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Greenville Transit


jarvismj

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I'd give EVERY single latte I buy in a year to fund light rail / rapid rail, but I wouldn't give up a single one to fund buses.

Although fundamentally, I agree with you, I simply want to say one thing. This is Greenville.

You know as well as I do that we should implement at the very least the infrastructure for Light Rail or some other rail form of mass transit SOON. However, rationality tells me that this simply isn't going to happen. If the fairly progressive and liberal city of Seattle can't extend the monorail system, then we're never going to have light rail here in Greenville.

So, what are we left with? We're left with a bus system that few people want to ride and that isn't properly funded. If we ever have any hope to grow our mass transit and improve on it, we must start with what we currently have and ensure it's success. Perhaps part of that growth can be in purchasing new equipment that uses alternative fuels that don't pollute? The transfers required are a result of whomever decides the routes, really. Perhaps some investments can be made in dedicated lanes for buses (such as the downtown shuttle that circulates through downtown Orlando) or rights of way for express buses? The speed from point A to point B I'll grant you could be a problem, especially if there are no dedicated lanes or rights of way. Additionally, reliablility is something that will always be a problem (schedule-wise) with buses, for the same reason. Most of these are things that can be addressed, given we as a community place some importance on mass transit.

Then again, if we placed an importance on it the way we really should, we'd be buying up rights of way and putting infrastructure in place for light rail. :rolleyes:

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I agree that light rail is much better, and provides a service that most everyone is open to using. As gsupstate pointed out, the same is not true of buses.

My reasons for suggesting that GTA become fare-free on buses are the following:

1. Buses are currently all we have in terms of mass transit. We do not have light rail yet, and even if we started planning today for construction and routes, it would be years before it became a reality.

2. An extensive bus system will be needed, even (especially?) when light rail arrives here. It seems that cities with good light rail systems are supported by good bus systems. Example: when I lived in DC, if I wanted to use light rail I had to take a bus from where I lived in Georgetown to Dupont Circle. This is because Georgetown does not have a metro station. If I had wanted to ride the metro, but no bus service was available, it would be impossible - there are no park and ride facilities that far into the city, and taking a cab to the Metro station defeats the purpose. What I found is that a wider cross-section of people took buses in DC, simply because it was often the best way to get from where you live to the closest metro station.

3. Showing that we have high bus ridership helps our case when lobbying the federal government for light rail funds. It shows that we have the demand and population base to support light rail.

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Do people in places like Pelzer and Marietta know what a latte is?

...

Not too long ago, Metro.m posted a chart of where activity on this forum had originated (where people were logging onto UP), and I recall that Pelzer was surprisingly pretty high on the list. My guess is that more and more people living out in the 'burbs are being attracted to the growing activity happening in downtown Greenville. We already know that there are a decent amount of people who want to live in a rural setting not too far from the city, so the idea of mass transit lines running well beyond the interior suburbs is not totally ridiculous. I wonder what people living in Honea Path (one of the wealthiest parts of the state per capita) would think of the idea?

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..... The U.S. should bite the bullet, take lessons from our European counterparts and establish light rail systems in all major metros, and quit dinking around with bus systems. I don't know any rail systems in a US city that isn't successful, but I can name numerous cities bus systems that are in jeopardy.

Europeans are much more willing to use city buses and they are widely used in Europe. London for example is full of buses because the tube network doesn't go everywhere in the city. As far as failed rail systems in the USA I would say that Jacksonville, Burlington VT, and Detroit could be considered failures. I would also add Miami to the list given the low ridership on such an expensive heavy rail system. The Los Angeles Red Line is another example of a line that hasn't gone anywhere despite the huge amounts of money spent on it. The LRT in Buffalo NY hasn't done much either.

The point is that people won't use a transit line just because it is built. There have to be reasons for them to take the time to get onto these things and use them. When that exists people will ride rail and/or buses. Ridership on the Charlotte bus system is 22M/year for example and continues to rise every year.

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I'd give EVERY single latte I buy in a year to fund light rail / rapid rail, but I wouldn't give up a single one to fund buses.

