instances, the city was a conduit, a catalyst for making something happen, they were never the first nor the last cause.

Were it not for the Bomber/ Drive management, West End Field would still be a dream. Were it not for Carl Scheer's investors, we'd still be debating the 'coliseum', were it not lots of private interests, the city at best would be stuck with a white elephant with the purchase of the Expo Center/ New Textile Hall.

The city of Greenville isn't the perfect organization like it is made out to be and they've done their share of odd functions in relation to growth and city development.

[greenvillegrows]

Did they really just run off the management and then say "wait a minute, we don't want to take responsibility"?

I think the city's reasons to take over the GTA have been veiled. I think the county has been in the dark. I think that the city and county should have supported the existing organization.

But, to let it go so far as to wait until after management resigns and then to say "oh, we were just kidding?" What is going on?

Will the city and county step up and take responsibility for the destiny of the Greenville community when it comes to mass transit?

Recent GNews articles:

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