An effective transit system won't have one without the other. Even in "mass transit utopias", buses play a vital role. You simply cannot provide rail transit to everyone without having some kind of flexible supplemental transit.

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How about a Mass Transit system that serves lattes! Maybe their is an "untapped" market in producing biofuel from used coffee grounds! Imagine the cool exhaust! :ph34r:

Now that would make riding the bus cool! Could you imagine the contact buzz that people would get from a passing bus? They'd best use decaf grounds to produce this biofuel of yours. :lol:

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How about a Mass Transit system that serves lattes! Maybe their is an "untapped" market in producing biofuel from used coffee grounds! Imagine the cool exhaust! :ph34r:

I'm not positive, but the MetroNorth in NYC used to have a "bar" on the longer trains. Commuter rail with a buzz. Works for me.

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Wow, impressive. What is it that Charlotte has done to make it so popular?

Some of the things they have done:

  • Invested in equipment and facilities. There is a transit center downtown and numerous smaller transit centers in the outlying areas.
  • They have worked to build an extensive Express bus system to the suburbs. Along with this they have worked with the surrounding counties to get them to participate in the system. Express buses go to Iredell, Lincoln, Union, Cabarrus, Gaston and York (SC) counties. Each of these counties funds CATS for the service.
  • On many of the mainline routes wait times are 10 minutes or less.
  • They have installed a large number of seated areas for buses.
  • Invested in technology. A few of the buses for example are hybrids.
  • There are village riders in some of the towns. Here in Huntersville it costs 25 cents to ride the bus and you can call ahead for them to vary the route by up to 1/2 mile to pick you up if need be.
  • They have guarantees on service. You can even get a free ride home twice/month in case you miss the last bus.

You can see a system map here.

It's an example of a bus system that does work. I was out over Christmas and noted numerous buses that were packed with people.

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Wow, impressive. What is it that Charlotte has done to make it so popular?

monsoon is right on point; plus, Charlotte has:

1) a large central business district with little free parking and a large pool of office workers

2) bad traffic

3) a rapidly increasing population and

4) transit agency focus on upgrading service in the city's main corridors, where it can compete

Greenville arguably has 1)-3) but in each case to a lesser extent than Charlotte, and Charlotte also has had a mayor and a populace (among others) that have consistently supported mass transit spending.

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The number one problem IMO is that Greenville County doesnt want to invest as it should. Greenville, Spartanburg, and Anderson all suffer from relatively low densities and scattered/decentralized business areas. As it stands today, the bus system will only be effective for some. But once again, if there is no money to funf the system how can it be expected to provide quality service?

One of the major advantages of a car is that its ready to go when you are. I guarantee you that if GTA offered 10 minute service all over, people would be much more likely to take it, because they won't have to wait on it.

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The city ought to disband the current board and make the GTA a city department that reports directly to the city council. This is a step in the wrong direction towards eventually getting rail transit in the city.

I totally agree. With what Knox White and Butch Kirven said, there seems to obviously be something going on with GTA behind the scenes that they are not telling the general public about, which isn't good.

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The city ought to disband the current board and make the GTA a city department that reports directly to the city council. This is a step in the wrong direction towards eventually getting rail transit in the city.

Amen to that! If not the City Council, then the County Council as the GTA would have to both serve and be funded by residents well beyond the city limits.

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I don't think that would solve GTA's financial problems. GTA needs more from both the City and the County governments. At what point will people demand change? Will GTA have to be erased from existance first? It may take a CARTA-like experience for Greenville to wake up. Its an embarassment for an otherwise successful communtiy to not have quality transit service.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Transportation improvement plan 2007-2012: http://www.greenvilleplanning.com/transpor.../2007%20TIP.pdf

-Be sure to check out page 11 and it will show one that says "Greenville multi-modal transit center" with funding next to it through the year 2009.

It's actually page 22 for anyone looking for it. :thumbsup: Do you think this means it will be another 3 years before it's built or even drawn up and planned? I was hoping for something a little sooner...

Edited by GvilleSC
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